[bri1042]

The title is a bit dishonest, I won't be at 10 months until next Friday, but I have some thoughts and thought I'd throw them onto the internet.

This car was a big purchase for me, money-wise and it was stretching my faith in BMW a bit to buy it without driving it extensively before hand, and with almost no reviews before I got it. I've been disappointed, not initially but after about six months, with each of my previous BMW's. The first was a lemon used E90, so it doesn't really count, but my 2 F30's left me cold (or, in the case of my 328i, cold and uncomfortable due to the base seats). My 340i-x was such a compromise car (luxury vs sportishness) that after a while I didn't enjoy anything it was good at...and it was good at a lot of things. So even on the way to pick up my M2C, I very nearly turned around and went back home.

My M2C blew me away from the get-go. I never imagined that I'd have such a playful, responsive car at my daily disposal. It had enough tech in it to keep me happy, I loved the way it looked, and for a while it could do no wrong. I didn't mind the dissatisfaction with my choice that came from my SO (the car is too small for what he wants us both to have and he hated the harsh suspension from the get-go...but he's not a car person). He does, at least, think it looks good.

Through the break-in and right until I put the winter wheels on it, I was enamored with this car. Every suspension hit was accepted and, honestly, enjoyed. I seriously enjoyed relearning my RWD small car skills. Then the winter wheels went on. I had enough faith again that I was happy when I got a good discount on the winter set recommended for the car by BMW, and I was looking forward to getting a bit of snow to play around in.

I did not end up enjoying the car a ton during the rainy season, though. The winter set's tires are a bit too narrow and make getting going on dry pavement annoying. On wet roads, the car was fine when it got moving but every stop light was an exercise in control to start off smoothly. I never did get to play in any snow, either (yay or darn...still not sure). I endured and figured that it would be fine as soon as I got my summer tires back on.

I was mostly right. Temps came back up and my summer wheels went back on. I had traction again! Weee! But. At that point I had put enough miles on that I was no longer in the "learn the car" phase, and unfortunately that means I started to cast a critical eye at it. I also had time to take it out for longer drives.

This isn't a doom-and-gloom story, this is a brilliant car. I still don't know that, buying new, better can be found for the price without trading negatives for negatives (don't bring up the Camaro...I've test driven them 4 times and the Camaro and I do not like each other).

So here's the Pro's and Con's of this beast as I see it, most of which won't be news to anyone:

Pro's:
1. It is alive and happy. I never feel like I'm driving a numb robot of a car, and the thing is always eager to show me what it can do.

2. This feels like ceiling for usable power on the road. I drove a friend's Mini Cooper S recently and I was reminded why "slow car fast" is fun...you can wind the hell out of it and not break any laws. I'm very happy with where the "broken laws" line is with this car.

3. It has SOME utility. It has a trunk. It has a back seat for smaller friends and my backpack. It's enough space for a reasonable Costco run. Most of the other cars that get tested against the M2 and M2C do not.

3a. The overall size. I don't, honestly, want to drive anything larger. Getting into this car was like coming home again...just from the size

4. At reasonable speeds and reasonable conditions, in MDM you can play and play and the car will hold on or reign you in just enough. It's honestly magic. The level of grip (plenty but not too much) and the level of engineering that must have gone into this balance is just mind-blowing.

5. In manual mode, the DCT is better than any automated transmission I've experienced (I haven't spent enough time with a PDK to be able to comment on it).

6. I can see a Cayman S, which when new and specc'd to match the M2C would be another 30k, and not want to trade. I spent years lusting after that car and the M2C ended that. Mostly. That's an achievement.

7. Everything else that we all love about these cars that I'm not going to type out.

Ok, the Cons:

1. The trunk and space in general. This car is too small to really be a "trunk" car. It should be a hatchback. Utility would be significantly improved. I have had a good number of moments where the size of this car was a problem for something I needed to get done. I don't want anything bigger but I'm running up against the needs of life conflicting with what I really want. It's annoying. I could do 2 cars instead of one, but not with one this expensive. My SO's car is bigger, so we get by, but this is still a negative that has had impact on the car's suitability for my "one car" life. This car has to taught me that it's available interior space is my absolute minimum, which further takes the Caymans out of the realm of serious consideration.

2. The ride quality. I recognize that they have tuned the suspension perfectly for my list of Pro's. I absolutely knew that it was going to be stiff car when I bought it. And, again, most of the time it's just dandy. But this is where I fail to appreciate it: The ride home. Driving TO someplace across terrible roads, I'm good. Driving home FROM where ever I was, when I'm a bit more tired, I'm really not. I think there's a good chance that at some point, the decision to trade in this car will be caused by too many bad rides home. It was what got me to trade in my RSX-S all those years ago for my ill-fated first BMW. I was working downtown and one day I was just done with that car's suspension. I don't work downtown anymore so maybe, just maybe, it won't get to that point. But it probably will...eventually.

2a. I don't believe for a second that the stiff suspension won't cause enumerable rattles to present themselves overtime. There's way, way too much cheap plastic in the car.

3. The DCT. I likely should have bought the manual. This car screams for it, and when I put my summer wheels back on, I was stuck with how much I missed a manual and how much this car feels like it wants it. It isn't just the lack of a manual, it's actually the DCT's automatic modes...compared to the SAT ZF8, the thing is an idiot (the non-SAT ZF-8 I had in my '13 328 was just as stupid). Maybe it's better with the 5 steps on the shift adjustment instead of the 3 they gave us, but there is no happy place with the thing. I've mostly gotten over it by abandoning auto mode most of the time. I'm mostly fine with it. I won't sell the car because of the DCT since I have managed to find the fun in the DCT's Manual mode, and for those same rough drives home when I give in and use auto mode. I nearly snagged one of the last manual M3's that my local dealership had sitting unsold, but I hesitated because of the thing's size, and my salesperson dropped the ball a bit (so someone else grabbed it). There currently isn't a single manual transmission car sitting on a lot in the area, in my price range, that I would actually buy.

4. The above-mentioned less-than-nice road weather road manners. It's fine, and I can get through the unhappy months...but it does sap almost all the joy out of owning this car for me. Having to be so careful to not lose traction leaving every stop light is really obnoxious.

5. The interior quality really is quite awful for the price. So much of this car's interior is barely above Civic-quality (I have a direct comparison...two friends recently bought new Civics). When I'm alone, driving, and not stuck in traffic, I never notice. When I'm in slow or stop and go traffic, I notice the cheap stuff constantly. I have more of a problem with it than I was expecting to.

6. If the cons above cause me to need to get out of this car, there's a good possibility that the playful, happy, powerful nature of this car will be something I won't ever quite get again. 30 years have passed since I was old enough to be drafted and I'm still not thrilled with this whole adulting thing.

I'll leave it there, this was overly long anyway. I love this car, at the moment. It thrills me to look at it and drive it, more often than not. I'd love to keep it for a decade, but I'm not betting my favorite left arm on it at this point. I think it'll depend on what else becomes available, since the remaining main pro of this car is that I still want to own it more than anything else that I can actually afford.

[brad65ford]

you're not alone, I wanted the manual more than the DTC but I moved forward since the one I got was a special order someone backed out on. Only issue I have is myself wanting a manual even though the DTC shifts amazingly.

[akkando]

I mean what else could you buy that you would rather have? It can't be large and small at the same time.

An RS3? It's not RWD and you won't be able to get a manual.

Everything else is either too big, way less practical, or it's a Camaro.

Too bad they don't offer the magneride suspension. Perhaps you could fix your suspension issues with some Ohlins, but maybe you don't want to throw more money at it since you won't know if it's better until the money is spent.

Maybe you can find a better wheel and tire combo to fix your winter issues.



Well if you decide you want to get rid of it let me know!

