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      08-19-2020, 02:40 PM   #89
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I understand, but what I was hoping for was the late production units for the USA would be MY2021, wishful thinking isn't it! I am not saying that BMW should produce more than 2,200 for additional MY 2021, hope that makes sense!!
The ordering guide for the US model shows a start of production as 03/2020, so they've probably been trickling out a few here and there for a while.
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      08-19-2020, 02:44 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
The ordering guide for the US model shows a start of production as 03/2020, so they've probably been trickling out a few here and there for a while.
It was for the model itself, but not for the US models at least to anything anyone on here is aware of at all.
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      08-19-2020, 02:44 PM   #91
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M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
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      08-19-2020, 02:47 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
As covered in this and multiple other threads:

GTS 4.0 is more expensive by 10's of thousands than CS when you actually option it.
Doesn't have back seat for those that are interested/need it
1st and 2nd gear suck (too long to be fun legally)

That's the super short version.
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      08-19-2020, 03:17 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
There is some truth to what you are saying here, but the E46 CSL is worlds apart from the base M3 ZCP. The CS is ultimately not very different from the Competition. If this were an actual CSL model priced as it is, I don't think anyone would complain.
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      08-19-2020, 03:23 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I understand, but what I was hoping for was the late production units for the USA would be MY2021, wishful thinking isn't it! I am not saying that BMW should produce more than 2,200 for additional MY 2021, hope that makes sense!!
The ordering guide for the US model shows a start of production as 03/2020, so they've probably been trickling out a few here and there for a while.
I hope that's not the case ND40oz, because they're all should be special order to specs, since they're limited production!!
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      08-19-2020, 03:36 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
There is some truth to what you are saying here, but the E46 CSL is worlds apart from the base M3 ZCP. The CS is ultimately not very different from the Competition. If this were an actual CSL model priced as it is, I don't think anyone would complain.

I agree: CSL was exceptional

M2 CS drawn from the Motorsport parts bank

nonetheless, M2 CS is the ultimate M2 combining everything one could wish on an M2 and the future M2 G87 may be disappointing

M2 CS is probably the last of a great line and as such deserves to join the club of the best BMW /// M
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      08-19-2020, 03:39 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Harris sells his M2 Competition for an M2 CS
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      08-19-2020, 03:51 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I hope that's not the case ND40oz, because they're all should be special order to specs, since they're limited production!!
That's the official start of the production model year for the vehicle. Because it's a 2020, production has to end in December. Whether or not any US models were produced between March and July, we'll probably never know unless someone starts going through VINs and checking for them. I'd guess that there would be at least a few though before the actual customer cars started coming down the line.
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      08-19-2020, 04:12 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
M2 CS is not going to have 0% depreciation in 4 years, let's be realistic.
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      08-19-2020, 04:33 PM   #99
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Quote:
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M2 CS is not going to have 0% depreciation in 4 years, let's be realistic.
M2 CS will keep a good rating without a doubt

a little history: CSL was worth 90 k € in 2004
It was worth 50 k € in 2008-2009 to be worth 70-90 k € today
it is however the best / // M produced at only 1358 units

so let's savor the chance to be able to enjoy an M2 CS without constantly worrying about depreciation!
G87 M2 may make you regret M2 CS ...
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      08-19-2020, 04:53 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
M2 CS is not going to have 0% depreciation in 4 years, let's be realistic.
Lol. Very true. Production numbers being limited doesn't make a car immune to depreciation. Maybe for some marque brands, but not for the CS. The F8X CS were somewhat limited in production I believe? I don't think those cars were not affected by depreciation.


The depreciation may end up not being as high as the M2C, but to assume it will not is illogical. And I still believe that we still have not even begun to witness the true economic impact of the current pandemic as well, particularly on the consumer side. But wtf do I know. I'm an idiot. Disregard this post lol
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      08-19-2020, 05:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Lol. Very true. Production numbers being limited doesn't make a car immune to depreciation. Maybe for some marque brands, but not for the CS. The F8X CS were somewhat limited in production I believe? I don't think those cars were not affected by depreciation.


The depreciation may end up not being as high as the M2C, but to assume it will not is illogical. And I still believe that we still have not even begun to witness the true economic impact of the current pandemic as well, particularly on the consumer side. But wtf do I know. I'm an idiot. Disregard this post lol
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      08-19-2020, 05:53 PM   #102
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Somehow I think Chris still prefers his 1M to his M2c

Regardless clearly this new M2cs is extremely good even by his standards
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      08-19-2020, 05:58 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Lol. Very true. Production numbers being limited doesn't make a car immune to depreciation. Maybe for some marque brands, but not for the CS. The F8X CS were somewhat limited in production I believe? I don't think those cars were not affected by depreciation.


The depreciation may end up not being as high as the M2C, but to assume it will not is illogical. And I still believe that we still have not even begun to witness the true economic impact of the current pandemic as well, particularly on the consumer side. But wtf do I know. I'm an idiot. Disregard this post lol
M4 F82 : 2500 units
2500 units for M4 CS. I assume slightly less for the M3 CS. And much less for M4 GTS. And they all depreciated. But who the heck knows what they'll be worth a decade or so after they were released.

