BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > Chris Harris reviews the M2 CS vs his M2 Competition

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-18-2020, 12:18 PM   #67
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: F30 335i, F25 X3, E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
So I guess all the German vehicles are tanks then. . .
SDH

Yes, most of them are now . . .

No control over the course, and everything is heading toward the Taycan (electric) realm. Mad power and an absolute TANK. From an enthusiasts perspective, I derived next to zero pleasure in driving the Taycan.

At the end of the day, consumers with my interest are not keeping BMW, Audi or Mercedes in business. I get that. Consumers want luxuries/conveniences that come with 'bigger' . . . and power to move it.

However, I am holding on for dear life to the lighter and more enjoyable spirited driving experience. I have other options for driving the kids around.

Forum members can say what they want to justify whatever they want . . . but are they really buying an M2C or M2CS to tote the family around? Seriously?! Cup2 tires and two kids in the backseats sounds like a bit of an oxymoron.

As for your 718 vs 911 weight references . . . there is a reason I chose the one I did and it is very much related to this point.

As for BMW, I really think they missed an opportunity to take the M2CS to another level over the M2C when they failed to drop that 100 to 300 pounds you originally posted.

Finally, I do not like it one bit, but tanks with more power is the where we are with things. . . and it is only going to get worse.

///AVM
That's a solid perspective and makes sense and it sounds like you owned it literally (718 over the 911).

As far as toting the kids around and the wife, the kids love it for car shows and events the more ridiculous the car is and going for a pleasure cruise. Daily drive or family trip, my wife would likely kill me, or the eventual back seat whining would drive me insane.
__________________
2014 EBII MSport 335i -Delivered 7/12/14
1998 Hellrot M3/4/5
2011 X3
M2 CS (In Production)
Appreciate 1
///AVM1392.50

      08-18-2020, 11:00 PM   #68
Davil
Major
Australia
2239
Rep
1,408
Posts

Drives: Various
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Interesting. Piqued my interest.

Megane RS Trophy-R (not the Nurburgring spec as that is $131k and apparently only 1 came to Australia) v M2 Competition as tested in Motor Magazine PCOTY features.

I think "wouldn't know which way it went" still applies but possibly in the other direction.

Megane RS Trophy-R - Lap time 1:37.8
"On-track performance left some of us cold, despite being where it should excel. Tame racing driver Michael Almond noted it moved around under brakes, others thought the racing seats did little to improve the interface with the controls, and some weren't sure if ditching the rear-steering improved much. Tyre grip, when hot, is also insanely high, which smothered some chassis adjustability."

M2 Competition - Lap time: 1:31.0
"Make room on your bucket list to drive this thing on track because its dynamics are bewitching on, and beyond, its limit. It'll happily shift its angle of attack into a corner on the brakes or pivot around at the apex with more lock."
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 2
MDuckie56.50
Robin_NL5130.50

      08-19-2020, 02:40 AM   #69
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
Netherlands
5131
Rep
7,513
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands/ Lilyhammer, Norway

iTrader: (0)

I've testdriven a Clio V6 PhII back then because I wanted one. I did not buy it. Heat in cabin plus a sluggish performance, weak engine. And a feel to it like it's not play/tossable...

30 years ago I 'owned' a new 205 GTI 1.9 catless. Great car. I've driven the Clio 16 and Williams in the 90s. Great.

But since about 20 years FWD doesn't do it for me anymore. Any Megane, Type R, Seat etc can be faster on any track for what I care.
Its layout is what I do not want anymore. Sorry.

And now having 500PS on tap, I think I'll be fine

Alpine looks like a blast to me!

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 3
Romo1111.50
MDuckie56.50
///M TOWN3457.00

      08-19-2020, 03:10 AM   #70
Megator
Lieutenant
Megator's Avatar
319
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I've testdriven a Clio V6 PhII back then because I wanted one. I did not buy it. Heat in cabin plus a sluggish performance, weak engine. And a feel to it like it's not play/tossable...

30 years ago I 'owned' a new 205 GTI 1.9 catless. Great car. I've driven the Clio 16 and Williams in the 90s. Great.

But since about 20 years FWD doesn't do it for me anymore. Any Megane, Type R, Seat etc can be faster on any track for what I care.
Its layout is what I do not want anymore. Sorry.

And now having 500PS on tap, I think I'll be fine

Alpine looks like a blast to me!

Cheers
Robin
Same, after coming out of a corner sliding or with a quick flick to counter, you dont want to go back to FWD.

Last week at Zandvoort a 2nd gen Megane RS semi "trophy clone" (had buckets and rear half cage + trailered to the track so im sure more goodies than I cared to look for) couldnt keep up with my basically stock M2C while I was giving my family passenger rides and being a bit slopy.

