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      09-16-2020, 10:08 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Tell us how you really feel in all seriousness there is much truth to this. The 1M was a parts bin hodgepodge that "shouldn't have happened." And that's what gave it instant cool factor. Combine this with a price tag that allowed all the peasants to drive one and it's a recipe for success.

It's the peasants that create the fervor that launch things into desirability. You need numbers to drive momentum. Do I think the 1M is truly collectible? Nope, it's just increased in value because of created buzz and it's still in peasant pricing territory. A $20k gain over 20yrs for a 50k investment is a shitty investment. A 20k gain on an unpredictable depreciating asset is just winning a small lottery. I wouldn't consider the powerball an investment strategy.

The M2C will be the car that gets the attention because, you guessed it, it's going to be cheaper than the CS and provide more bang for the buck. It will be more affordable to a larger audience. The CS will hold value to a much smaller audience. The reason why the current CS buyer's are not buying a C? They want a CS.

There's a difference between collectible and desirable.

If your planning to buy a CS for collectability or desirability, then your buying for the wrong reasons

And don't get butthurt about the peasant reference. Everyone is a peasant to someone else.
Honestly one of the things pushing me to buy the m2 cs is the fact that as my m3 comp has depreciated, I've seen the car become more available to people and while I think its awesome that more people can drive a nice car, I'd like to have something i don't see on the road all the time. The M3s are unfortunately always going to be like this because its mass produced, offered in aggressive leasing, etc

I'd love to go to cars and coffee with an M2 cs, might see 1 or 2, if any in my area

After much back and forth and losing an allocation in my city - I found the car again 8 hours away and I think I'm ready to put a deposit on it in the morning for a week 46 build.

I'm upset that I'm going to trade in my mint m3 comp at a bargain with 8-10k miles in January and full PPF, but I don't want to miss out on this car and regret it later.
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      09-16-2020, 10:19 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3 View Post
Honestly one of the things pushing me to buy the m2 cs is the fact that as my m3 comp has depreciated, I've seen the car become more available to people and while I think its awesome that more people can drive a nice car, I'd like to have something i don't see on the road all the time. The M3s are unfortunately always going to be like this because its mass produced, offered in aggressive leasing, etc

I'd love to go to cars and coffee with an M2 cs, might see 1 or 2, if any in my area

After much back and forth and losing an allocation in my city - I found the car again 8 hours away and I think I'm ready to put a deposit on it in the morning for a week 46 build.

I'm upset that I'm going to trade in my mint m3 comp at a bargain with 8-10k miles in January and full PPF, but I don't want to miss out on this car and regret it later.
Not sure where you are located, but I think you can get that rarity with just a regular M2/M2C. I see M3/4s all the time and it's getting annoying. I rarely see an M2/M2C...especially in MGM for the OG M2 and SO for the M2C. I think the M3/4 got so powerful that it drew M5 buyers down and got so mainstream that it drew MB/Audi buyers over, all the while retaining most of the traditional M3 crowd. The logical continuation of that in the G8x will likely see quite a few of that third group fall off.
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      09-16-2020, 10:25 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
I thought I saw a note from someone else along the way that PCD was blocked on the M2CS for some reason. Not sure if that was you, or an early glitch or what. But I remember seeing that come up. Did you find PCD with someone?
My SA said the same thing at first, M2 CS not eligible for PCD. So I contacted the performance center and they said it is, same as any BMW.

I feel like what's happening here is some inexperienced SAs confusing PCD with ED, thinking they're going to lose money on the deal if they do PCD like they did with ED, which is not the case. PCD does not cost the dealership or SA anything, BMW NA pays for it completely. Unlike ED which came at a major cost to the dealership which is why they all refused to do them which is why the program died.
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      09-16-2020, 10:50 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by DarkstarZero View Post
My SA said the same thing at first, M2 CS not eligible for PCD. So I contacted the performance center and they said it is, same as any BMW.

I feel like what's happening here is some inexperienced SAs confusing PCD with ED, thinking they're going to lose money on the deal if they do PCD like they did with ED, which is not the case. PCD does not cost the dealership or SA anything, BMW NA pays for it completely. Unlike ED which came at a major cost to the dealership which is why they all refused to do them which is why the program died.
Yup...but the PCD car doesn't get to sit in the showroom for oglers to drool over before you get there.
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      09-17-2020, 06:27 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
Not sure where you are located, but I think you can get that rarity with just a regular M2/M2C. I see M3/4s all the time and it's getting annoying. I rarely see an M2/M2C...especially in MGM for the OG M2 and SO for the M2C. I think the M3/4 got so powerful that it drew M5 buyers down and got so mainstream that it drew MB/Audi buyers over, all the while retaining most of the traditional M3 crowd. The logical continuation of that in the G8x will likely see quite a few of that third group fall off.
We see about 3:1 more M2s at cars and coffee in my area over late model M3/M4s. So it probably varies a lot by area. I have never seen a SO M2 in person though, I'll give you that!
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      09-17-2020, 09:54 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
We see about 3:1 more M2s at cars and coffee in my area over late model M3/M4s. So it probably varies a lot by area. I have never seen a SO M2 in person though, I'll give you that!
Precisely why that's the color I've ordered. I saw just one driving around where I am in Southern California for a couple months earlier this year and then it just disappeared. LBB, HS, BSM and AW are somewhat common sightings, though nowhere near the M3/4 sightings.
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      09-17-2020, 10:12 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
Precisely why that's the color I've ordered. I saw just one driving around where I am in Southern California for a couple months earlier this year and then it just disappeared. LBB, HS, BSM and AW are somewhat common sightings, though nowhere near the M3/4 sightings.
MB will definately be a rare sighting in the M2 world. I suspect only half in the US (233) will be MB. HS (116) BSM (70) AW (47)

