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      08-04-2020, 06:52 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
You know, I once got a Jack Russell Terrier. So much positive press about the breed. Supposedly, it was the best "platform" of all dog breeds - loyalty, friendliness, fun... All lies. Hated that dog. Peed over everything. Chewed up my Uncanny X-Men #193. Bit me once for trying to tickle his balls. Finally, gave him away to a 6 year old kid down the block.

I hate that dog so much, to this day, I continue to frequent the Jack Russell forums to tell everyone:
Hehehe this made me laugh!

Iím in the middle of moving and the M2 is my only car. Iím so happy I didnít go with a Supra right now.

I like how the Supra looks. I like that it appears to be competent. But letís not kid ourselves itís a halo car. Toyota is trying to capitalize on nostalgia while proving to the world theyíre not as boring as theyíve appeared to be over the past two decades. Not having a manual on the car is a travesty. I just canít for the life of me understand the decision to spend all that money developing (or paying bmw to develop) a platform that compromises interior space, practicality, fuel economy etc in the name of driving fun only to not include a manual transmission. They got 90 percent of the way there but then fucked up that last ten percent in a way that pretty much invalidates their entire goal for a large number of people (and Iíd argue a disproportionate number of the fanboys that make up the core market for this car.)

I was watching Matt Farrah review the four banger Supra recently. He mentioned that the last time he took one on a twisty road, the transmission overheated and the car went into limp mode. Torque converter autos are great...for certain things.

Anyway, yeah. Iím a salty former Toyota fanboy, so the car not having a manual really hurt.
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      08-04-2020, 07:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I tend to agree with this BMWs of old still look remarkably good. I worry that the G series is a bit too trendy, but at some point you must transition to the electric revolution. I believe the G series is an evolutionary stepping stone.
Dave

I agree with you about BMWs of old . . . whenever I see circa 2015 335i M Sport I still think it is one of the best looking cars on the road. Not even an ///M car. Simple, common and quintessential BMW. . . great car. In fact, one day I am going to see one on a lot somewhere and take it off their hands.

Regarding G series . . . M3/4 are dead to me, but I do think the G87 M2/M2C are going to carry the F87 to the next level.

Finally, as a quick aside . . . by no means am I trying to enable you when it comes to those damn gold wheels, BUT I saw this M2 and I am man enough to say it . . . those gold wheels look pretty sweet in THAT photo.

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      08-04-2020, 08:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Sorry, they lost me the second I saw the automatic shifter, on the Supra..

It's really tragic they are so reluctant to mate it with a proper manual gearbox.

If they are trying to save a buck, they can simple use the one from M240i and just beef up the clutch and flywheel, since it shares an early iteration of the B58.. :

Until the new Supra finally comes with a clutch, there is no competition; the M2C wins, IMHO..



.
they're going to have something new for that car every year so they'll probably have mt eventually.

Hate comparisons with auto vs mt or wildly different tires.
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      08-04-2020, 10:05 PM   #48
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Toyota manufacturing is known for being extremely efficient and always looking for ways to improve their processes.

That being said, maybe they plan on releasing a manual Supra in the future with higher hp motor (S58?). Planned obsoleteness, it works. And besides capitalizing on consumerism, having a manual sports car in the line up will help make Mr White New Balance Douche Bag think he's cool. Because the lame ass unibody SUV he bought for his stupid family is made by the same company that produces a fire breathing sports car that's available with a super cool stick shift that they "would so get if I didn't have these lame kids".

What I'm getting at, people want to connect with being part of a cool thing even though they won't take the plunge themselves.

BTW, the DCT is awesome and totally unrelated to my incoherent ramblings about hating on people that won't drive a manual.
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      08-04-2020, 10:07 PM   #49
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Ted Cuz drives a Supra.
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      08-04-2020, 11:15 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinconHeat View Post
I read an article yesterday (which for the life of me I can't find but will continue to pursue) that speaks to the take-rate of manuals in a variety of cars. I seem to recall that the Ms had a significant take- over 20% in the US with the M2c close to 50%. I'll continue to look for the source.
Someday soon the take rate for manual transmissions for *all* cars in the UK may get down to 50%:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...anual-13128619
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      08-05-2020, 01:53 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
If the above video says anything it's that the M2C was half a second quicker around Hockenheim than the Supra. I don't see how that would transfer to your experience with the M2C though.

I'm super happy with mine but then I don't have too many encounters with Supras ...
It's not supra encounter ...

That much power difference is good for at least a couple of seconds.

I think the issue is the handling of the m2.

Supra did it so much better.

Also quarter mile in another video the m2 beat it by a . Point on a second. That power diff should be good for 1.5 seconds.

Aside from the hype over it. Car does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this car.
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      08-05-2020, 02:10 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Aside from the hype over it. Dog does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this animal.
Maybe a border collie next time?
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      08-05-2020, 02:24 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
You don't buy a M2 to beat supra.. Inherently we all know the 2 series is a compromised platform. You have more space, more utility than a 2 seater supra with honestly 0 headroom. The ingress and egress is also horrible on supra. I personally couldn't fit inside the supra thus I got the M2.
Also anyone like driving with the windows open?

I SAID ANYONE LIKE DRIVING WITHT THE WINDOWS OPENNNN?

