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      09-14-2020, 05:03 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I bought this heap of junk which promises similar results to the garmin (no coaching though) but never got anything out of it.

https://www.autosportlabs.com/produc...turetrack-mk2/

Tried it on my Focus RS where I could get "wrong" OBD data out of it but it would never ever record or recognise a track.

I tried it in the M2C with the M2 preset and no matter what I do no data comes out.

Its really burnt me on these types of devices.

I did try this once which works well but at the time I was new to the M2C (and RWD tracking) on a very wet Zandvoort so couldnt use it to its full potential.

https://apextrackcoach.com/

The low level of info is actually nice to help you concentrate and the data that came out easy enough to understand without needing a race engineer

They also have an OBD dongle for it now.

Yeah lot's of options to spend money on. I have used Racechrono for years, VERY happy with it!

Good collection of data from OBD2, my tire temp cameras, Gopro video

If I only could find the secret CAN bus pids for steering angle and brake pressure


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      09-14-2020, 06:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
Yeah lot's of options to spend money on. I have used Racechrono for years, VERY happy with it!

Good collection of data from OBD2, my tire temp cameras, Gopro video

If I only could find the secret CAN bus pids for steering angle and brake pressure


Maybe this helps with the CAN steering and brake pids

Set the baud rate to 500K, hope this was my issue...
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      09-14-2020, 11:34 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Maybe this helps with the CAN steering and brake pids

Set the baud rate to 500K, hope this was my issue...


Woooooooow!
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      09-16-2020, 03:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Maybe this helps with the CAN steering and brake pids

Set the baud rate to 500K, hope this was my issue...
Would you happen to know if this information is exposed via the OBD2 port? I have my racechrono reading from that, but like MagnusT, I could never figure out the correct PID for brake pressure.
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      09-16-2020, 03:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Maybe this helps with the CAN steering and brake pids

Set the baud rate to 500K, hope this was my issue...
Would you happen to know if this information is exposed via the OBD2 port? I have my racechrono reading from that, but like MagnusT, I could never figure out the correct PID for brake pressure.
I don't think it is. I thi k only direct canbus connection can pull it.
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      09-16-2020, 04:08 PM   #50
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This

https://racechrono.com/forum/discuss...h-bluetooth-le
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      09-16-2020, 04:14 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
I don't think it is. I thi k only direct canbus connection can pull it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
Heh, funny enough I was just reading that thread and github project. Seems like it's a little more involved - a lot of effort for just one PID! Although it could be argued the brake pressure is one of the most important stats to have in the data log
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      09-16-2020, 05:21 PM   #52
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I'll switch over to that for all car data and not use my OBDLink LX OBD2 bluetooth dongle anymore. Faster update rate on rpm and so on too
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      09-16-2020, 05:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
I'll switch over to that for all car data and not use my OBDLink LX OBD2 bluetooth dongle anymore. Faster update rate on rpm and so on too
I just tapped directly into the canbus wires in the FEM for my aim unit. Was pretty easy and have all the available data at my fingertips.

Now I just need to figure out how to use it all
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      09-18-2020, 01:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
Would you happen to know if this information is exposed via the OBD2 port? I have my racechrono reading from that, but like MagnusT, I could never figure out the correct PID for brake pressure.
I think its not possible via the OBD. I don't understand why thats the case but every telemetry based instal I have seen on the F8X series needs you to tap into the can network directly, specifically by the FEM module.

I think the connectors use MCP 2.8 contacts. Im going to try and source some and make a harness so that you don't need to splice anything (having had several older cars with messed up looms I want to avoid splicing).
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      09-18-2020, 03:34 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I think its not possible via the OBD. I don't understand why thats the case but every telemetry based instal I have seen on the F8X series needs you to tap into the can network directly, specifically by the FEM module.

