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      09-15-2020, 04:07 PM   #1
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Full PPF / Rear Diffuser Question

I was just quoted a full ppf without the rear diffuser. When I asked why the rear diffuser was not included in the quote the installer replied that the cost was not worth the install as it had little to no risk of being damaged. They also informed me it would take roughly 10 pieces to wrap the diffuser itself.

Question for those who ppf'ed their m2 cs... Did you also wrap that rear diffuser?

Any insight on ppf is welcomed.
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      09-15-2020, 05:48 PM   #2
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I dont think I've wrapped the diffuser on any of my cars
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      09-15-2020, 08:14 PM   #3
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When I had the port paint my m performance diffusor that was custom painted on my old F31, I was worried, then the PPF guy said it was almost impossible, I relented, it's not worth it.
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      09-16-2020, 10:43 AM   #4
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You guys worry at all about having paint get pulled during install or PPF replacement at all? I was talking to my detailer (who does Pebble Beach, Monterey and other shows among plenty of high dollar and volume stuff) and he mentioned it's pretty common with PPF to have it pull paint, especially during replacement. He still seemed to recommend it, but I was surprised how high the risk was.

EDIT: See post from installer below - apparently not an issue for factory paints. Just on some crappy repaints.
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      09-16-2020, 11:00 AM   #5
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No- not unless the panel has been repainted and isnít oem - the adhesion of the ppf is not stronger than the adhesion of the paint to the surface. Iíve had st least 3 panels of ppf replaced on my m3 with no problem
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      09-16-2020, 11:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3 View Post
No- not unless the panel has been repainted and isnít oem - the adhesion of the ppf is not stronger than the adhesion of the paint to the surface. Iíve had st least 3 panels of ppf replaced on my m3 with no problem
Good to know the BMW paint holds up... he said the Tesla paint and much of the Ferrari paint is awful and comes off. He did mention that repaint was also higher risk.
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      09-16-2020, 04:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
When I had the port paint my m performance diffusor that was custom painted on my old F31, I was worried, then the PPF guy said it was almost impossible, I relented, it's not worth it.
Thanks for the info.
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      09-16-2020, 07:27 PM   #8
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PPF doesn't lift original paint upon removal, no matter what type of "high end" car. What a bunch of BS posted here ^

That said, of course one would never attempt to cover a rear diffuser. wtf, let's use some common sense here...
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      09-16-2020, 08:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
PPF doesn't lift original paint upon removal, no matter what type of "high end" car. What a bunch of BS posted here ^

That said, of course one would never attempt to cover a rear diffuser. wtf, let's use some common sense here...
What do you base this on? My detailer literally works on 10s of millions of dollars worth of cars a year. He's seen and had to deal with all sort of crazy things. I'm going to trust his word that it happens. I have no personal knowledge or exposure to what/when it happens. As I indicated before, he still recommends and has PPF installed on client cars. So it's not like he says "don't do it."

I also have a racing friend who used basic clear poly film at autocross to protect the car and it pulled the paint off a stock Hyundai Genesis. So that's another person I know first hand that has experienced paint pull with vinyl application as well.

EDIT: See comment from installer further down about it being a non-issue.
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      09-19-2020, 08:30 AM   #10
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I used ceramic pro two layers before applying my full Xpel PPF for paint correction and just in case during removal. Cost just slightly more.
As to the rear diffuser, they will have a cut available soon so the installer doesnít have to cut by hand. Currently I put 4 layers of ceramic pro on until the cut is ready.
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      09-20-2020, 07:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikli View Post
I used ceramic pro two layers before applying my full Xpel PPF for paint correction and just in case during removal. Cost just slightly more.
As to the rear diffuser, they will have a cut available soon so the installer doesn’t have to cut by hand. Currently I put 4 layers of ceramic pro on until the cut is ready.
Ceramic coating underneath underneath PPF is nothing but a waste of money. Same goes for paint correction when applying PPF. Ceramic coating will only lessen the PPF's adhesive qualities. You may think this will help removal when it is only inhibiting adhesion. Ceramic will do nothing to inhibit chips.

