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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > M2 CS - geometry - anyone know what's changed ?

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      08-03-2020, 04:34 AM   #1
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M2 CS - geometry - anyone know what's changed ?

I've read a few m2CS reviews and some refer to different geometry setup for M2CS.

Does anyone know any more about this yet ?

If so, what's changed from M2Comp geo ?

Or is this more oem mis-info ie M2 -> M2Comp - rose-jointed rear M2Comp -> M2CS - better geo ???
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      08-03-2020, 07:38 AM   #2
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I thought I read that there might be a change in camber? The programming for the e-diff and mdm is different. Improved cooling was also mentioned, but I'm not sure what was done it added to improve cooling.

All of the programming will likely be available to C owners at some point.
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      08-03-2020, 07:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I thought I read that there might be a change in camber? The programming for the e-diff and mdm is different. Improved cooling was also mentioned, but I'm not sure what was done it added to improve cooling.

All of the programming will likely be available to C owners at some point.
Agreed - I’ve read camber tweaks for this (and other F8x) CS variants but there’s nothing new in terms CS specific hardware, particularly upfront.

Maybe camber correction hubs are installed as standard alas F80/2 CS run standard hubs as per reg & comp m3/4.....

Newtis link below confirms m4cs alignment specs are the same as regular m4

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...g-measurement/
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      08-03-2020, 06:42 PM   #4
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Geometry is just a fancy word for a slightly altered alignment, unless suspension arms are different in size, which I don't believe is the case. Any shop with half a brain should be able to match those specs for $100-200. Possibly with the stock hats too. However, the CS comes with stickier tires to take advantage of the more aggressive alignment. Not something you would ever feel or benefit from, unless you're at the track and you're a pro.
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      08-04-2020, 04:49 AM   #5
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763M wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires and M-CCB: an improvement for dry road handling over 788M wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires and the heavier steel M Sport Brakes (2NH) (improved unsprung / rotational weight).

I doubt any changes of other road handling hardware (apart from Adaptive M Suspension). Maybe some tweaking of existing hardware settings.
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      08-04-2020, 05:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19x View Post
Geometry is just a fancy word for a slightly altered alignment, unless suspension arms are different in size, which I don't believe is the case. Any shop with half a brain should be able to match those specs for $100-200. Possibly with the stock hats too. However, the CS comes with stickier tires to take advantage of the more aggressive alignment. Not something you would ever feel or benefit from, unless you're at the track and you're a pro.
I'm keen to know if m division have a more aggressive alignment in their locker
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      08-04-2020, 07:07 AM   #7
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There's an extra 0.4° negative camber up front and various software calibration changes in various systems for the new tyres and dampers.
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      08-04-2020, 07:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
There's an extra 0.4° negative camber up front and various software calibration changes in various systems for the new tyres and dampers.
Good info - is there any details out in public domain ? If so please share any links...
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      08-04-2020, 10:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
There's an extra 0.4° negative camber up front and various software calibration changes in various systems for the new tyres and dampers.
I believe the different alignment specs are merely because of the use of adaptive dampers.

The also camber specs in the standard models also vary, with or without AS..

So it's not necessarily a performance enhancement but a specification based on the use of suspension.


.
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      08-04-2020, 10:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I believe the different alignment specs are merely because of the use of adaptive dampers.

The also camber specs in the standard models also vary, with or without AS..

So it's not necessarily a performance enhancement but a specification based on the use of suspension.


.
Poochie - the variance in the F30 d'sheet you posted is more to do with ride height than optional adaptive suspension. IIRC on F30 models optional adaptive and or sport suspension sit slightly lower than standard passive setup hence the delta in camber and caster angles. Looking a photos of M2CS, its ride height looks very similar to M2C... BP
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      08-04-2020, 11:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Poochie - the variance in the F30 d'sheet you posted is more to do with ride height than optional adaptive suspension. IIRC on F30 models optional adaptive and or sport suspension sit slightly lower than standard passive setup hence the delta in camber and caster angles. Looking a photos of M2CS, its ride height looks very similar to M2C... BP
I was thinking ride height looks higher for CS, and not in a good way.
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      08-04-2020, 09:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
There's an extra 0.4° negative camber up front and various software calibration changes in various systems for the new tyres and dampers.
Good info - is there any details out in public domain ? If so please share any links...
It's somewhere in the big mega $83600 US price CS thread. A German review mentioned it.
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      08-04-2020, 09:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Poochie - the variance in the F30 d'sheet you posted is more to do with ride height than optional adaptive suspension. IIRC on F30 models optional adaptive and or sport suspension sit slightly lower than standard passive setup hence the delta in camber and caster angles. Looking a photos of M2CS, its ride height looks very similar to M2C... BP
I was thinking ride height looks higher for CS, and not in a good way.
No. You are just seeing show car pictures that haven't settled. They have the same perfect ride height as the stock M2C.
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      08-04-2020, 10:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
No. You are just seeing show car pictures that haven't settled. They have the same perfect ride height as the stock M2C.
That's excellent news. I had been researching the m performance HAS setup as a solution.
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      08-14-2020, 05:45 PM   #15
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extract german car magazine road test on m2CS

front toe in 0'06" camber 1'48" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'18" & -1'14 to -1'44"
rear toe in 0'16" camber 1'24" - respective ranges 0'10" to 0'22" & -1'35 to -2'05"