I think the connectors use MCP 2.8 contacts. Im going to try and source some and make a harness so that you don't need to splice anything (having had several older cars with messed up looms I want to avoid splicing).
A harness would be pretty sweet. It would basically be a 1-X splitter right? One for high and one for low?
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      09-18-2020, 03:59 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
A harness would be pretty sweet. It would basically be a 1-X splitter right? One for high and one for low?
Yup would be like a 4 in one Y spliter for Can Hi, Can Lo, + and -

My device is connected via an RJ45 so I will make one end of the Y the RJ45, the other will be a 4 pin plug and the last end will simply be pins.

OEM pins go into a counter 4 pin plug and the pin ends of the Y cable go into the OEM connector.
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      09-20-2020, 06:15 PM   #57
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MagnusT - I just watched your YT video of the Catalyst apparently working as intended. How did the rest of the day go? Any thoughts on whether it provided feedback that allowed you to find time on track?

I’m very interested in hearing about your experience.

Thanks for documenting your experiences so far!
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      09-20-2020, 08:48 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
A harness would be pretty sweet. It would basically be a 1-X splitter right? One for high and one for low?
Yup would be like a 4 in one Y spliter for Can Hi, Can Lo, + and -

My device is connected via an RJ45 so I will make one end of the Y the RJ45, the other will be a 4 pin plug and the last end will simply be pins.

OEM pins go into a counter 4 pin plug and the pin ends of the Y cable go into the OEM connector.
I did this for my aim solo unit. Have a small 4 pin aviation connector that taps into can bus and switched power.

That connects to a small relay box then into my aim.

The reason for the relax box is there was an issue with the aim unit drawing power from the canbus even when it was shut off. The relay disconnects the can wires when it loses 12v power.
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      09-21-2020, 01:31 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
I did this for my aim solo unit. Have a small 4 pin aviation connector that taps into can bus and switched power.

That connects to a small relay box then into my aim.

The reason for the relax box is there was an issue with the aim unit drawing power from the canbus even when it was shut off. The relay disconnects the can wires when it loses 12v power.
I saw your post somewhere about that, I plan on removing my unit so I hope I can skip the relay step
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      09-21-2020, 04:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
MagnusT - I just watched your YT video of the Catalyst apparently working as intended. How did the rest of the day go? Any thoughts on whether it provided feedback that allowed you to find time on track?

I’m very interested in hearing about your experience.

Thanks for documenting your experiences so far!
For me, I'm not very impressed so far. But I'm absolutely still learning how it's best used.

Seems it doesn't take into account traffic on previous laps when giving driving tips?

And the "Apex earlier" in my session I really couldn't get since it's sort of impossible. If she didn't meen the right AFTER the one she says it is. Maybe.


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      09-21-2020, 06:28 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
For me, I'm not very impressed so far. But I'm absolutely still learning how it's best used.

Seems it doesn't take into account traffic on previous laps when giving driving tips?

And the "Apex earlier" in my session I really couldn't get since it's sort of impossible. If she didn't meen the right AFTER the one she says it is. Maybe.


Seems you know this track inside out, do you think thats maybe why the catalyst only gives so much feedback?

or is there some kind of setting to prevent information overload?

also have you made any vids with data solely from the catalyst? (I think your current overlay is from data you have acquired no?

Holy moly the understeer moment haha
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      09-21-2020, 07:17 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Seems you know this track inside out, do you think thats maybe why the catalyst only gives so much feedback?

or is there some kind of setting to prevent information overload?

also have you made any vids with data solely from the catalyst? (I think your current overlay is from data you have acquired no?

Holy moly the understeer moment haha
This is with the "talk more" setting A. K. A "advanced race coach"

My friend also drove and below is his second session in the less talkative mode "race coach"

This video shows data from Racechrono. If you export video from the Catalyst it contains nothing extra, just the camera video. No data overlay. But if you watch the video on the Catalyst it shows some. And more importantly it has a number of pages with data, tips on how to improve on different sections an so on. The in car coaching is just one part of it all

And yes, I'm not seconds off what's possible, I think if you have just a handful of tenths left the Catalyst might be of limited help, at least coaching while out on the track it seems. The analysis and tips on the tablet might help but I'm still trying to figure out how I can transform the tablet info to real benefits on track.