Only for the brave in a Supra and you like hospital food.
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      08-05-2020, 04:38 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
wonder what the M2's time would've been with the DCT...
Its a high 1:57.xx. It has been tested already, even though there's no video of it. Don't recall the exact time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaacky View Post
how's that A45s faster than a M2 CS and the Cayman GTS wtf
Trofeo R on the A45S, it's like cheating tbh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).

A 70hp difference (which is more like 50, if that) isn't as important as it may seem.
The M2C with the standard tires has an incredible difficult time with the front. It clearly needs better or larger tires.
The Supra has a better platform for the track. And was still slower, despite having the quicker gearbox (on the M2 they shortshifted/didnt shift lower on 2 or 3 corners, where the DCT would obviously push harder).
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      08-05-2020, 06:36 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratcher View Post

You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).
I've never tracked a car, only motorcycles. The skills and consistency is lost on a lot of people I suspect. Just because a car has certain specs and a pro drive can do XYZ with doesn't mean I can.

Comparing a 2 door sports car against a basic economy car with a big motor is doesn't make sense, but it seems to generate a lot of conversation.
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      08-05-2020, 06:39 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandt51 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratcher View Post

You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).
I've never tracked a car, only motorcycles. The skills and consistency is lost on a lot of people I suspect. Just because a car has certain specs and a pro drive can do XYZ with doesn't mean I can.

Comparing a 2 door sports car against a basic economy car with a big motor is doesn't make sense, but it seems to generate a lot of conversation.
Agreed and I don't try to mimic pro drivers either. Surely take notes and try to learn what they're doing, but never forget that they know extremely well what they're doing and the average person should always add a safety margin - break 50 meters earlier, see how that feels, shorten if too much room left, etc. Go from there.

Look in the video about 1:20 min into the M2 lap, entering the 3rd section, how he does that corner. An inexperienced person would have had an incredibly hard time.
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      08-05-2020, 07:33 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by BimBimM2 View Post
Really? The S55 is detuned in the M2C? Absolutely new to me. Very interesting!
S55 Factory Tunes:
410hp/405lb-ft M2C
431hp/405-lb-ft Base M3/4
450hp/405lb-ft CP M3/4 / M2cs
460hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)
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      08-05-2020, 07:49 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Toyota is the best selling auto maker world because they have smart people to optimize the vehicle options and not spending unnecessary money. Also I am sure the supra project has a limited budget at the beginning but with the higher demand for the car (you have to buy those damn vehicles!), they will add a manual option down the line.
They are the best selling by volume because they make bland vehicles for the masses. They are however not the most profitable...
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      08-05-2020, 04:36 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Aside from the hype over it. Dog does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this animal.
Maybe a border collie next time?
Woof!
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      08-05-2020, 04:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Also anyone like driving with the windows open?

I SAID ANYONE LIKE DRIVING WITHT THE WINDOWS OPENNNN?

Only for the brave in a Supra and you like hospital food.
This.

As someone that drives with the windows down pretty all the time, it's a deal breaker. I can't believe manufacturers are still struggling with this in 2020.
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      08-05-2020, 09:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
wonder what the M2's time would've been with the DCT...
So do I. It would have been a better time. As much fun as manuals are, DCT and even the new ZF have proven a bit quicker.
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      08-06-2020, 05:31 AM   #62
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These are the S55 Tune numbers I have (US):

405hp/406lb-ft M2C
425hp/406lb-ft Base M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft Competition Pkg M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft M2cs
454hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)

Agreed - People forget the M2C's S55 is de-tuned.
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      08-06-2020, 06:17 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
It shows clearly the S55 wasn't really needed

That B58 sounds simply glorious
I went from an m240i to an m2c

the s55 is a much more engaging engine than the b58

has much more character, revs more freely and has that motorsports feel

the b58 is strong and torquey and sounds good but it can't compare to an actual m developed engine
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      08-06-2020, 09:04 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
It shows clearly the S55 wasn't really needed

That B58 sounds simply glorious
I went from an m240i to an m2c

the s55 is a much more engaging engine than the b58

has much more character, revs more freely and has that motorsports feel

the b58 is strong and torquey and sounds good but it can't compare to an actual m developed engine
The OG M2 has a version of the N55 that was built by M not like a standard N55 engine used in standard series cars

Its a wonderfully capable engine and it sounds delicious compared to the horrific sound of the S55

My M2 will beat my M4 to 60 over and over again that's how capable it truly is

The only place I prefer the M4 is on the highway at higher speeds
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      08-06-2020, 09:34 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
These are the S55 Tune numbers I have (US):

405hp/406lb-ft M2C
425hp/406lb-ft Base M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft Competition Pkg M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft M2cs
454hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)

Agreed - People forget the M2C's S55 is de-tuned.
I posted the power values in DIN hp, you are showing SAE hp. In that respect, the GTS should show 493hp to be consistent and CS should show 453hp to be more precise .
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      08-06-2020, 11:36 AM   #66
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The biggest issue with Toyota sports cars is that Toyota doesn't build sports cars. They literally re badge other manufacturer's cars as their own. I wouldn't trust that in the sense of when the car needs servicing, wouldn't the techs at Subaru or BMW know more about the car than Toyota?
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