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      09-22-2020, 12:48 PM   #1
sygazelle
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Run-flat tire fear sales tactics?

I don't know about you, but as soon as my OEM run flats wear out, I switch to proper go flat tires. I find the ride way better. I haven't had a flat in years and I keep a kit in my car with air compressor in case I get caught in the middle of nowhere.


Of course, tire companies will tell you the car was designed for run flats and try to get you to pay for the higher-priced, possibly higher-margin tires. A "tire advisor" at American Tire recently told someone I know that go flat tires are dangerous and 40 series go flats could damage his rim.

What stories have tire dealers told you to try to keep you in run flats?
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      09-22-2020, 12:51 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I don't know about you, but as soon as my OEM run flats wear out, I switch to proper go flat tires. I find the ride way better. I haven't had a flat in years and I keep a kit in my car with air compressor in case I get caught in the middle of nowhere.


Of course, tire companies will tell you the car was designed for run flats and try to get you to pay for the higher-priced, possibly higher-margin tires. A "tire advisor" at American Tire recently told someone I know that go flat tires are dangerous and 40 series go flats could damage his rim.

What stories have tire dealers told you to try to keep you in run flats?

I heard the same stories.
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      09-22-2020, 01:34 PM   #3
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1. Most new tires are far better than old tires of the 60s and 70s. If you get a nail or screw in them, they'll often self-seal with the sticky rubber inside, or at least do it enough that you can drive to a place to get a plug/replacement. If not, then use some sealant.

2. If you actually use the run-flat feature, as in run the tires with insufficient pressure, this ruins the sidewall and it must be replaced. But wait, there's more! You get to buy two or 4 new tires, to match the tread. Or you can possibly buy one and get it shaved down, but either way you are paying a lot more for tires than if you had a non-runflat setup.

3. They won't help you with catastrophic failures, so it's generally the stuff that could be sealed with sealant or plugs.

4. If you frequent deserted stretches with the next major city hundreds of miles away (everyone always seems to claim this) then a spare donut or maybe runflats are in order, but the % of people that really need this is going to be a small % in reality.

I've had a few punctures over the years, but nothing where a runflat would have helped or was necessary. Yes, you are hedging against some crazy one-off, but there's a lot of crazy-one-offs that could happen, such as the engine blowing up. IMO, the runflats are more about a higher price and amount of profit associated with it. It allows them to charge more because you think you are getting something for it, but in reality, what you are getting is never used.
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      09-22-2020, 02:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
.

2. If you actually use the run-flat feature, as in run the tires with insufficient pressure, this ruins the sidewall and it must be replaced. But wait, there's more! You get to buy two or 4 new tires, to match the tread. Or you can possibly buy one and get it shaved down, but either way you are paying a lot more for tires than if you had a non-runflat setup.
Why would this be any different than a non RFT?

Beyond that, the cars actually are designed and suspensions tuned with the stiffer sidewalls of a RFT. This doesn't mean it's tuned to our liking, as bean counters are involved, but they are. Either way, I replace with non RFTs and I order them online so I don't deal with SAs trying to tell me what I need to buy.
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      09-22-2020, 02:45 PM   #5
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A runflat tire can be repaired just as usual: I had mine done a few years ago, still running with no issues. I guess you can even apply the mobility repair kit to it if you feel you need extra distance to cover.

I had the tire monitor warning pop up while driving home after a journey, dead tired, late at night. I found it extremely comfortable to just follow the system's suggestion to take extra care driving and put off the solving till the next day then. Actually, as it turned out a slow puncture, I just kept pumping up the tire once a month until repair.

In a heavy traffic city it's not only uncomfortable/dangerous to fix a tire on the street. It can be a hefty fine as the cameras don't distinguish your emergency.

People report a runflat can be still used severely damaged, when the mobility kit wouldn't work. And as some movie quote goes: "-Damn it!!! -I hope you have a spare wheel! -I do. But I don't have two.".
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      09-22-2020, 03:12 PM   #6
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i think it all depends on usage. if it's your weekend, fun car then by all means upgrade since you wont likely face the conditions where runflats actually provide value.

as a driver who keeps re-fitting these P7 run-flats: (1) i like the safety of the run-flats. i drive the DC beltway and surrounding highways and there's just NO EFFING WAY that i'm stopping to change a tire on the side of any of these roads. i've done that once in 20 years of commuting (in my X3) and it was the most frightening experience of my life...drivers around here are completely insane idiots. run-flats have never failed to get me to the shop for a change, and (2) i really like the look of 18" wheels on this car, so i'm not down-sizing for a fatter tire that might reduce the number of pothole related blowouts.

my commute is fairly consistent (or at least it was pre-covid) so becoming MUCH more aware of potholes has helped me significantly after the first 2 years and 5 blow-outs.
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      09-22-2020, 04:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Why would this be any different than a non RFT?

Beyond that, the cars actually are designed and suspensions tuned with the stiffer sidewalls of a RFT. This doesn't mean it's tuned to our liking, as bean counters are involved, but they are. Either way, I replace with non RFTs and I order them online so I don't deal with SAs trying to tell me what I need to buy.
Because if you plug or use sealant with your run-flat (or normal tire), you obviously didn't need a runflat.

If you run on the sidewalls of the run-flat, which is what it's designed to do in an emergency (flat tire), it compromises the tire. So my point was that if you actually use it as intended (don't care to put air in it and just figure it'll be fine to run it like that to the service station or whatever), you "get" to buy multiple new run-flat tires.

I'm not saying that run-flats can't be repaired, you can plug them just like any tire. I'm just telling you what the dealer and any tire shop is going to tell you.

From Pirelli:
Quote:
7. Run Flat Tires
Always refer to the vehicle owner’s manual with respect to specific safety and operating information
relating to the vehicle. Damaged Run Flat tires or Run Flat tires that have experienced a loss of
pressure should immediately be replaced with another Run Flat tire of identical size and Service
Description (Load Index and Speed Symbol).

Run Flat tires have been developed based on the specifications of the vehicles on which they are
mounted. Accordingly, Run Flat tires should only be mounted on vehicles specifically manufactured to
accommodate Run Flat tires.
Run Flat tires must be mounted in conjunction with a functional Tire Pressure Monitoring System
(TPMS).
The mounting of tires and installation of the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) should be
carried out by an authorized Pirelli dealer
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      09-22-2020, 04:26 PM   #8
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I've heard the "you should keep using runflats because that is what you car's suspension was designed for". Reality is engineering did the best they could starting with a runflat tire which wasn't the best option.

I buy tires online so don't have to hear it now.

I agree runflats give you more security, I'm just not willing to pay the higher price and have to deal with it day to day all for the remote possibility I might get a flat someday. Then if I get a flat with the runflat, with it's 50 mile limit I am likely soon to be buying another tire regardless of whether or not it could be repaired.
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      09-22-2020, 05:38 PM   #9
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Humm, I replaced my Run Flats with fewer than 10k on the odometer. New tires were from Discount Tire, and the rep there didn't try to talk me into run flats. He didn't even mention it.
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      09-22-2020, 05:42 PM   #10
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I have run on non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports in my 2008 335i for the 7-8 yrs that I've owned the car. Just bought 2 new ones for the rear.

I've never had a flat in the BMW but still carry an emergency spare, jack, inflator and other tire repair stuff in the trunk just in case.

Just bought a set of 4 non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports for my 2014 Z51 Corvette Stingray too. Wanted to try the 4s but none were immediately available in the Vette's sizes from Tire Rack, where I buy most of my tires.
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      09-22-2020, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSW View Post
I have run on non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports in my 2008 335i for the 7-8 yrs that I've owned the car. Just bought 2 new ones for the rear.

I've never had a flat in the BMW but still carry an emergency spare, jack, inflator and other tire repair stuff in the trunk just in case.

Just bought a set of 4 non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports for my 2014 Z51 Corvette Stingray too. Wanted to try the 4s but none were immediately available in the Vette's sizes from Tire Rack, where I buy most of my tires.
That's one great garage list there mister!
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      09-22-2020, 07:09 PM   #12
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We call em "run-craps". They are fine for average users, but they are not high performance tires and you can certainly tell the difference. That said they probably are comparable to an ordinary all season tire so unless you're the kind that switches between dedicated summer and winter tires you probably won't care.
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      09-22-2020, 10:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSW View Post
Just bought a set of 4 non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports for my 2014 Z51 Corvette Stingray too. Wanted to try the 4s but none were immediately available in the Vette's sizes from Tire Rack, where I buy most of my tires.
Yeah, getting OEM sizes this year was ridiculous and they should have been produced regardless of COVID, since that would have been happening before any real lockdowns in preparation for the summer tire sales, but supposedly new cars running these sizes OEM scooped up all of the tires, leaving none for the aftermarket. I had to settle for slightly wider front tires (295) than the 285 stock. The 305s were not a problem. Got mine from Costco, but I had to search around a bunch and it was not easy.
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      09-22-2020, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Because if you plug or use sealant with your run-flat (or normal tire), you obviously didn't need a runflat.

If you run on the sidewalls of the run-flat, which is what it's designed to do in an emergency (flat tire), it compromises the tire. So my point was that if you actually use it as intended (don't care to put air in it and just figure it'll be fine to run it like that to the service station or whatever), you "get" to buy multiple new run-flat tires.

I'm not saying that run-flats can't be repaired, you can plug them just like any tire. I'm just telling you what the dealer and any tire shop is going to tell you.

From Pirelli:
Still does not explain why one would have to buy multiple tires of one goes down, that's what I was questioning. I get the potential of having to replace 1 tire, but why a pair or all 4?
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      09-22-2020, 11:28 PM   #15
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unless you are robbing a bank run flats are stupid. A hole big enough to disable you will likely disable a run flat. anything else just pump back up until you get home to plug it 10 mins
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      09-22-2020, 11:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Still does not explain why one would have to buy multiple tires of one goes down, that's what I was questioning. I get the potential of having to replace 1 tire, but why a pair or all 4?
A large % of cars are all-wheel drive and you can't have one or two tires out of tread-ware spec. It's unlikely that you are going to replace just one due to tread-wear. Whether it's side-to-side treadwear or back/front. If you do replace one, it's because you shave down a new one, if your shop will do that, but even still, you are paying the run-flat premium on that one tire. Unless you are installing your tires yourself, most shops won't let you install something against manufacturer recommendations.
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      09-23-2020, 03:21 AM   #17
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I tried to replace only my rear tyres for ps4, where the fronts were still the OE-spec run flats...I was told that I had to replace the rears with run flats, or replace all 4 for non-rft, otherwise the car would be dangerous to drive.

Of course, I walked away from that garage....and the next one who said the same, until I found one who warned me of it but did the work anyhow (the others refused). I ran it like that for over a year, until the fronts needed to be changed, and still can't figure out how it could have been dangerous to have a mixed set...sure it wasn't ideal for handling, but having worse tyres on the rear would hardly have helped!

The first garage even told me it would null my insurance, so I phoned them and they told me it was fine...they basically didn't care!
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      09-23-2020, 05:19 AM   #18
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They're talking rubbish, having mixed set run flats and normal front/rear makes no difference.They just want to sell more tyres through fear.
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      09-23-2020, 07:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
A large % of cars are all-wheel drive and you can't have one or two tires out of tread-ware spec. It's unlikely that you are going to replace just one due to tread-wear. Whether it's side-to-side treadwear or back/front. If you do replace one, it's because you shave down a new one, if your shop will do that, but even still, you are paying the run-flat premium on that one tire. Unless you are installing your tires yourself, most shops won't let you install something against manufacturer recommendations.
Right, so like I was saying, how is this RFT specific?
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      09-23-2020, 07:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
I tried to replace only my rear tyres for ps4, where the fronts were still the OE-spec run flats...I was told that I had to replace the rears with run flats, or replace all 4 for non-rft, otherwise the car would be dangerous to drive.

Of course, I walked away from that garage....and the next one who said the same, until I found one who warned me of it but did the work anyhow (the others refused). I ran it like that for over a year, until the fronts needed to be changed, and still can't figure out how it could have been dangerous to have a mixed set...sure it wasn't ideal for handling, but having worse tyres on the rear would hardly have helped!

The first garage even told me it would null my insurance, so I phoned them and they told me it was fine...they basically didn't care!
I did the same, for about a year I was running rear standard tires with front runflats. I was also warned it would be dangers but with them all being high performance Summer tires, limits far higher than my wife's Acura TSX in all conditions nobody could explain how it would be dangerous. I agree not optimum but people buy SUV's everyday that have very average stopping and handling.
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      09-23-2020, 08:47 AM   #21
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Here's my experience with the run craps. Had the stock ones on my car and kept them on way too long. Driving over imperfections on the road that now my 4S tires just absorb with no drama would feel like driving over a curb with the run craps. This harshness translated into two bent wheels. So the statement that non run craps will damage your wheels is totally false. Not only that, the harshness translated into additional stress on the tires which resulted in one tire having a bubble in the side wall.

In addition, when you go to change out the run craps, you better hope the shop you go to knows how to unmount these tires. I went to Costco and they summarily damaged the finish on all 4 of my prestine 261 wheels.

I've been on non run craps for a few years now and have no regrets. As one of the guys pointed out above, I bought the BMW emergency tire kit and keep it with my car.
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      09-23-2020, 08:58 AM   #22
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I have no issue with the ride quality of factory RFT whatsoever especially in the 440i. I would prefer not to change a flat tire unless absolutely necessary.

I also have a full size pickup truck that has factory off road tires. It is a pain in the butt to do so especially with the tiny jack they give you. I recently replaced one tire due to a large side wall puncture. There were 14K miles on these tires and I didn't hear the tire store recommend replacing more than the one damaged tire.

I've heard, you should replace 2 tires at the same time especially if the set is 1/2 worn.
But if the set is in good condition, I see no reason to replace all the tires. There's nothing wrong with replacing just one tire.
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