If you can afford it, enjoy it without worrying about it being a 'collectors item' or depreciation due to mileage. Im just thankful they still make cars with 3 pedals.
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      08-19-2020, 06:02 PM   #104
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M2C will keep the CS from retaining value in the near term. I believe the CS will level off in the upper 40s for well used models and low 60s for low mileage super clean examples. If you could go 5 years and still be at 45k, then we are doing pretty darn good. $667/mo. That's below the cost of leasing.
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      08-19-2020, 06:13 PM   #105
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kart driver View Post
"A new set of adaptive dampers give a firmer ride on the road, even in the softest setting..."

Pretty unexpected
This is utterly bullish.t !!

The softest setting is not firmer, it is really softer (and not by a bit) than the OG M2

It is so soft it feels like a boat shaking
This is true with M3 CS as well. The CS suspension is better dialed than OG comp in all settings. I'm not sure what BMW did but the CS flat out works. Of course the author is going to claim with minor mods that he has 9/10 of a CS. Especially since he drives a comp. And CS owners will debate that and claim it was worth every nickel of the upcharge to join the CS club. I wont get into a value prop discussion of a Comp vs CS. I did enough of that back in 2018. But as someone that's driven both I'll stand firm that the appearance and driving experience of the total package is a bit more than just "subtle".
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      08-20-2020, 01:41 AM   #106
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Quote:
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This is true with M3 CS as well. The CS suspension is better dialed than OG comp in all settings. I'm not sure what BMW did but the CS flat out works. Of course the author is going to claim with minor mods that he has 9/10 of a CS. Especially since he drives a comp. And CS owners will debate that and claim it was worth every nickel of the upcharge to join the CS club. I wont get into a value prop discussion of a Comp vs CS. I did enough of that back in 2018. But as someone that's driven both I'll stand firm that the appearance and driving experience of the total package is a bit more than just "subtle".
Are you talking about the M3 vs M3CS or about the M2Comp vs the M2CS?

I guess the M3. So that's not really fair is it?




I wanted a CS but not for 50k euros more than my Comp cost me back in 10-2018.



I still have to drive a CS but with my GTS tune now I'm good at the moment

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      08-20-2020, 01:53 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
This is true with M3 CS as well. The CS suspension is better dialed than OG comp in all settings. I'm not sure what BMW did but the CS flat out works. Of course the author is going to claim with minor mods that he has 9/10 of a CS. Especially since he drives a comp. And CS owners will debate that and claim it was worth every nickel of the upcharge to join the CS club. I wont get into a value prop discussion of a Comp vs CS. I did enough of that back in 2018. But as someone that's driven both I'll stand firm that the appearance and driving experience of the total package is a bit more than just "subtle".
Are you talking about the M3 vs M3CS or about the M2Comp vs the M2CS?

I guess the M3. So that's not really fair is it?




I wanted a CS but not for 50k euros more than my Comp cost me back in 10-2018.



I still have to drive a CS but with my GTS tune now I'm good at the moment

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I was referring to original stock M3 competition compared to original stock CS
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      08-20-2020, 07:00 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
In Australia the GT4 cost 206k AUD vs $139k AUD for the CS. Even the GTS 4.0 is $179k AUD. There's not many options for the CS as it's pretty much loaded (cf DCT and CCBs) whereas the Porsche option lists extend out into to stratosphere. Perhaps that's why the CS is being distributed so globally and not predominantly into the US market?
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      08-20-2020, 07:50 AM   #109
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I think the whole lure of the M2c was the power to price point and how it didn't require you to spend Porsche money to get into a quick agile sports car (not to mention 6MT availability).

Now that there's a "better, quicker more expensive car" I feel like the M2cs elevates itself into a more expensive, more competitive segment that might work against it.

Just my 0.02c
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      08-20-2020, 07:50 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
I believe that no-one claims that an M2C (even if heavily modded) is an M2 CS or a wannabe M2 CS. Both cars are siblings of a great F87 bloodline. An M2C will always be an M2C and an M2 CS will always be an M2 CS. And the M2 CS will always be at the top of the F87 pecking order.

But any claim that the M2 CS is to the M2C, what the the E46 M3 CSL was to the the E46 M3, is flawed IMHO. BMW did quite some surgery on the E46 M3 to develop the E46 M3 CSL, shaving off 110 kg (1495 kg reduced to 1385 kg), never called it "limited edition" and made 1383 cars. This E46 M3 extraordinaire justified its 50% markup. One cannot say the same about the M2 CS. Great car, undoubtedly, but compared to the extra mile(s) walked by BMW M for the E46 M3 CSL (see for example here, here and here), BMW M took the easy road for the M2 CS and charged a flatteringly immodest markup when considering the M2C price (and discounts), regardless the marketing trick of "only 2200 cars" (817 more M2 CS than E46 M3 CSL or almost 60% more).
  • E46 M3 CSL: 1383 built (see here);
  • E92 M3 GTS ("limited edition"): 150 built (see here);
  • E90 M3 CRT ("limited edition"): 67 built (see here);
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built (see here);
  • M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built (see here);
  • M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built (see here);
  • M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled (2020) (see here).
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