[jmg]

Both great cars. Having owned 8 bimmers so far, I'd choose the Porsche just for variety. M2CS, though, might be a bimmer I wouldn't mind keeping for life because it's so versatile.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

Bimmer dudes reproduce and need backseats for offspring, or otherwise have friends they need to haul. Porsche bros just have magazine stats and internet articles which need no more space than their frunks provide. Don't @ me

🤣🤣🤣 you're hilarious and nuts haha

[NISFAN]

Both fantastic cars, I'd be happy with either.

[e90335e36m3]

Any time a BMW is beaten all of you get so butthurt. Get over it, Porsche has always produced better performing cars because their core focus has always been to incrementally improve performance. BMW, not so much.

[apptest]

�

[cc3]

The GT4 would totally dominate the CS wouldn't be a fair contest. So I guess they tested it against the lesser GTS. Shows how short BMW came with the brief on the CS. The new Lotus Emira will beat all of them and it looks fabulous

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Any time a BMW is beaten all of you get so butthurt. Get over it, Porsche has always produced better performing cars because their core focus has always been to incrementally improve performance. BMW, not so much.

Has a newer BMW ever come out that wasn't measurably better than the previous, little by little?

What's your definition of incremental?

T

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by cc3

The GT4 would totally dominate the CS wouldn't be a fair contest. So I guess they tested it against the lesser GTS. Shows how short BMW came with the brief on the CS. The new Lotus Emira will beat all of them and it looks fabulous

No lotus is suitable for a daily driver. Just weekend fun. Ability to read wiring diagram is a must.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Has a newer BMW ever come out that wasn't measurably better than the previous, little by little?

What's your definition of incremental?

T

They're better without a doubt, but the better is always offset by something worse, especially weight. M4 GTS is a perfect example, it's kitch. It's not in the same league as a Cayman GT4, let alone a GT3RS. It looks the part, has all the "because race car" features (e.g. water injection), but can it put its power down? Nope. Can it carry its weight in the corners? Nope.

In fact, the inability to put down the power was one of the biggest complaints about the F8x platform. They gave it all the power in the world, but it couldn't use that power. In the end it was faster than the E9x but only because the power and torque was on another level. To me that is faux incremental improvement. Two steps forward, one step back.

Porsche has been pumping out around 500 naturally aspirated HP in the GT3 for at least 2 generations running 11 second quarter mile times without any issue. Seems like BMW finally fixed this in the G8x platform. Still a fat, ugly pig.

BMW wants to do everything well and that's it's appeal. Pretty good at everything overall. Porsche has always focused on performance first, and does it way better than BMW.

Porsche has been refining the same design generation after generation, to squeeze every last bit of performance out of their cars.

Always was and always will be better. You don't see many Porsche owners aspiring to own M series cars.

In any case, this forum goes crazy regardless of the comparison. They would find reasons why an M2CS is better performer vs. a Viper ACR or a GT3RS or even an F1 car.

I own an F8x CS, and love every minute of it, for what it is, for its balance, but I know better than to compare it against the performance versions of the Porsche.

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

They're better without a doubt, but the better is always offset by something worse, especially weight. M4 GTS is a perfect example, it's kitch. It's not in the same league as a Cayman GT4, let alone a GT3RS. It looks the part, has all the "because race car" features (e.g. water injection), but can it put its power down? Nope. Can it carry its weight in the corners? Nope.

In fact, the inability to put down the power was one of the biggest complaints about the F8x platform. They gave it all the power in the world, but it couldn't use that power. In the end it was faster than the E9x but only because the power and torque was on another level. To me that is faux incremental improvement. Two steps forward, one step back.

Porsche has been pumping out around 500 naturally aspirated HP in the GT3 for at least 2 generations running 11 second quarter mile times without any issue. Seems like BMW finally fixed this in the G8x platform. Still a fat, ugly pig.

BMW wants to do everything well and that's it's appeal. Pretty good at everything overall. Porsche has always focused on performance first, and does it way better than BMW.