I absolutely get PPF, have had many cars protected and know many people who have done the same. I've been fortunate to work with, arguably, three of the best installers in the country. I'm all about having the best installer use the right product(s), but this ^ process only fattens the installer's wallet. Ceramic coating, if used, should go atop the film.

Golden rule: PPF is only as good as the person installing it...
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      09-20-2020, 08:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Ceramic coating underneath underneath PPF is nothing but a waste of money. Same goes for paint correction when applying PPF. Ceramic coating will only lessen the PPF's adhesive qualities. You may think this will help removal when it is only inhibiting adhesion. Ceramic will do nothing to inhibit chips.

I absolutely get PPF, have had many cars protected and know many people who have done the same. I've been fortunate to work with, arguably, three of the best installers in the country. I'm all about having the best installer use the right product(s), but this ^ process only fattens the installer's wallet. Ceramic coating, if used, should go atop the film.

Golden rule: PPF is only as good as the person installing it...
This is an interesting topic. I would have thought paint correction before ppf would be an improvement due to reduction in light scatter.
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      09-22-2020, 01:40 PM   #13
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What was the cost of the quote for full PPF? Thinking about it myself. Any recommendations on PPF and/or Mid-Atlantic installers would be welcome. New to the PPF world. Thanks

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      09-22-2020, 02:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george.ax View Post
What was the cost of the quote for full PPF? Thinking about it myself. Any recommendations on PPF and/or Mid-Atlantic installers would be welcome. New to the PPF world. Thanks

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I was quoted around 5,000 to 6,000 from various installers. Suntek Ultra being slightly cheaper compared to Xpel Ultimate Plus.

From what I was told (not verified) Suntek is clearer and Xpel has more of an orange peel effect however Xpel will heal itself at a lower temperature compared to Suntek.

I decided to go with Suntek and I will not be wrapping the rear diffuser. Should receive the car with the ppf application installed near the end of October.
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      09-22-2020, 03:24 PM   #15
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I own a PPF business and I have won 8 international medals for my installation skill.

Here are the FACTS based off my 13 years experience doing installs.

Ppf will only lift paint on poor repaints. However I've installed and removed PPF over many repaints that were no issue upon removal.

The only bad PPF is over seas crap. Stick to the US manufacturers. XPEL and Suntek. I exclusively use XPEL after installing and winning awards with both XPEL and Suntek I can tell the world XPEL is better.
Stek is trash. Kaavcha trash, 3m trash, flexishield trash.


Tesla and Ferrari do have crappy OEM paint. BMW and Porsche are the best.

Diffusers are a total PITA without patterns. On my m performance diffuser I just covered the areas closest to the rear tire and ceramic coated it.
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      09-22-2020, 04:09 PM   #16
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Thanks for chiming in with your experience. As an installer I'd take it as stronger than from a detailer too! I added notes to my posts above to reflect your info. Thanks!
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      09-22-2020, 04:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWC-F87 View Post
I own a PPF business and I have won 8 international medals for my installation skill.

Here are the FACTS based off my 13 years experience doing installs.

Ppf will only lift paint on poor repaints. However I've installed and removed PPF over many repaints that were no issue upon removal.

The only bad PPF is over seas crap. Stick to the US manufacturers. XPEL and Suntek. I exclusively use XPEL after installing and winning awards with both XPEL and Suntek I can tell the world XPEL is better.
Stek is trash. Kaavcha trash, 3m trash, flexishield trash.


Tesla and Ferrari do have crappy OEM paint. BMW and Porsche are the best.

Diffusers are a total PITA without patterns. On my m performance diffuser I just covered the areas closest to the rear tire and ceramic coated it.
Care to expand on why your opinions on each various brands? No offense but from a bystander POV, it could look like you're just promoting the brand you have a partnership with (XPEL)
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      09-22-2020, 05:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
This is an interesting topic. I would have thought paint correction before ppf would be an improvement due to reduction in light scatter.
This....please explain why you wouldn't want to remove swirls and scratches before laying down the PPF
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      09-22-2020, 05:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWC-F87 View Post
I own a PPF business and I have won 8 international medals for my installation skill.

Here are the FACTS based off my 13 years experience doing installs.

Ppf will only lift paint on poor repaints. However I've installed and removed PPF over many repaints that were no issue upon removal.

The only bad PPF is over seas crap. Stick to the US manufacturers. XPEL and Suntek. I exclusively use XPEL after installing and winning awards with both XPEL and Suntek I can tell the world XPEL is better.
Stek is trash. Kaavcha trash, 3m trash, flexishield trash.

Tesla and Ferrari do have crappy OEM paint. BMW and Porsche are the best.

Diffusers are a total PITA without patterns. On my m performance diffuser I just covered the areas closest to the rear tire and ceramic coated it.
I've had Xpel Ultimate on my last three cars and would agree.

No need for paint correction. Neither of the top shops used feel it is necessary unless there is some blatant correction needed.
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      09-22-2020, 05:41 PM   #20
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The top shops always require paint correction under PPF. Even new cars require paint correction. I can't imagine anyone reputable would install PPF without it.

My local shop charges around $6K to $7K for full vehicle wrap (and correction) and only uses XPEL Ultimate PPF.
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      09-22-2020, 08:23 PM   #21
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Iím OCD with my paint if I could. If you are not so detailed with the finish then just get the PPF and save your hard earned money. The films will help with some better road debris paint chips protection on the road or track time. Question: How much car could you repaint for $6-7k?!
Anyways, I would choose the best installer that cares about their work and donít go for the bargain. This will go a long way for you.
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      09-23-2020, 12:20 AM   #22
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I am the top shop In Southern CA. I have 3 gold medals, 3 silver and 2 bronze. I have 13 years of experience. Any point I make is based off hands on experience. I'm not here to argue with anyone, push my company or products. Just share my experience hopefully for the better good of you all and help provide real world facts that may help you make a more educated decision for your purchases. This is something I am very very passionate about and my industry is my life's work.

If a car is super hammered with swirls then I would encourage the customer to do paint correction. Otherwise if it's random isolated swirls and maring then PPF will 100% hide it. Ppf will hide up to 1500 grit sanding marks on black in direct sunlight.
On a brand new car rolled off the lot 99% of people won't be able to tell if correction was done prior to a full body install. Now if it's a brand new car and say only getting the front clip and the customer is keen to what swirls look like on a dark car then it may be best to correct the back half.

As far as the different manufacturers go. I tell people the only true bad film will fit one of the following categories. If it was installed bad. If the manufacturer doesn't stand behind their product. Lastly the only bad film is the one you don't put on your vehicle! Ppf works the best to keep factory paint preserved while allowing us to rip on our cars and enjoy them without completely thrashing them.

XPEL has top notch support. They stand behind their products like no one else. The dap is the best pattern data base money can buy (only available now to 100% XPEL shops). Lastly XPEL has a really good film. It's the total trifecta.

If you guys want more of my professional installer opinion on why I feel XPEL is the best film from a technical installer standpoint I'd be happy to go into more detail.

OP- about your diffuser. For the m-performance rear carbon diffuser no one makes a template to plot the PPF. Therefore it's a fully bulk install. In my opinion it's not worth the man hours spent to do it custom and handmade a bunch of pieces for something that won't likely get damaged.

For all the super cars crazy diffusers we have patterns. 720s, SVJ, 600lt, 650 and so on. I bought my carbon diffuser from a customer and it didn't have a single Nick on it after track days and good amount of driving. So honestly i wouldn't stress it.

If I was to completely wrap one I would charge $500 and it would take at least 3 hours.

I hope that helps guys
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