Point is drive what you find fun and let the bench warriors worry about a cars potential lap times to price ratio. The lucky ones are out there enjoying whatever car they have before they all become soulless robotaxis.
__________________
AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
Appreciate 4
Robin_NL5130.50
Romo1111.50
MDuckie56.50

      08-19-2020, 06:40 AM   #71
Jimjamz
First Lieutenant
Jimjamz's Avatar
United_States
274
Rep
325
Posts

Drives: F
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
So I guess all the German vehicles are tanks then. . .
SDH

Yes, most of them are now . . .

No control over the course, and everything is heading toward the Taycan (electric) realm. Mad power and an absolute TANK. From an enthusiasts perspective, I derived next to zero pleasure in driving the Taycan.

At the end of the day, consumers with my interest are not keeping BMW, Audi or Mercedes in business. I get that. Consumers want luxuries/conveniences that come with 'bigger' . . . and power to move it.

However, I am holding on for dear life to the lighter and more enjoyable spirited driving experience. I have other options for driving the kids around.

Forum members can say what they want to justify whatever they want . . . but are they really buying an M2C or M2CS to tote the family around? Seriously?! Cup2 tires and two kids in the backseats sounds like a bit of an oxymoron.

As for your 718 vs 911 weight references . . . there is a reason I chose the one I did and it is very much related to this point.

As for BMW, I really think they missed an opportunity to take the M2CS to another level over the M2C when they failed to drop that 100 to 300 pounds you originally posted.

Finally, I do not like it one bit, but tanks with more power is the where we are with things. . . and it is only going to get worse.

///AVM
That's a solid perspective and makes sense and it sounds like you owned it literally (718 over the 911).

As far as toting the kids around and the wife, the kids love it for car shows and events the more ridiculous the car is and going for a pleasure cruise. Daily drive or family trip, my wife would likely kill me, or the eventual back seat whining would drive me insane.
We got the CS over the 718 GTS as it had the extra two seats for an emergency if we needed to move the kids around. It was good to have that option.
Appreciate 2
///AVM1392.50
Romo1111.50

      08-19-2020, 08:14 AM   #72
Romo
Lieutenant Colonel
Romo's Avatar
Netherlands
1112
Rep
1,598
Posts

Drives: HP4C M2CS HS DCT 718GT4 slot
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

For me its quit simple;

No FWD car
No torque steer

That leaves not many alternatives.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 08:17 AM   #73
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: F30 335i, F25 X3, E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
For me its quit simple;

No FWD car
No torque steer

That leaves not amny alternatives.
When I started this search I originally had a strict "300+ hp, mid-engine" requirement. Well, that kind of gets you down to not much. If I recall correctly it was the Evora and the Boxster/Cayman. I also had a general - trackable, reasonable maintenance, and on the more important end "special/rare". So ended up for 5 years focused on the GT4. Then I drove one, really disliked it on the street (gearing, road noise, usability), and started all over with opening up the parameters without the mid-engine. Long story short - CS.
__________________
2014 EBII MSport 335i -Delivered 7/12/14
1998 Hellrot M3/4/5
2011 X3
M2 CS (In Production)
Appreciate 4
Romo1111.50
cptobvious2286.50
M2CS60.00

      08-19-2020, 08:38 AM   #74
Romo
Lieutenant Colonel
Romo's Avatar
Netherlands
1112
Rep
1,598
Posts

Drives: HP4C M2CS HS DCT 718GT4 slot
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

If we make it more difficult; lets say;

No FWD
No torque steer
6 cilinder engine

What is left?

CS and Porsche GTS/GT4

No guess what
Appreciate 1
MDuckie56.50

      08-19-2020, 08:50 AM   #75
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: F30 335i, F25 X3, E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
If we make it more difficult; lets say;

No FWD
No torque steer
6 cilinder engine

What is left?

CS and Porsche GTS/GT4

No guess what
They do make 6 cylinder Genesis, Camaro, Mustang, Giulia, and a couple others
__________________
2014 EBII MSport 335i -Delivered 7/12/14
1998 Hellrot M3/4/5
2011 X3
M2 CS (In Production)
Appreciate 1
Romo1111.50

      08-19-2020, 08:51 AM   #76
Romo
Lieutenant Colonel
Romo's Avatar
Netherlands
1112
Rep
1,598
Posts

Drives: HP4C M2CS HS DCT 718GT4 slot
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

I just like German cars
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 08:53 AM   #77
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: F30 335i, F25 X3, E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
I just like German cars
With you there!
__________________
2014 EBII MSport 335i -Delivered 7/12/14
1998 Hellrot M3/4/5
2011 X3
M2 CS (In Production)
Appreciate 1
Romo1111.50

      08-19-2020, 11:50 AM   #78
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
7391
Rep
24,736
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
That is a great blue.
thinking the same thing
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, PM ME FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Jimmy Miller:jmiller@stevethomasbmw.com Cell:805-509-2048
If you have any issues getting a hold of Jimmy M PLEASE PM me, I'm available everyday till 545pm!
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 11:51 AM   #79
///M2CS
Enlisted Member
///M2CS's Avatar
63
Rep
45
Posts

