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      08-17-2020, 08:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
It was $65k Aus$, my M2 was $85k Aus$ & performance wise the Megane absolutely shits on it.
Except for back seats, NVH, and a few other practicality things.. but yeah, on the track I wouldn't question for a moment which one is the alpha!

I was partially curious what the difference in cost between a regular Megane (the hotter end of their spectrum) and this full out track edition was. If it was 65K, what is a regular megane 265 or RS300 at the time (40K?).

I wouldn't get too riled up about someone not appreciating the artistry in a true track car and the boldness of a manufacturer offering something of that caliber and dedication. That's a hell of a car you have!

Edit: I priced out a Megane RS Trophy on the australian website and it came out at 65k and the article that was linked in here said the Trophy R was 75K. So seems like you got a good deal on the Trophy R! A 10k markup over the top regular Megane also doesn't seem bad at all for the level of changes.
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      08-17-2020, 08:35 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
True, no doubt. BUT, he bought the M2 C and is happy with it, as he should be. No doubt he is a bit "jaded" by all the great cars he drives. I'm glad he chose to own a BMW M2 whichever model. But again, since he owns a M2 C and spent(we assume) his money on it, he won't have a objective view of its brothers or sisters.

This shouldn't be a battle between the C and CS at all. Both are great and as a IG M2 owner(a Performance Edition) I never felt any animosity towards any other M2 models. Not sure why the M2 C crowd feels so threatened.
And he still did what half of us did and modified it right away.. in his case dumping close to $14k into it.
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      08-17-2020, 08:48 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
It was $65k Aus$, my M2 was $85k Aus$ & performance wise the Megane absolutely shits on it.
Except for back seats, NVH, and a few other practicality things.. but yeah, on the track I wouldn't question for a moment which one is the alpha!

I was partially curious what the difference in cost between a regular Megane (the hotter end of their spectrum) and this full out track edition was. If it was 65K, what is a regular megane 265 or RS300 at the time (40K?).

I wouldn't get too riled up about someone not appreciating the artistry in a true track car and the boldness of a manufacturer offering something of that caliber and dedication. That's a hell of a car you have!
Yep regular RS275 was about $45k+ at the time. The new Trophy-R is on sale here now for $80k. Don't worry I know how special it is, I just don't have time for ignorant people that can't appreciate something because its over their head. As I said 'horses for courses'.
I had a rare RS200AE Clio that I tarmac rally & raced too...here's a couple of pics of that one also.
I've obviously modified it heavily for racing/rallying but it was very focused from the factory also. The last pic is racing it in the wet at Mount Panorama Bathurst which some of you may know from PlayStation etc.
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      08-17-2020, 09:12 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
The last pic is racing it in the wet at Mount Panorama Bathurst which some of you may know from PlayStation etc.
So how tight is it when you're coming down the hill through the twisty bits (Brocks Skyline?) before the long straight away with the right hand sweeper (Conrod Straight?)? Like impossible to overtake anyone? Certainly feels that way in Forza.
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      08-17-2020, 09:18 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
My point is that half the reviews will be nonsense. I think Achilles is honest. As is the users who have said it's great, more livable as a daily. Worth the jump from the OG, but less so from the C.
It's a cool capable car [M2 CS] that's worth it to some, but be mindful as it's not chump change so there are options abound that could better suit needs.
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Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
As a committed LCI owner, I have to say that the price makes the 4.0 Cayman seem a bargain? Obvs, the cost of "required extras" is likely to swallow the difference whole, but still...
I’m wondering the same thing, but on the Boxster side.
Although, the back end of the 718 Spyder is something to behold.
To the right buyer, the CS will be totally worth it - love seeing the CF hood and bonnet, specific spoiler, etc.
And the M3/4 ZCP tune is a monster. The M2C felt neutered to me when test driving it - that 445 BHP version of the S55 will be a ton of fun in the F87 package.
Dmboone is right. I have the M2 Competition and the engine is definitely neutered. Trying to get a M2 CS.
It's all about expectations:
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      08-17-2020, 09:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
The last pic is racing it in the wet at Mount Panorama Bathurst which some of you may know from PlayStation etc.
So how tight is it when you're coming down the hill through the twisty bits (Brocks Skyline?) before the long straight away with the right hand sweeper (Conrod Straight?)? Like impossible to overtake anyone? Certainly feels that way in Forza.
Yes it's very difficult to pass down the esses, you tend to end up in a train, the hairiest part on the circuit is before skyline going through Reid park to Mcphillamy park, the car gets very light at big speed & is almost floating through there, its very easy to come unstuck & the result if you do is massive damage. Fantastic circuit overall, the surface is like glass it's so smooth but there is zero runoff area anywhere, if you have 'an off' your going to hit something. Anyway this has gone way off topic.
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      08-17-2020, 09:56 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
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Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Karmic

True, but it is not an M2CS, so . . . it is shit.