Porsche has been refining the same design generation after generation, to squeeze every last bit of performance out of their cars.

Always was and always will be better. You don't see many Porsche owners aspiring to own M series cars.

In any case, this forum goes crazy regardless of the comparison. They would find reasons why an M2CS is better performer vs. a Viper ACR or a GT3RS or even an F1 car.

I own an F8x CS, and love every minute of it, for what it is, for its balance, but I know better than to compare it against the performance versions of the Porsche.

Fully in agreement with you.
Porsche is making by far better sportscars. Caymans GTS is just built as a better sports-car than M2CS without any doubt. But on this forum you may find many opinions that M2CS is a better sports car than GT4, leaving GTS as not worth mentioning at all.

But that is so logical to expect to see so many bmw fanboys defending their choice on a bmw forum in a M2CS section. Although I am very much amazed how blind one can be saying that black is white and vice versa.


P.S. I do own several M cars and just one Porsche GT at the moment.

[Davil]

I've never defended my choice ever. I have zero interest in a Cayman. To me, it's an ugly little pointless car. I bought the car I wanted. It has exceeded my expectations which were already high and I could not be happier with my choice. That seems to upset people for some sort of reason or other.

[HelpMeHelpU]

It was a similar article in MotorTrend that got me interested in the M2 in the first place. I have had (and love) a GT4 for five years and was looking for another fun MT car with a back seat. I got tired of seeing prices of 997s rise ten grand a week, and I lucked into a buildable allocation for a M2C (it's not a CS, I understand, but for my purpose, should suffice). It just arrived last week and am looking forward to adding miles this week to see what I think about it.

[Darth One]

So much defensiveness and attacking of the character of magazine writers and Porsche owners. As per usual @ bpost

The M2CS is an awesome car. So what if a magazine writer still prefers a Cayman, do we really have to lash out against an entire community like that?

[cc3]

Originally Posted by MNoob

No lotus is suitable for a daily driver. Just weekend fun. Ability to read wiring diagram is a must.

Now owned by Geely. Major investment in new factory, engineering processes etc

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.t...92542.amp.html

https://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/203463/l...lpine-a110?amp

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by Darth One

So much defensiveness and attacking of the character of magazine writers and Porsche owners. As per usual @ bpost

The M2CS is an awesome car. So what if a magazine writer still prefers a Cayman, do we really have to lash out against an entire community like that?

It's the way of the irrational fan boy. It's not a crime for another car to be better than a BMW
Repeat after me…🤣

Personally, I think the price of an M2 CS is - here in the UK at least - daft.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by cc3

Now owned by Geely. Major investment in new factory, engineering processes etc

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.t...92542.amp.html

https://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/203463/l...lpine-a110?amp

Perfect. Maybe they will release wiring diagrams in color😉.

Dealer network would have to improve (in the US) for a Lotus to be worthwhile as a daily. Too many issues with too little support.

[Montaver]

Having owned an M2C and now a GT4 it's an interesting comparison. If you want a manual, small, RWD car with proper backseats nothing can really compete with the M2. Great chassis, but numb front end and the S55 is ultimately a pretty uninspiring power plant. Can't beat an NA engine for a drivers car in my opinion, for daily torque wafting turbos are great. A more interesting comparison would be an e9x M3 with the Cayman, as it can compete on feel and power train. As for fun, I have way more fun in my GT4 than I ever did in my M2C. It's visceral, connected, and engaging in a way any f8x car can never be.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by MNoob

Perfect. Maybe they will release wiring diagrams in color😉.

Dealer network would have to improve (in the US) for a Lotus to be worthwhile as a daily. Too many issues with too little support.

Bit like BMW - still BMW is almost as good as Renault but just ahead of Ford. Shows they are now a brand that has lost its way. Just another mass market manufacturer selling through big discounts with a pretty unremarkable product range 😀😀

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-c...-manufacturers

[Hapkin]

Originally Posted by Alex_bm

Maybe in a specific area code. I personally know 30+ category driving caymans. Getting a boxster for myself next year and still have 20+ years to get there.
I have driven M2 and M2 comp and wasn't impressed. Steering is complete devote of any road feel. Can't say if CS is that much better, but between Cayman S and M2 comp for me personally, there is simply no contest. P car wins by a significant margin.

CS is the game changer due to 40kg less unsprung mass with the carbon ceramics.i had more fun and did faster laptimes with this than my 997.2 Targa 4S 6spd and also, had no problems keeping up and passing GT4's. GT3's were faster no doubt. Way less terminal understeer in the CS at the limit compared to M2C or OGM2. Suspension way a regeneration. Beautiful damping, and stiff chassis. You feel the lower center of gravity and less unsprung mass with every input.

Revving the CS to 7500 gives you useful revs to stay in the power band, Street with throttle and avoid time losing gearshifts.

Plus M2CS is more fun in my hands than GT 4 on the road 100% of the time because of the long Porsche gearing AND better damping of the CS.

Lastly, at the end of my track day, I comfortably drove 2 other guys home because their McClaren broke down. So people practicality is inarguable.

GT4 is technically faster, feels lower, but is much stiffer sprung, and at the redline is super fun on the limit. But it is a little TOO German clinical feeling for my tastes. GT4 is a fantastic car, but I chose CS over GT4.

For those of you comparing M2C to GT4, you need to drive a CS at the track. It's a different animal than the. M2C.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by Hapkin

CS is the game changer due to 40kg less unsprung mass with the carbon ceramics.i had more fun and did faster laptimes with this than my 997.2 Targa 4S 6spd and also, had no problems keeping up and passing GT4's. GT3's were faster no doubt. Way less terminal understeer in the CS at the limit compared to M2C or OGM2. Suspension way a regeneration. Beautiful damping, and stiff chassis. You feel the lower center of gravity and less unsprung mass with every input.

Revving the CS to 7500 gives you useful revs to stay in the power band, Street with throttle and avoid time losing gearshifts.

Plus M2CS is more fun in my hands than GT 4 on the road 100% of the time because of the long Porsche gearing AND better damping of the CS.

Lastly, at the end of my track day, I comfortably drove 2 other guys home because their McClaren broke down. So people practicality is inarguable.

GT4 is technically faster, feels lower, but is much stiffer sprung, and at the redline is super fun on the limit. But it is a little TOO German clinical feeling for my tastes. GT4 is a fantastic car, but I chose CS over GT4.

For those of you comparing M2C to GT4, you need to drive a CS at the track. It's a different animal than the. M2C.

M2CS is 10 seconds a lap slower than GT4 same professional driver. That's a light year. Even slower than 981 GT4

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/christian-gebhardt/

[mchart]

Originally Posted by cc3

M2CS is 10 seconds a lap slower than GT4 same professional driver. That's a light year. Even slower than 981 GT4

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/christian-gebhardt/

No one disputes that, on a track. The fact is the M2CS feels faster driving around in real life due to the engine, and the handling is a massive improvement over the M2C. If you want a track car get the Porsche for sure. However, driving out on some canyon road the M2CS is just way more fun, and for me personally, at Colorado altitudes the engine in the GT4 wasn't enough.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by mchart

No one disputes that, on a track. The fact is the M2CS feels faster driving around in real life due to the engine, and the handling is a massive improvement over the M2C. If you want a track car get the Porsche for sure. However, driving out on some canyon road the M2CS is just way more fun, and for me personally, at Colorado altitudes the engine in the GT4 wasn't enough.

M2CS is a good effort for BMW but they set the bar pretty low these days. No decent sports cars no super/ hyper car and little involvement in serious motor racing. They just turn out heavily discounted metal and rely of past glories. The M2CS is ridiculously over priced in the U.K. I have probably owned about 40 BMW's including all the M's but they do nothing for me these days. Porsche, McLaren are a different league and far more enjoyable. The forthcoming Lotus Emira will be very interesting. Problem with the Lotus is that they have 2 years worth of deposits already as it's that good