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      09-21-2020, 09:43 AM   #63
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Interesting point about traffic, MagnusT. I’d imagine that would be challenging for the Catalyst to take into account, but a good consideration.

I watched an interview with Peter Krause the other day (I won’t post a link as it was quite long and primarily just a sales pitch). He acknowledged that local knowledge, such as where you might want to throw away a turn in order to better set up for what follows. Sounds like you found an instance of this.

Thanks again for documenting your experiences. It’s providing a good balance to the Garmin marketing generated content that’s out there. I’m still thinking it could be valuable for after-session review, but maybe not for in session coaching. That may be okay, just not quite as powerful as they make it out to be.
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      09-21-2020, 09:48 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
This is with the "talk more" setting A. K. A "advanced race coach"

My friend also drove and below is his second session in the less talkative mode "race coach"

This video shows data from Racechrono. If you export video from the Catalyst it contains nothing extra, just the camera video. No data overlay. But if you watch the video on the Catalyst it shows some. And more importantly it has a number of pages with data, tips on how to improve on different sections an so on. The in car coaching is just one part of it all

And yes, I'm not seconds off what's possible, I think if you have just a handful of tenths left the Catalyst might be of limited help, at least coaching while out on the track it seems. The analysis and tips on the tablet might help but I'm still trying to figure out how I can transform the tablet info to real benefits on track.


hmm even your friend did not get as much FB as I expected. The Apexpro gives FB on every corner (all be it only lights).

I think what would be really handy is an "ideal line" and maybe "ideal speed" or "ideal Gs" on the unit with the cars real time position relative to it. Although I suspect the GPS refresh and signal quality are the limiting factor here.
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      09-21-2020, 10:36 AM   #65
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Yeah I agree that feedback is surprisingly sparse. My friend Janne did consistently improve his time each lap so the Catalyst was probably happy about his driving improvements, but still, he mostly got only cheerful pep talk comments.

I might go to another track tomorrow to record some more. This track is in the database (Mantorp Park). Will be interesting to see if it behaves differently on that more open faster track.


Regarding traffic, they use the camera to detect the track edges. So very little effort needed to add detection of cars too. This is readily available code libraries to use. Maybe they are detecting cars already but haven't put it to proper use yet in the coaching algorithms.
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      09-21-2020, 11:55 AM   #66
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Someone in one of my FB groups got one of these too. Here's what he had to say about it:
Quote:
In case anyone was thinking about one of these - let me just say, you will not regret the purchase!! I used it at WRLS today and the results were amazing. First class video and automatic division into segments and laps, but more importantly, actionable feedback. Brake later here, find the line better there and associated time gains with each fix. Then you select which ones you want audio prompting for - I used earplug style headphones and a Bluetooth adapter - and it literally dictates what to do as you drive the next session. Hardware is also very well designed and easy to install/take in and out. Very, very impressed.
In response to the question of how it compares to an actual person in-car coach:
Quote:
I wouldn’t go quite that far because the live instruction is far more effective and more frequently engaging - this wouldn’t benefit a beginner much IMHO, and having a live coach would always be the best option. but it’s a perfect in between for when you can’t take a coach and you’re looking to hone specific corners/segments etc.
About data tie in:
Quote:
it doesn’t do can or obd - i hope they add it later (no reason they couldn’t via Bluetooth like they did with the Waylens) and I already have the solo 2 as well so have been using both �� it’s really all about track position and comparison of your line and position to determine braking and accel against their baseline models. It works surprisingly well and IMHO is more actionable than the solo data. Not to mention the thing literally snaps off the mount and can provide the recommendations and immediate video overlay right after your session without any cumbersome software. It’s cool!
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