AW with CCB is going to be a super rare combination. Add in the factory gold wheels and I bet there are less than 10 in that spec. Will be interesting to see how the numbers unfold.

I'd be surprised if the CCB take rate is higher than 25% ~ (116) cars.

Putting things into perspective there are going to be very few options in all the colors, wheel, and brake combinations. If there were a further 50/50 split of gold/black wheels then your likelihood of running into another car in your spec is very slim.
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      09-17-2020, 10:19 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
MB will definately be a rare sighting in the M2 world. I suspect only half in the US (233) will be MB. HS (116) BSM (70) AW (47)

AW with CCB is going to be a super rare combination. Add in the factory gold wheels and I bet there are less than 10 in that spec. Will be interesting to see how the numbers unfold.

I'd be surprised if the CCB take rate is higher than 25% ~ (116) cars.

Putting things into perspective there are going to be very few options in all the colors, wheel, and brake combinations. If there were a further 50/50 split of gold/black wheels then your likelihood of running into another car in your spec is very slim.
I think the MB/Gold/Steel/Manual, (my spec) will be the "common" spec among the cars. Which will still be <200.
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      09-17-2020, 10:36 AM   #317
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I just ordered mine (no markup) for week 45 production and I considered the CCBs but, at $8,500, it just didn't seem worth it. Having said that, if I had really wanted the gold wheels, it would be tempting just for the reduction or elimination of dust. It's not as obvious with black wheels.
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      09-17-2020, 12:27 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by jlee View Post

There are so many unspoken for allocations out there. There will be be inventory when they are delivered and inevitably discounts. Anyone buying at msrp now is really just paying for the privilege of “day one” cars.
This...

Not trying to burst any bubbles but I would caution those talking about these in collectability/investment terms that there are a ton of MSRP allocations available. A ton. That says something about the near term trajectory of these cars. They will be at dealers and sell at a discount in the near term. The fact that I could get half a dozen MSRP allocations today without really trying speaks volumes!

For those trying to minimize depreciation though the purchase price matters just as much as sale price at exit. I would wait. There will be dealers sitting on these in Jan/Feb/March willing to sell for a meaningful discount. Remember that there was hype around the M3/4 CS at first too. People ended up leasing 102k M3 CS’ for Basically 20% off at 700/month. Not saying these will do that poorly but don’t get swept up in the hype when the signs are pointing to this not being as in demand as bimmerpost would make it seem.
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      09-17-2020, 12:38 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John4C View Post
This...

Not trying to burst any bubbles but I would caution those talking about these in collectability/investment terms that there are a ton of MSRP allocations available. A ton. That says something about the near term trajectory of these cars. They will be at dealers and sell at a discount in the near term. The fact that I could get half a dozen MSRP allocations today without really trying speaks volumes!

For those trying to minimize depreciation though the purchase price matters just as much as sale price at exit. I would wait. There will be dealers sitting on these in Jan/Feb/March willing to sell for a meaningful discount. Remember that there was hype around the M3/4 CS at first too. People ended up leasing 102k M3 CS’ for Basically 20% off at 700/month. Not saying these will do that poorly but don’t get swept up in the hype when the signs are pointing to this not being as in demand as bimmerpost would make it seem.
I hope this isn't the case, but you may be right. Agree that I jumped in early because of the fit this car is for me and didn't want to risk not getting one. Being an early adopter is usually not the best move when a good deal is the top priority.
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      09-17-2020, 12:45 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John4C View Post
This...
Based on what though. Just because someone says it doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it not true. I'm genuinely curious how many allocations are claimed/unclaimed. To me right now people just claiming things from one side or the other is just random internet posturing either way.

The rest of your points though are just sound advice. Trying to time any car for market is like timing the stock market - a very very bad idea.
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      09-17-2020, 12:47 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John4C View Post
This...

Not trying to burst any bubbles but I would caution those talking about these in collectability/investment terms that there are a ton of MSRP allocations available. A ton. That says something about the near term trajectory of these cars. They will be at dealers and sell at a discount in the near term. The fact that I could get half a dozen MSRP allocations today without really trying speaks volumes!

For those trying to minimize depreciation though the purchase price matters just as much as sale price at exit. I would wait. There will be dealers sitting on these in Jan/Feb/March willing to sell for a meaningful discount. Remember that there was hype around the M3/4 CS at first too. People ended up leasing 102k M3 CS’ for Basically 20% off at 700/month. Not saying these will do that poorly but don’t get swept up in the hype when the signs are pointing to this not being as in demand as bimmerpost would make it seem.
I think there's a lot of residual memory of both the 1M and the initial OG M2 launches lingering around. I can't remember exactly, but wasn't a fully loaded and soaking wet 2016 M2 like $55k? People were paying $5-20k over and the used ones, at least for a couple years, held really well. Then production ramped up and the M2C came along. The M2 CS is cool, but it's not going to blow the automotive world's socks off like the M2 did and it's certainly not a back corner of the M warehouse skunkworks project like the 1M was.
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      09-17-2020, 01:03 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
I think there's a lot of residual memory of both the 1M and the initial OG M2 launches lingering around. I can't remember exactly, but wasn't a fully loaded and soaking wet 2016 M2 like $55k? People were paying $5-20k over and the used ones, at least for a couple years, held really well. Then production ramped up and the M2C came along. The M2 CS is cool, but it's not going to blow the automotive world's socks off like the M2 did and it's certainly not a back corner of the M warehouse skunkworks project like the 1M was.
I think people are forgetting just how few 400 cars are though too.
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      09-17-2020, 01:25 PM   #323
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I think people are forgetting just how few 400 cars are though too.
I agree with you for the long term...especially for the 6MT cars. But how many of those will truly survive without abuse, destruction or mileage? I guess that's a bit self-fulfilling.
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      09-17-2020, 01:28 PM   #324
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I think people are forgetting just how few 400 cars are though too.
It's a staggeringly small amount when compared to the production run of an average car. Take a look at the x3/x5 numbers. Even other M numbers are fairly large in comparison.

466 cars produced over 3mo, during one model year for 331 million people. The global amount of 2200 cars is a lot, but that number is meaningless if you can't get your hands on them to own.

This is not to say that it's collectable as there is a much smaller percentage of the population interested in this car. BUT it is a special car no matter how you want to slice it.
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      09-17-2020, 01:32 PM   #325
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my $.02. I few more actual owner driving reviews would help those ' on the fence' to decide. Also 466 cars is not a lot. There may be a few out there in Jan / Feb but all will be gone by March
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      09-17-2020, 01:58 PM   #326
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I agree with you for the long term...especially for the 6MT cars. But how many of those will truly survive without abuse, destruction or mileage? I guess that's a bit self-fulfilling.
Right, a few years on it'll be less than 400 left.

Now, rare doesn't mean desirable or valuable though. So it doesn't guarantee or in any way predict what the value of the car will actually be. No way at this point to have any confidence in 5 years if this car is worth 30k, 50k , 80k, or 100k. I'm pretty confident it'll be worth slightly more than an M2C. Now that slightly more being 2K or 10K, or more. Dunno. Just fractionally more at a minimum. Just confident it'll never be worth less than an M2C.
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      09-17-2020, 02:56 PM   #327
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Forgetting about long term residual value for a moment, why wouldn't the limited availability, and consequent difficulty of obtaining a CS, mirror the experience we had with the introduction of the 1M? As I recall there were only about 740 cars imported to the US vs 466 M2 CS's. There were lists at many if not most dealerships and I think most people were happy to buy one at MSRP.
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      09-17-2020, 03:05 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
Forgetting about long term residual value for a moment, why wouldn't the limited availability, and consequent difficulty of obtaining a CS, mirror the experience we had with the introduction of the 1M? As I recall there were only about 740 cars imported to the US vs 466 M2 CS's. There were lists at many if not most dealerships and I think most people were happy to buy one at MSRP.
People like to shit on shit they can't have. The CS will do fine. It will depreciate, but slower than most. That doesn't mean it will slow an initial hit, but that the floor for loss is higher.
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      09-17-2020, 03:07 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by JohnVa1M View Post
Forgetting about long term residual value for a moment, why wouldn't the limited availability, and consequent difficulty of obtaining a CS, mirror the experience we had with the introduction of the 1M? As I recall there were only about 740 cars imported to the US vs 466 M2 CS's. There were lists at many if not most dealerships and I think most people were happy to buy one at MSRP.
The view of some on here is that the CS isn't very special or different compared to the M2C, and is overpriced. Thus nobody will want it unlike the 1M.

Otherwise, what Dave said.
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      09-17-2020, 03:17 PM   #330
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It is worth noting that not all who will pounce on an M2CS frequent internet forums. I'm willing to bet a good percentage aren't even necessarily BMW loyalists. Hell, I met a guy that has one who openly admitted he got one because his son thought it was cool.

I don't think a few cars sitting around show-rooms for a bit will have a long term negative impact. The M2 is already a classic. That goes double for the M2C. The M2CS will never be a bargain on the used market. If the day ever comes that you have to sell your M2CS, you'll probably be just fine. Well... except for the poor SOB's paying a fat dealer mark-up on top of crazy-high sales tax. Don't even get me started on registration fees.

Last edited by hansomatic; 09-25-2020 at 03:45 AM..
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