///AVM
I knew it...cause it's only at half the price of the CS
'Pointless' Renault exercise. . .

///AVM
I'm punching out of this tread because it's gotten so off topic. Sure the Renault is a better track car then any street car. I've drive enough of both to know you can't compare. Besides, can't buy that in the USA.
Stop shitting on people's preferences. Renault track is awesome, but not at the expense of some other guys M2 or whatever. That's the problem with more forums is it like everyone whips it out to show theirs is longer. These are comments you'd never make to another drivers face at a track or event.

I've had lots of races car and they can't be beat for the track but to run down the twisties for some fun or a gallon of milk? No thanks!

Car comparisons like Chris Harris' are great because he tries(most times) to be objective AND compare cars that have same intended use and idea. Sure it's fun to see a compo of M2 CS M2 Race but no one get too caught up in it. Inevitably, someone comes into a group who doesn't like that groups car, or can't get one or can't afford one and starts pointing out how you are all fools! Normally it's the Porsche guy who's car doesn't even have a back seat! I've never seen a BMW I didn't like! Some are over done, some are over priced(maybe CS) and some just kiss the mark, but we should crap on what others like! Hell, I'm still trying to figure why anyone buys a Prius!
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      08-17-2020, 11:01 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
I'm punching out of this tread because it's gotten so off topic. Sure the Renault is a better track car then any street car. I've drive enough of both to know you can't compare. Besides, can't buy that in the USA.
Stop shitting on people's preferences. Renault track is awesome, but not at the expense of some other guys M2 or whatever. That's the problem with more forums is it like everyone whips it out to show theirs is longer. These are comments you'd never make to another drivers face at a track or event.

I've had lots of races car and they can't be beat for the track but to run down the twisties for some fun or a gallon of milk? No thanks!

Car comparisons like Chris Harris' are great because he tries(most times) to be objective AND compare cars that have same intended use and idea. Sure it's fun to see a compo of M2 CS M2 Race but no one get too caught up in it. Inevitably, someone comes into a group who doesn't like that groups car, or can't get one or can't afford one and starts pointing out how you are all fools! Normally it's the Porsche guy who's car doesn't even have a back seat! I've never seen a BMW I didn't like! Some are over done, some are over priced(maybe CS) and some just kiss the mark, but we should crap on what others like! Hell, I'm still trying to figure why anyone buys a Prius!
J

I am sure the Prius gets the job done just fine, you know, for anyone crazy enough to want an affordable and efficient vehicle to drive from point A to point B for a gallon of milk . . .

I agree, who would ever consider buying a sport car without back seats? I mean, where in the world do those Porsche guys ever find room room for a gallon of milk . . . or a child seat when they are going 80mph at 7000 RPM in 2nd gear through the twisties?

Deep breaths . . . we are just talking about cars here.

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      08-17-2020, 02:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Another point to consider, he recommends:
Bilstien suspension kit - $2,000-$5,000 depending on if base PSS10 or clubsport
Akrapovic exhaust - ~$4,400-$4800
And the CS wheels - $3300-$4100

So you'd be in for another ~$14,000 on the high side to close the gap from his view, and still be short the window dressings.
I don't know if you can count the suspension kit and exhaust - if you want a true track setup with adjustability you'd likely need to replace the suspension. And the exhaust would probably need replacing since the CS largely sounds the same as the C stock.

So that just really leaves the wheels, front hood and roof - which to be fair, is expensive as hell if you're buying from BMW. But you could buy an aftermarket hood and roof for much, much cheaper, so perhaps this isn't realistic.
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      08-17-2020, 03:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
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I don't know if you can count the suspension kit and exhaust - if you want a true track setup with adjustability you'd likely need to replace the suspension. And the exhaust would probably need replacing since the CS largely sounds the same as the C stock.