Drives: M2 CS soon
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: France

iTrader: (0)

M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
__________________
///M2 CS MB - M-DCT-2 NH - GLD 763M - Cup2

Last edited by ///M2CS; 08-19-2020 at 12:11 PM..
Appreciate 3
cptobvious2286.50
Davil2239.00

      08-19-2020, 12:26 PM   #80
RyanBMW
First Lieutenant
RyanBMW's Avatar
United_States
282
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 328i, 2011 F10 550i,
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Plano, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
If you expect any M2C owner to disavow their decision, you've lost your mind! Even a guy like Chris Harris feels the need to justify themselves. I've been down this road with many BMW drivers playing down my 1M as just hype. I write most of these off as jealous they didn't buy one.

I had a OG M2 and loved it. Was it worth $15k more then my 1M, yes it was. Do I believe the CS will be worth the extra $25k, yes. You can't pull up to any stop light without seeing 3 other BMW's so for me, exclusivity is worth some amount of money even if it just car people who recognize it.

I had a beautiful E30 M3 that most people thought was just another old BMW, but to car people it was an event and that is kind of fun. NC DMV valued that car at $2,200. Last time I saw it sell it went for $60K. Worth it? I'm sure it was to the guy that bought it.

I'd say buying cars for most of us on this site requires two things, first you have to have a passion for that car and see something you love in it. Secondly, you must have the money and the timing must be right. I planned the purchase of my 135 perfectly timing wise to get a 1M. I did the same thing with the lease of my M4 and purchase of my M2 to get the M2 CS.

Tothe lucky few that get one, yes it will be worth it, to anybody else, no it won't be it's likely that simple.
JHall, have you heard when you can place an order?
Gen Manager friend at M Dealership said regional BMW NA Rep says Sept or Oct.
I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 12:48 PM   #81
sdhotwn
Mmmm... Bavarian
sdhotwn's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: F30 335i, F25 X3, E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!
The incentives sheet I saw at the dealer last night listed the M2 CS as a MY2020.
__________________
2014 EBII MSport 335i -Delivered 7/12/14
1998 Hellrot M3/4/5
2011 X3
M2 CS (In Production)
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 12:53 PM   #82
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
9328
Rep
10,348
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Damn that blue is ugly, it'd put me off buying one altogether.

BMW should have given us a truly special color, and a car that was significantly lighter. As it is the Comp is stealing the CS's Fire. At least they put ugly wheels on the Comp to make at least some gap. 😆
Drooling...
I drove that very car and BMW PC West! It's a wrap btw.
__________________

2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 1
JustChris11375.00

      08-19-2020, 12:53 PM   #83
ND40oz
Major
ND40oz's Avatar
266
Rep
1,170
Posts

Drives: 09 135i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver/Frankfurt

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!
I don't think BMW would do a second model year just for the US/CA market when it's one and done for the ROW. It would only be a 6 month model year as well since EOP for the F87 is 6/2021, they can build the current 2020 models through 12/2020.
__________________
20 BMW M2 CS
19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT
18 BMW X3 M40i
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 12:55 PM   #84
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
9328
Rep
10,348
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
A better deal isn't always the better car. It's just to save some $.
__________________

2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 01:15 PM   #85
RyanBMW
First Lieutenant
RyanBMW's Avatar
United_States
282
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 328i, 2011 F10 550i,
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Plano, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!
The incentives sheet I saw at the dealer last night listed the M2 CS as a MY2020.
Thanks for the confirmation!
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 01:19 PM   #86
RyanBMW
First Lieutenant
RyanBMW's Avatar
United_States
282
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 328i, 2011 F10 550i,
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Plano, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!
I don't think BMW would do a second model year just for the US/CA market when it's one and done for the ROW. It would only be a 6 month model year as well since EOP for the F87 is 6/2021, they can build the current 2020 models through 12/2020.
I understand, but what I was hoping for was the late production units for the USA would be MY2021, wishful thinking isn't it! I am not saying that BMW should produce more than 2,200 for additional MY 2021, hope that makes sense!!
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 01:27 PM   #87
///M2CS
Enlisted Member
///M2CS's Avatar
63
Rep
45
Posts

Drives: M2 CS soon
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: France

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
A better deal isn't always the better car. It's just to save some $.
M2 competition upgraded or M2 CS: the choice may suit everyone according to their $
M2 CS will remain a must have limit to 2200
__________________
///M2 CS MB - M-DCT-2 NH - GLD 763M - Cup2
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2020, 02:08 PM   #88
jhall1957
Lieutenant
438
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: SE 46
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: WS,NC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
__________________
Garage; 2020 Raptor, 2011 1M, 2017 M2 PE, 2006 Z4 MC, 2007 Z4 MC, 2001 Spec E46, 2007 GT3
Appreciate 1
chris7194073.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST