[bri1042]

VS the two RSX-S's that I had:

It's been too long to give a direct comparison. I would say, based on my memories of the things, that most of the time the RSX-S was not this stiff, but when it hit an unhappy bit of road that was just a little bit too much for it, it was worse. The M2C is a more consistent level of stiffness than the RSX-S was. I know what to expect from it and random, slightly worse bits of road aren't suddenly back-breaking.

The RSX-S also got upset by bad roads in a way that the M2C never, ever does. Between the torque steer and having to correct for steering upsets due to little bumps and holes, the RSX-S was a lot more a handful to live with. The M2C just takes the hits from icky roads and doesn't care.

The last thing I can say on it is that while the M2C is stiffer than I'd like it to be when I'm tired, I almost never feel it up into my back. Sometimes the RSX-S made me feel like I hit the pothole with the bottom of my spine.

Between the two, there just isn't a comparison. The M2C is a stiff but world-class chassis, and the RSX-S wasn't (though I did have two of them...I loved them for a bunch of years). I had an Integra GS-R before the RSX-S and the chassis was better sorted on the Integra.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

The M2C rides smooth as butter compared to a 718S.

ChrisK, really? Did the 718S you drove have the SPASM option? I've read that with it being lowered 20mm AND if you choose the "sport mode" suspension, the Cayman can be way too harsh.

When I test drove the 718S, the car I drove didn't have SPASM nor PASM, and it felt way too soft to me. In fact, one of the main reasons I chose the M2C over the 718S was because the 718S didn't feel sporty enough for me.

Now, my plan is to buy the 718T when it comes out, because it has SPASM, 20" wheels, and is lowered 20mm, so I'm hoping that it will as sporty as the M2C.

Please do let me know!

[Brandt51]

For next time:

https://www.toyota.com/sienna/

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Okay, just how bad is the ride? I hear a lot of people complain, but i think a lot of people expect luxury car, which this obviously isn't.

You mentioned an RSX-S, i've been in one of those and it was fine, sporty but fine. Is the M2C worse than that?

I care a lot less about ride quality and a lot more about travel length, are people finding they're bottoming out the suspension or is it more just a thing where its uncomfortable?

Firstly Bri, good review. I think overall most of the issues are just due to where you live though. I’m pretty lucky being in Sydney in a “cold” mid winters day where it is 65 degrees F. I do notice a lot more wheelspin once the temperature is below 70 degrees F though. Even in 3rd. Why would you want more power!

I think this car has the best ride handling compromise I’ve ever experienced. To me it is a very smooth riding car, but that is influenced by perspective and past history.

One thing that that I love about this car is I take it on a spirited run through a national park every couple of weeks. There is an incredible mix of roads. Some very bumpy and windy. The car just absorbs every bump and tracks beautifully never being thrown off line. Every time I do this drive I get the same level of amazement at how well it performs and exclaim out loud how much I love the car even if I have no passenger with me. Maybe the car hears me.

[bri1042]

One fun thing: We had a very rainy day yesterday, and I had a bunch of errands to run after work. The roads were soaked and I wasn't looking forward to driving around. I ended up having quite a bit of fun with it. I broke the back end loose a few times from a stop of course, and the TC light did its blinking here and there around corners. This was a good rainy day to evaluate how the car feels with its normal-width tires on it in the wet instead of the overly skinny winter set. Since the summer wheels went back on, we've had plenty of Portland rain but I haven't ended up driving in it much (telework days, lots of days when it rained while I was at work but then it dried before I went home, etc...).

It makes a big difference. I was able to use the traction loss for enjoyment, since it was much more predictable. I think my plan for my winter set (put wider tires on the back, leave the fronts as is) is likely a solid plan.

The work day yesterday was a bit of a horror show of multitasking and craziness. The driving I did afterwards was a reminder that one of the real joys of driving cars like this is what it can do for your mood when you need a boost.

[Economatic]

Although I don't have my M2C yet, your list of pros and cons sounds pretty good bri1042 !

About the ride quality, how was it with your winter wheel & tire setup? Any better? I appreciate your mention of roads downtown because those are pretty awful and make my wife's TRD Pro 4Runner feel like a rough ride. I know of one spot in particular where I bent 2 wheels during my daily comment from/to NoPo.

I find the complaints about the M2 interior comical but I get it's all relative. This will be my first BMW after driving mostly Toyotas and Subarus so it will be a massive step up. I just got rid of my cheap Ford Fiesta commuter car last week and the Subaru is now the daily driver. That feels rather luxurious to me!

[Moflow]

Thanks for the answers on the ride question guys, sounds like i'll be fine. I'm perfectly willing to put up with a harsh ride as well as its well sorted, which it sounds like this car is.

And again, thanks to the OP, writing up a review like this is really helpful for a lot of us i'm sure.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Economatic

Although I don't have my M2C yet, your list of pros and cons sounds pretty good bri1042 !

About the ride quality, how was it with your winter wheel & tire setup? Any better? I appreciate your mention of roads downtown because those are pretty awful and make my wife's TRD Pro 4Runner feel like a rough ride. I know of one spot in particular where I bent 2 wheels during my daily comment from/to NoPo.

I find the complaints about the M2 interior comical but I get it's all relative. This will be my first BMW after driving mostly Toyotas and Subarus so it will be a massive step up. I just got rid of my cheap Ford Fiesta commuter car last week and the Subaru is now the daily driver. That feels rather luxurious to me!

Yeah, the interior quibbles do qualify as serious First World problems...I'm well aware of the base silliness of it.

The ride was about the same on the winter setup, from what I recall. I was going slower and being more careful, of course, and time has passed.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

ChrisK, really? Did the 718S you drove have the SPASM option? I've read that with it being lowered 20mm AND if you choose the "sport mode" suspension, the Cayman can be way too harsh.

When I test drove the 718S, the car I drove didn't have SPASM nor PASM, and it felt way too soft to me. In fact, one of the main reasons I chose the M2C over the 718S was because the 718S didn't feel sporty enough for me.

Now, my plan is to buy the 718T when it comes out, because it has SPASM, 20" wheels, and is lowered 20mm, so I'm hoping that it will as sporty as the M2C.

Please do let me know!

This was a basic 718s. It was a loaner from my dealer. I had it for 3 days.

[aftercompletion]

I'm not disagreeing with you on the interior but realize that EVERYONE bitches about their interior these days. There are VERY few new cars today with interiors that punch above their weights (Mazdas & certain trim levels of Porsche come to mind).

The M2 doesn't have an amazing interior but very few new cars do these days, particularly in the non-luxury segment. And a lot of cars that DO get praised for "amazing interiors" are just being judged for the seats and how much of a goddamn spaceship it looks like; nobody tells you about how unintuitive and a PITA those spaceships are to actually operate on a day-to-day basis. Ever sit in a base model Huracan? Not only is it not really anything special from a materials standpoint; you see the same silvery coated plastic trim you that see in your M2 on stuff like the shift paddles and center console, but on top of that ALL the controls in the lambo are REALLY fucking weird and stuff like the backup camera is 360p resolution. You get to the point where you just want a normal turn signal stalk.

So, with all that being said, what the M2 does have going for it is a pretty well thought out, logical, and tasteful interior that doesn't have a lot of really fucking weird decisions made done in the name of being "cool and different," topped off with iDrive which is pretty much best in class for infotainment. It's not the sexiest, but it gets the job done.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

I'm not disagreeing with you on the interior but realize that EVERYONE bitches about their interior these days. There are VERY few new cars today with interiors that punch above their weights (Mazdas & certain trim levels of Porsche come to mind).

The M2 doesn't have an amazing interior but very few new cars do these days, particularly in the non-luxury segment. And a lot of cars that DO get praised for "amazing interiors" are just being judged for the seats and how much of a goddamn spaceship it looks like; nobody tells you about how unintuitive and a PITA those spaceships are to actually operate on a day-to-day basis. Ever sit in a base model Huracan? Not only is it not really anything special from a materials standpoint; you see the same silvery coated plastic trim you that see in your M2 on stuff like the shift paddles and center console, but on top of that ALL the controls in the lambo are REALLY fucking weird and stuff like the backup camera is 360p resolution. You get to the point where you just want a normal turn signal stalk.

So, with all that being said, what the M2 does have going for it is a pretty well thought out, logical, and tasteful interior that doesn't have a lot of really fucking weird decisions made done in the name of being "cool and different," topped off with iDrive which is pretty much best in class for infotainment. It's not the sexiest, but it gets the job done.

Agreed. The only newer interiors where I have a hard time finding fault are newer Audi's (s4/RS5 and up) but they do have some cheap bits, which are overshadowed from what they do right. But every brand has stuff that looks cheap. For me seeing some Porsche interiors immediately brings me back to earth about any interior quality concerns about any BMW, including the M2, because even they cheapen out on pieces.

Find me a perfect interior without compromises for less than $90k then we will talk (not you specifically, just generally). All have issues. Everything from a Genesis, K500, Camaro, to a 5 series has some plastic like cheapness issues.

[Karmic Man]

With Porsche you still get plastic interior (even in GT3) unless you op for the leather interior section by section which normally will cost over $10k if you want everything in leather. Carbon trim will cost even more...

[jdubm2c]

I am pretty happy with the interior overall. I think they spent some of the money wisely on other aspects of the car, and had to keep it at a reasonable price point. I'm not sure how the center arm rest slidey thingy will age, and the latching on it seems extra cheap. I might feel differently after 10 months (only in four months), but I am still so stoked about this car. When I don't drive it for a few days, I think it puts me in a bad mood. They catch me at work gazing out the front window at it. I have a Tundra too, so I don't have to try to make this car a utility vehicle though. I could see it being tough with this as the only car.

[Miata13]

Bri1042...
"The work day yesterday was a bit of a horror show of multitasking and craziness. The driving I did afterwards was a reminder that one of the real joys of driving cars like this is what it can do for your mood when you need a boost."

While I don't yet have a 2 series...I whole-heartedly agree..."Life is too short to drive boring cars"!

After two Miatas and now the MINI Roadster S, am looking forward to a future 2 series...just trying to "evaluate" the pros/cons (including pricing) of the M2C vs a "standard" 2 series. With my previous/current 3 vehicles, I can't say "ride quality" is a significant attribute...but handling....absolutely. I do miss RWD and the FWD MINI's torque steer is its only undesired quality for me.

Appreciate hearing everyone's experiences. Thank you.

[Poochie]

I had an Acura RSX Type-S also, great car and it's simplicity was part of the appeal.. But it being a K20 NA Honda motor, it was gutless in the torque department.

The M2C is more than double the power and added handling and stability; its worlds beyond but it has the same fold-down seats and hatch-like layout that also gives it practicality.

So the M2C is the complete package, pour it strait. Congratulations - enjoy

[MisterGoober]

I don't find the suspension harsh at all. I'm surprised that some found the Ohlins to be an improvement. I had Ohlins R/T on my last car, and if lowered, you're still restricting travel on the shock and it was pretty harsh. The M2C handles like a dream. Any softer and you'd be sacrificing handling and wouldn't be able to feel the road. You can't have a sports/sporty car AND a soft suspension.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by MisterGoober

I don't find the suspension harsh at all. I'm surprised that some found the Ohlins to be an improvement. I had Ohlins R/T on my last car, and if lowered, you're still restricting travel on the shock and it was pretty harsh. The M2C handles like a dream. Any softer and you'd be sacrificing handling and wouldn't be able to feel the road. You can't have a sports/sporty car AND a soft suspension.

Not entirely true. It’s not a 1:1 tradeoff. Especially with the level of electronics available to the engineers today. Pretty sure the 911, for example, has both better ride quality than the M2 and handles better.

Agree on lowering. If you’re hitting bump stops you are way too low. I’d barely go below factory ride height on these cars.

[bri1042]

Poochie - The RSX-S was at the end of a series of Honda's for me. Yes, the K20 was what it was, but it was more than the engines in my previous couple of cars had been. And, I was quite experienced with running Honda VTEC 4's, so I knew how to get the most out of it.

Great example of evaluating something based only on what you had before, rather than what you had afterwards. I can't imagine finding it anything but gutless if I drove it now, but at the time is was fun enough.

The RSX-S I had is still also a great example of what makes the M2C so damn good. Harsh suspension (or not since some folk seem to think it isn't), the M2C is never flustered by the bumps it hits and the RSX-S often was. I'd certainly rather have to deal with the possibility of breaking the rears loose from too much power than ever deal with the massive torque steer in the RSX-S again. No mistake, though...I kept that car for 7.5 years (longest car ownership for me)...I did like it at the time.

[fridex]

Originally Posted by bri1042

The title is a bit dishonest, I won't be at 10 months until next Friday, but I have some thoughts and thought I'd throw them onto the internet.

This car was a big purchase for me, money-wise and it was stretching my faith in BMW a bit to buy it without driving it extensively before hand, and with almost no reviews before I got it. I've been disappointed, not initially but after about six months, with each of my previous BMW's. The first was a lemon used E90, so it doesn't really count, but my 2 F30's left me cold (or, in the case of my 328i, cold and uncomfortable due to the base seats). My 340i-x was such a compromise car (luxury vs sportishness) that after a while I didn't enjoy anything it was good at...and it was good at a lot of things. So even on the way to pick up my M2C, I very nearly turned around and went back home.

My M2C blew me away from the get-go. I never imagined that I'd have such a playful, responsive car at my daily disposal. It had enough tech in it to keep me happy, I loved the way it looked, and for a while it could do no wrong. I didn't mind the dissatisfaction with my choice that came from my SO (the car is too small for what he wants us both to have and he hated the harsh suspension from the get-go...but he's not a car person). He does, at least, think it looks good.

Through the break-in and right until I put the winter wheels on it, I was enamored with this car. Every suspension hit was accepted and, honestly, enjoyed. I seriously enjoyed relearning my RWD small car skills. Then the winter wheels went on. I had enough faith again that I was happy when I got a good discount on the winter set recommended for the car by BMW, and I was looking forward to getting a bit of snow to play around in.

I did not end up enjoying the car a ton during the rainy season, though. The winter set's tires are a bit too narrow and make getting going on dry pavement annoying. On wet roads, the car was fine when it got moving but every stop light was an exercise in control to start off smoothly. I never did get to play in any snow, either (yay or darn...still not sure). I endured and figured that it would be fine as soon as I got my summer tires back on.

I was mostly right. Temps came back up and my summer wheels went back on. I had traction again! Weee! But. At that point I had put enough miles on that I was no longer in the "learn the car" phase, and unfortunately that means I started to cast a critical eye at it. I also had time to take it out for longer drives.

This isn't a doom-and-gloom story, this is a brilliant car. I still don't know that, buying new, better can be found for the price without trading negatives for negatives (don't bring up the Camaro...I've test driven them 4 times and the Camaro and I do not like each other).

So here's the Pro's and Con's of this beast as I see it, most of which won't be news to anyone:

Pro's:
1. It is alive and happy. I never feel like I'm driving a numb robot of a car, and the thing is always eager to show me what it can do.

2. This feels like ceiling for usable power on the road. I drove a friend's Mini Cooper S recently and I was reminded why "slow car fast" is fun...you can wind the hell out of it and not break any laws. I'm very happy with where the "broken laws" line is with this car.

3. It has SOME utility. It has a trunk. It has a back seat for smaller friends and my backpack. It's enough space for a reasonable Costco run. Most of the other cars that get tested against the M2 and M2C do not.

3a. The overall size. I don't, honestly, want to drive anything larger. Getting into this car was like coming home again...just from the size

4. At reasonable speeds and reasonable conditions, in MDM you can play and play and the car will hold on or reign you in just enough. It's honestly magic. The level of grip (plenty but not too much) and the level of engineering that must have gone into this balance is just mind-blowing.

5. In manual mode, the DCT is better than any automated transmission I've experienced (I haven't spent enough time with a PDK to be able to comment on it).

6. I can see a Cayman S, which when new and specc'd to match the M2C would be another 30k, and not want to trade. I spent years lusting after that car and the M2C ended that. Mostly. That's an achievement.

7. Everything else that we all love about these cars that I'm not going to type out.

Ok, the Cons:

1. The trunk and space in general. This car is too small to really be a "trunk" car. It should be a hatchback. Utility would be significantly improved. I have had a good number of moments where the size of this car was a problem for something I needed to get done. I don't want anything bigger but I'm running up against the needs of life conflicting with what I really want. It's annoying. I could do 2 cars instead of one, but not with one this expensive. My SO's car is bigger, so we get by, but this is still a negative that has had impact on the car's suitability for my "one car" life. This car has to taught me that it's available interior space is my absolute minimum, which further takes the Caymans out of the realm of serious consideration.

2. The ride quality. I recognize that they have tuned the suspension perfectly for my list of Pro's. I absolutely knew that it was going to be stiff car when I bought it. And, again, most of the time it's just dandy. But this is where I fail to appreciate it: The ride home. Driving TO someplace across terrible roads, I'm good. Driving home FROM where ever I was, when I'm a bit more tired, I'm really not. I think there's a good chance that at some point, the decision to trade in this car will be caused by too many bad rides home. It was what got me to trade in my RSX-S all those years ago for my ill-fated first BMW. I was working downtown and one day I was just done with that car's suspension. I don't work downtown anymore so maybe, just maybe, it won't get to that point. But it probably will...eventually.

2a. I don't believe for a second that the stiff suspension won't cause enumerable rattles to present themselves overtime. There's way, way too much cheap plastic in the car.

3. The DCT. I likely should have bought the manual. This car screams for it, and when I put my summer wheels back on, I was stuck with how much I missed a manual and how much this car feels like it wants it. It isn't just the lack of a manual, it's actually the DCT's automatic modes...compared to the SAT ZF8, the thing is an idiot (the non-SAT ZF-8 I had in my '13 328 was just as stupid). Maybe it's better with the 5 steps on the shift adjustment instead of the 3 they gave us, but there is no happy place with the thing. I've mostly gotten over it by abandoning auto mode most of the time. I'm mostly fine with it. I won't sell the car because of the DCT since I have managed to find the fun in the DCT's Manual mode, and for those same rough drives home when I give in and use auto mode. I nearly snagged one of the last manual M3's that my local dealership had sitting unsold, but I hesitated because of the thing's size, and my salesperson dropped the ball a bit (so someone else grabbed it). There currently isn't a single manual transmission car sitting on a lot in the area, in my price range, that I would actually buy.

4. The above-mentioned less-than-nice road weather road manners. It's fine, and I can get through the unhappy months...but it does sap almost all the joy out of owning this car for me. Having to be so careful to not lose traction leaving every stop light is really obnoxious.

5. The interior quality really is quite awful for the price. So much of this car's interior is barely above Civic-quality (I have a direct comparison...two friends recently bought new Civics). When I'm alone, driving, and not stuck in traffic, I never notice. When I'm in slow or stop and go traffic, I notice the cheap stuff constantly. I have more of a problem with it than I was expecting to.

6. If the cons above cause me to need to get out of this car, there's a good possibility that the playful, happy, powerful nature of this car will be something I won't ever quite get again. 30 years have passed since I was old enough to be drafted and I'm still not thrilled with this whole adulting thing.

I'll leave it there, this was overly long anyway. I love this car, at the moment. It thrills me to look at it and drive it, more often than not. I'd love to keep it for a decade, but I'm not betting my favorite left arm on it at this point. I think it'll depend on what else becomes available, since the remaining main pro of this car is that I still want to own it more than anything else that I can actually afford.

you're a bit nit-picky.
i think an M5 would solve most of your issues. but also its twice the price.
go and work harder, can get a promotion, so you can afford one instead of trolling the forums
i kid.

[mwh2009]

Reading this with great interest. Got rid of my F80 M3 a little over a year ago, due to some impulsive financial conservatism, and have been playing 'what if' games ever since about getting back into the BMW game - specifically the M2C.

I didn't love the F80 enough to buy it again now, and the M2C feels like the right one for me. As for the 'what else is out there?' question, I feel your pain. I ended up with a '18 Golf R with a 6MT. Fast(-ish) with MT and AWD, a hatchback, an everyday liveable suspension, and an interior and tech that were honestly better than my '17 F80. And surprisingly fun to drive on back roads, which the M3 - for some weird reason I couldn't put my fingers on - never really was. Steering, maybe? Don't know.

My mind tells me that the Golf R is the perfect car for me and what I need. Sure it's not as fast, but I don't even drive it flat out 99% of the time, so I'm not sure the extra power is something I'm really missing.

BUT - I keep thinking about the M2C and whether or not it could be 'the one.' Those on here with unlimited budgets [or at least less limited than mine] will say that it's just a matter of having a separate bad-weather/stuff-hauling/DD car, but I want the one car to do it all like you suggest.

Anyway, if you haven't already, try out a Golf R and see if all the plusses outweigh the lower torque/hp and the badge downgrade. Otherwise, I'll be watching to see how this plays out for you, since I feel like I'm standing in the same grass, but on the other side of the fence!

[palum6o]

I've had my car for about 10 months as well and I daily drive it through San Francisco. I have the DCT and I love it. I'm coming from a 2007 997 C4S in manual. We also have
a 335is convertible. Granted everyone has a different situation, for us, I share this car with my wife, and she loves it and finds it easier to drive than the 335is. You do learn to live with the quirks, ie, not sip hot coffee on Lombard street, and if you have a full bladder, take it easy on the rough surfaces. We also have kids, and this car has much more usable space than the 997, whereas I was only able to fit ONE bag in the frunk, I can fit all kinds of luggage in the M2, trunk is very spacious (especially for lacrosse gear, sticks etc..). I also travel, and going to the airport is easy... whereas before, I would hurt my back getting large suit cases out of folded down rear seats. The car is what it is, and it's purely great. I think it's very affordable for what it is.

The things i can't stand is the SMALL GAS TANK
And I wish the center dash had more of it's own look rather than an abbreviated look of the F80. Would also have liked more color options, although BSM is an excellent color. Wheels grew on me, now I love them.

[bri1042]

MWH - I have driven the Golf R a couple of times. I like the car, and it remains on my list of "I need to cut expenses" cars. I think its one of the best all-around choices out there. I wouldn't trade the M2C for it for the hatch and to switch to a manual, though. Our local VW dealership is a nightmare of aggressive and dishonest sales tactics, bait-and-switch at the finance table, and terrible service after purchase. I'd have to DEEPLY want a VW to risk dealing with them.

palum6o - We were pleasantly surprised last October when we managed to fit my SO's silly amount of luggage into the M2 for his annual trip to Thailand to visit family. I do sorta wish the car was a hatchback, but BMW did do a good job giving us as much space as possible.