Std M2/M2C alignment ranges:-

front (nominal) toe in 0'05" & camber -1'29" - respective ranges -0'01" to 0'11" & range -0'59 to -1'59"
rear (nominal) toe in 0'08" & camber -1'50" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'14" & range -1'30 to -2'10"
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      08-14-2020, 06:54 PM   #16
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So in decimal degrees that's

0.10 toe, 1.80 camber in the front
0.27 toe, 1.40 camber in the back

That's not far from what I'm running on the OG (0.05, 1.8 and 0.10, 1.6)
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      08-15-2020, 04:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
So in decimal degrees that's

0.10 toe, 1.80 camber in the front
0.27 toe, 1.40 camber in the back

That's not far from what I'm running on the OG (0.05, 1.8 and 0.10, 1.6)
Ditto for my ogm2

front 0.05 toe-in and -2.25 camber

rear 0.1 toe-in and -1.5 camber
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      09-17-2020, 08:08 AM   #18
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Bumping this for the Camber discussion. In a recent post that referenced a pilot sport cup 2 document for Porsche from 2018 it mentioned the minimum camber for the cup 2 was -1.5 degrees and no more than -4 degrees iirc.

My guess is that this range is highly dependent upon the overall suspension geometry? If not, then it would seem that the CS would need more camber to get into the middle of optimum range if running Cup 2s and the spec range was still valid for this model tire.
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      09-17-2020, 12:36 PM   #19
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Great info. It's good to know that BMW finally figured out what kind of alignment settings help these cars rotate.

The 1M came from the factory with -1.1° camber in the front and -1.6 in the rear, and understeered horribly at the limit. It's nice to see a little bit more negative camber upfront compared to the rear.

I currently run -2.5 front and -1.8 rear on my track prepped 1M with square wheel/tire setup.
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      09-18-2020, 01:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Bumping this for the Camber discussion. In a recent post that referenced a pilot sport cup 2 document for Porsche from 2018 it mentioned the minimum camber for the cup 2 was -1.5 degrees and no more than -4 degrees iirc.

My guess is that this range is highly dependent upon the overall suspension geometry? If not, then it would seem that the CS would need more camber to get into the middle of optimum range if running Cup 2s and the spec range was still valid for this model tire.
Extract from MPSC2R tech bulletin attached
"Wheel Camber can be adjusted to distribute load evenly across the tyre for track use. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R tyres work well between -1.5 degrees and -3 degrees, but should never be run with more than than -4 degrees of camber."
https://marketing.michelin.co.uk/p/P...etin_PSC2R.pdf

Probably a reasonable go-by for reg MPSC2 tyres as well perhaps ?
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      09-18-2020, 01:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Extract from MPSC2R tech bulletin attached
"Wheel Camber can be adjusted to distribute load evenly across the tyre for track use. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R tyres work well between -1.5 degrees and -3 degrees, but should never be run with more than than -4 degrees of camber."
https://marketing.michelin.co.uk/p/P...etin_PSC2R.pdf

Probably a reasonable go-by for reg MPSC2 tyres as well perhaps ?
After 1 track day (5x30 min sessions at Hockenheimring) in the M2CS stock alignment, outside front shoulders on the Cup2s were starting to show signs of uneven wear. Rears looked perfect. I didn't get a picture, but I don't think the fronts would last many more track days.

Of course many things at play, driving style, type of track, track conditions... On this particular day it was 95F ambient and hard to keep tire pressures and temps in check.
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      09-18-2020, 05:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHAP13 View Post
After 1 track day (5x30 min sessions at Hockenheimring) in the M2CS stock alignment, outside front shoulders on the Cup2s were starting to show signs of uneven wear. Rears looked perfect. I didn't get a picture, but I don't think the fronts would last many more track days.

Of course many things at play, driving style, type of track, track conditions... On this particular day it was 95F ambient and hard to keep tire pressures and temps in check.
That seems to be in line with what appears to be too little front camber in factory form. I was think about -2.5 up front and tires would likely still wear evenly on street. I'll do a little more research. It may be a hybrid between what the M2 crowd has been running and what the m4 with adaptive dampers run. I'm having track connect sensors installed at delivery and will also have an alignment done. I learned my lesson with the last car trusting it was good from factory.
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