So that just really leaves the wheels, front hood and roof - which to be fair, is expensive as hell if you're buying from BMW. But you could buy an aftermarket hood and roof for much, much cheaper, so perhaps this isn't realistic.
I was going off just Harris's comments.

If you are looking for a track car, it's been discussed in other spots - the CS is not the starting platform to go for. It doesn't offer significant advantages if you are going to go through and swap out suspension, swap tunes, etc. The center of gravity differences are not likely worth it.

As far as for my future CS, I'll likely throw on some camber plates for the track days it will see to help with tire wear, and that's about all it'll ever need. It will be interesting to see what the US versions sound like when there are no particulate filters in the exhaust.
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      08-17-2020, 07:51 PM   #55
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I would like to see a test between-
2020 M2C /MP Suspension/ 763 wheels/ Cup2
VS 2021 CS

Let's see what happens when you have same tires and wheels on both cars-
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      08-17-2020, 07:58 PM   #56
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I would like to see a test between-
2020 M2C /MP Suspension/ 763 wheels/ Cup2
VS 2021 CS

Let's see what happens when you have same tires and wheels on both cars-
Should be very similar results, but then your back to comparing a modified car to a stock spec car. I'd certainly like to see the m2C on cup 2s compared to the CS.
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      08-17-2020, 09:33 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Yep regular RS275 was about $45k+ at the time. The new Trophy-R is on sale here now for $80k. Don't worry I know how special it is, I just don't have time for ignorant people that can't appreciate something because its over their head. As I said 'horses for courses'.
I had a rare RS200AE Clio that I tarmac rally & raced too...here's a couple of pics of that one also.
I've obviously modified it heavily for racing/rallying but it was very focused from the factory also. The last pic is racing it in the wet at Mount Panorama Bathurst which some of you may know from PlayStation etc.
Apologies. I missed that you were a pro racer competing in a specific class. In that case it makes perfect sense.
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      08-17-2020, 11:45 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Dmboone is right. I have the M2 Competition and the engine is definitely neutered. Trying to get a M2 CS.

This. But I'm not going to pay 140/150k euros for a CS overhere. Not in this life

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Well, you can just get a tune to get it back. Warranty is void but it would take a complete engine failure to match the price difference between the Competition and CS.
Exactly what I did two weeks ago. My comp is turning two in october. And it's going to get the small oil service WITHOUT the new software(from 3/2019 on iirc)
I'm running the new MHD WiFi GTS stage 0, 500PS, since two weeks.
They know about it. But since I'm probably going for a M Performance suspension and being 30 years a loyal customer, they're alright with it.

Anyway: That tune/remap makes the neutered engine in the stock M2Comp REALLY come alive. Feels like having a new car.

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      08-18-2020, 08:24 AM   #59
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RenaultSports have a massive following in the UK. They're considered the best hot hatches (R5 GT Turbo, Clio Williams, Clio V6, 182 Trophy, Megane R26.R, Megane Trophy-R). I’d say the RS 182 Trophy was one the most fun cars I’ve owned. (Sachs race dampers, specially developed Michelin Pilot Exaltos, half leather/alcantara Recaro buckets). All of this for 15k in 2005 (13k discounted - thats what you call a bargain!). These days you pay 6250 for brakes alone lol the ridiculous pricing takes the fun out of it.

What you call a pointless exercise is adding lightness and making a more focused drivers car. If BMW had done the same, the CSL would have been born.

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...but you could just as easily ruin many much cheaper road cars to do the same thing as this car... but faster. I'd classify this under pointless exercise.
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      08-18-2020, 09:52 AM   #60
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If BMW had done the same, the CSL would have been born.
BMW has lost sight of fact that continuing to add more power to their tanks doesn't change fact that they are still a tanks. . . you can move more mass with more power, but you cannot hide the mass.

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      08-18-2020, 10:19 AM   #61
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I love how people go straight to carbon parts and suspension tuning as the reasoning behind performance gains from model to model. Cup tires vs Pilot sports is a huge difference in grip, turn in, confidence etc.. The same thing happened when they started the muscle car battling but the deference between the mustang track pack (on 255 tires) and Camaro 1LE (on 305 tires) should've been pretty obvious!
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      08-18-2020, 10:24 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by j0oftheworld View Post
I love how people go straight to carbon parts and suspension tuning as the reasoning behind performance gains from model to model. Cup tires vs Pilot sports is a huge difference in grip, turn in, confidence etc.. The same thing happened when they started the muscle car battling but the deference between the mustang track pack (on 255 tires) and Camaro 1LE (on 305 tires) should've been pretty obvious!
Yes, the CS would be a more compelling package from a pricing standpoint if they did without the carbon BS and just offered the car with the full S55 tune, adaptive dampers, and Cup 2 + 763M + CCB option. Of course, they wouldn't do that because I am sure the carbon parts are a major profit center.
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      08-18-2020, 10:39 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
BMW has lost sight of fact that continuing to add more power to their tanks doesn't change fact that they are still a tanks. . . you can move more mass with more power, but you cannot hide the mass.

///AVM
You do realize the M2 and CS weigh the same or less than the 911s, and only ~300 lbs more than Cayman variants. Or you know, about how much more a Cayman weighs than a Boxster... I can't bear the feel of a car when I take my significant other or my kids out for a drive, just too much weight...

So I guess all the German vehicles are tanks then... as we better not even talk about Audi or Merc weights.

EDIT: Corrected the Cayman weight difference estimate.
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      08-18-2020, 11:04 AM   #64
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You do realize the M2 and CS weigh the same or less than the 911s, and only 100-300 lbs more than Cayman variants. Or you know, about how much more a Cayman weighs than a Boxster... I can't bear the feel of a car when I take my significant other or my kids out for a drive, just too much weight...

So I guess all the German vehicles are tanks then... as we better not even talk about Audi or Merc weights.
It is funny that you mention the weight. I can tell when carrying a passenger in my current car. I'm buying the CS to enjoy more with my wife and kids. Which kinda makes the weight savings argument for CCB pointless I've flip flopped 4 times since yesterday.
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      08-18-2020, 11:09 AM   #65
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It is funny that you mention the weight. I can tell when carrying a passenger in my current car. I'm buying the CS to enjoy more with my wife and kids. Which kinda makes the weight savings argument for CCB pointless I've flip flopped 4 times since yesterday.
Right, it is noticeable sometimes, and moreso in some cars than others. My F30 I don't notice it until I'm up to 4 passengers. The miata - it was immediate. The interesting thing was we tested this a lot back to back on the autocross course etc to see how much of a difference this made in some cars and on 60 second courses with good drivers we found it was negligible - in the noise. Maybe could make an argument for around .1 seconds. So 200 lbs when all out racing in that situation and it made little difference. In some cases we saw improvement (believed to be due to corner balancing).

CCB's are unsprung weight, so a different feel/issue there to consider. Also on this whole issue - fixating over certain issues and not taking into mind all the other variables, and the other items like simply enjoying the cars with others etc is a bit silly in my view, hence my sarcastic post above. We've been over this one so many times in other places and I'll still hold up the 4120 lb Camaro that will leave all these cars for broke on the track as a bit of an argument over the issue of weight mattering on ultimate performance. Hell the Taycan will laugh these cars out of the parking lot on some measures and it's at ~5000 lbs, or if weight is your consideration for sports car then we should be arguing about Exige's or Miatas...
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      08-18-2020, 12:10 PM   #66
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So I guess all the German vehicles are tanks then. . .
SDH

Yes, most of them are now . . .

No control over the course, and everything is heading toward the Taycan (electric) realm. Mad power and an absolute TANK. From an enthusiasts perspective, I derived next to zero pleasure in driving the Taycan.

At the end of the day, consumers with my interest are not keeping BMW, Audi or Mercedes in business. I get that. Consumers want luxuries/conveniences that come with 'bigger' . . . and power to move it.

However, I am holding on for dear life to the lighter and more enjoyable spirited driving experience. I have other options for driving the kids around.

Forum members can say what they want to justify whatever they want . . . but are they really buying an M2C or M2CS to tote the family around? Seriously?! Cup2 tires and two kids in the backseats sounds like a bit of an oxymoron.

As for your 718 vs 911 weight references . . . there is a reason I chose the one I did and it is very much related to this point.

As for BMW, I really think they missed an opportunity to take the M2CS to another level over the M2C when they failed to drop that 100 to 300 pounds you originally posted.

Finally, I do not like it one bit, but tanks with more power is where we are with things. . . and it is only going to get worse.

///AVM
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