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      12-21-2023, 05:52 PM   #1
tomy93
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M2 Stage 2 downgrade decission... Drive a slow car fast vs drive fast car slow

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Hey, I have a manual 2016 F87 which I bought second-hand. The previous owner used to take it to the track, it is heavily moded: Stage 2 ~430hp, ECU Mapping, M Performance exhaust, CTS Intake, coil-overs, etc. But I'm not a track person (also there is just one shitty-maintained circuit in my city).
I come from 600cc motorcycles which I love because of the controlled sense of speed and the higher rpm sound... So I feel the car is too fast for streets and highways. It reaches very fast speeds without going high rpms...

I was thinking of downgrading the ECU Mapping to stock but maintaining everything else. I know I won't get a motorcycle feeling but will it l be still fun? or maybe I will regret it? Will I still be able to fishtail my car in Sport mode? (I never go Sport+)

Thank you!
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      12-21-2023, 08:44 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by tomy93 View Post
Hey, I have a manual 2016 F87 which I bought second-hand. The previous owner used to take it to the track, it is heavily moded: Stage 2 ~430hp, ECU Mapping, M Performance exhaust, CTS Intake, coil-overs, etc. But I'm not a track person (also there is just one shitty-maintained circuit in my city).
I come from 600cc motorcycles which I love because of the controlled sense of speed and the higher rpm sound... So I feel the car is too fast for streets and highways. It reaches very fast speeds without going high rpms...

I was thinking of downgrading the ECU Mapping to stock but maintaining everything else. I know I won't get a motorcycle feeling but will it l be still fun? or maybe I will regret it? Will I still be able to fishtail my car in Sport mode? (I never go Sport+)

Thank you!
It depends on your mods, if you have an hpfp (high pressure fuel pump), down pipe, injectors etc. then you won't be able to go back to stock tuning because those afforementioned parts require custom tuning.

In terms of fish tailing the car in sport, yeah you'll probably still be able to do it. But personally I don't really like how the car reacts with traction control fully on, it cuts power and makes it hard to control the car with the throttle, aka it doesn't respond how I want it to.
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      12-22-2023, 07:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomy93 View Post
Hey, I have a manual 2016 F87 which I bought second-hand. The previous owner used to take it to the track, it is heavily moded: Stage 2 ~430hp, ECU Mapping, M Performance exhaust, CTS Intake, coil-overs, etc. But I'm not a track person (also there is just one shitty-maintained circuit in my city).
I come from 600cc motorcycles which I love because of the controlled sense of speed and the higher rpm sound... So I feel the car is too fast for streets and highways. It reaches very fast speeds without going high rpms...

I was thinking of downgrading the ECU Mapping to stock but maintaining everything else. I know I won't get a motorcycle feeling but will it l be still fun? or maybe I will regret it? Will I still be able to fishtail my car in Sport mode? (I never go Sport+)

Thank you!
1. This car was designed to have FUN either on the street, or at low-level HPDE's, and the stock power is quite enough for both.

2. Stock power + charge pipe, catted down-pipe, inlet, dv and BM3 stage 1 tune will give you the best response and best driving experience. Adding the bigger intercooler and significantly more power of Stage 2 makes the car worse (IMO) except for the numbers.

3. How tossable and fun a car is has a LOT to do with the tires. Choose Firehawk Indy tires for pure, lasting fun.

4. The M2 is way too heavy to be anything like a motorcycle, choose a fantastic condition Lotus Elise/Exige for the same money and be much happier in that regard (as long as you're not taller than 6'). But overall The Elise will not be as fun in some ways because it's meant to stick vs fishtail.

I couldn't choose, so I have both, and they work fantastically for me.

My Boys III by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr
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      12-22-2023, 09:02 PM   #4
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Cars are just too fast now a days and the m2, even at stock power is the same. You don't get to do much until you are at illegal speeds, you hit end of rpms in third gear and you going to jail lol. Stock will not make the car slow enough that you can really ring it out. But yeah even stock, traction off and you will light the rear tires no problem and as Mphatic said with the right tires it can be very easy, with grippier tires then you have to put a little work into it.
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      12-26-2023, 05:13 PM   #5
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I recently got a 2017 that had been modded to stage 2+ by the previous owner. As soon as I could I put a stage 1 tune on it. Car ran better. Then I put the original catted downpipe back in. The quiet was so much nicer.

Even stock, this car is still more than fast enough for the road. I did a few pulls today on the stage 1 before I flash to stock, and it was still over 100mph in 3rd. There is no way to safely (or legally) approach the limits of this car on the street. It's more than raucous enough to have fun with.

For track it will still be faster than my last car, and way stickier around the corners. I'll have so much much to learn just handling the additional cornering capability that more power is the last thing I need.
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      12-26-2023, 05:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
As soon as I could I put a stage 1 tune on it. Car ran better.

If that's ever the case, then something was seriously wrong with the stage 2 tune, or it was too agressive for the fuel quality and or mods on the car. Hence great importance of data logging after making any tuning changes.
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      12-26-2023, 07:33 PM   #7
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I love my build thus far. I feel like it’s the best of both worlds.

5” intercooler for faster response. FBO and high flow cat, making 385whp and 400wtq.

My ethanol map makes around 425whp and 435wtq.

I call it the M2 comp map and the M2 CS map

It’s been a long time since I dyno’d my car but from what I remember, the power gains were spilt between the downpipe and the tune. Each gave around 15-20whp/wtq gains. The tune a little more so.

On the stock map with a downpipe alone it was pretty quick. I don’t think a downpipe and a tune is enough gains to completely mess up the fun of the car or even adding E85. It’s still punchy stock but if you tried it and didn’t like it, you could always take it off.
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      12-30-2023, 07:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
If that's ever the case, then something was seriously wrong with the stage 2 tune, or it was too aggressive for the fuel quality and or mods on the car. Hence great importance of data logging after making any tuning changes.
Maybe it was fuel. Supposedly the tune on it was a 93 octane tune. 93 is very hard to find in my area, and it was likely typically 50/50 91/93 octane. I never did full throttle pulls while it had that tune, as I knew it wasn't good to run at the lower octane.

But even just idling, the Stage 2 just didn't feel right. The idle would wander and even just puttering around town the engine felt rough. I wouldn't think that idling and low power driving would be that affected by 91 on a 93 tune.

In any case, personally, I'm happier on the Stage 1. In fact, today I flashed it back to the stock M2 factory tune. I'll give it a couple weeks and do some logs to see how it compares with Stage 1.
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      12-30-2023, 08:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
Maybe it was fuel. Supposedly the tune on it was a 93 octane tune. 93 is very hard to find in my area, and it was likely typically 50/50 91/93 octane. I never did full throttle pulls while it had that tune, as I knew it wasn't good to run at the lower octane.

But even just idling, the Stage 2 just didn't feel right. The idle would wander and even just puttering around town the engine felt rough. I wouldn't think that idling and low power driving would be that affected by 91 on a 93 tune.

In any case, personally, I'm happier on the Stage 1. In fact, today I flashed it back to the stock M2 factory tune. I'll give it a couple weeks and do some logs to see how it compares with Stage 1.
If it's harsh idling and putting around, it's likely there was something wrong with the car. You need to log even with a stage 1 tune.
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