[orangeglim]

I'm curious to know more about what you don't like about the DCT. Mine is a DCT also and I haven't found it to be an issue at all. I came from an M235i with a ZF8 and I haven't noticed anything glaringly negative about the DCT. My thoughts on the different modes:

1 bar - my god, awful mode. Clearly made for fuel economy requirements. Races through the gears, stays under 2000rpm all the time. Makes the car feel boggy and slow. Shifts are slow and lazy. I never use this mode.

2 bars - my around town mode. Much better than 1 bar, shifts are quick, it revs higher, but not too high. No complaints. Just about perfect for me.

3 bars - Revs out to 6-7000rpms with even the slightest application of throttle. I tend to upshift myself because it ends up holding the revs a lot longer than I'd like. This is really the "track mode" setting as far as I'm concerned.

[KevinM]

Balanced review - thanks! As someone who will be trading a pristine F80 M3 MT in tomorrow for my M2C MT that finally arrived, I found it particularly interesting. I appreciate most of the cons of the car and am prepared for them. I'm really wanting a smaller DD at this point with all the kids gone and cannot wait (I have test-driven the M2C however and loved it).

In terms of the ride, don't expect anything better from the F80 M3, at least with the ZCP and 20 inch wheels (despite the "adaptive" suspension, which to me really doesn't seem that adaptive).

I'm fortunate that I have an SUV and my long-term BMWs to mitigate some of the issues you note with the M2C.

BTW, if you want a pristine one-owner European delivery, 2016 ZCP Sterling Gray/Golden brown MT M3 with 21K miles, a clear bra and no mechanical issues, it will be at Chapman BMW in Chandler for at least a few days... It deserves a good home. Reallly the biggest reason for the change is that I don't need two cars that are the same size as my E39 M5 (and that one is staying).

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by orangeglim

I'm curious to know more about what you don't like about the DCT. Mine is a DCT also and I haven't found it to be an issue at all. I came from an M235i with a ZF8 and I haven't noticed anything glaringly negative about the DCT. My thoughts on the different modes:

1 bar - my god, awful mode. Clearly made for fuel economy requirements. Races through the gears, stays under 2000rpm all the time. Makes the car feel boggy and slow. Shifts are slow and lazy. I never use this mode.

2 bars - my around town mode. Much better than 1 bar, shifts are quick, it revs higher, but not too high. No complaints. Just about perfect for me.

3 bars - Revs out to 6-7000rpms with even the slightest application of throttle. I tend to upshift myself because it ends up holding the revs a lot longer than I'd like. This is really the "track mode" setting as far as I'm concerned.

That's how I would describe the 3 modes, for the most part. My issue with it is the on none of the modes does downshift to the correct gear when I want it to, it's always at least one gear too high. My other issue with the thing would be a knock against every auto I've ever driven, to some extent or another. It heads for high gears way, way too fast. The B58 was better suited for the higher gears with SAT ZF8 since it makes a higher percentage of it's available torque at lower RPM's than the S55 does (and this is a big reason why the Supra does a bit better getting to 60 than our cars do but then falls behind us). My 340 was much more comfortable at 1700 RPM's than the M2C is. I don't care that the M2C doesn't want to be at 1700 RPM's and in Manural Mode I just make sure it isn't. Mode 2 almost upshifts and downshifts correctly, but in the end, it's generally not in the gear I want it to be in unless I'm stuck in crappy traffic. So I find it frustrating.

Mode 3 is just silly.

Mode 1: Parking Lot Mode
Mode 2: Crappy Traffic and Watch Out for Kids in the Street Mode
Mode 3: Insanity Mode

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by akkando

I mean what else could you buy that you would rather have? It can't be large and small at the same time.

An RS3? It's not RWD and you won't be able to get a manual.

Everything else is either too big, way less practical, or it's a Camaro.

Too bad they don't offer the magneride suspension. Perhaps you could fix your suspension issues with some Ohlins, but maybe you don't want to throw more money at it since you won't know if it's better until the money is spent.

Maybe you can find a better wheel and tire combo to fix your winter issues.



Well if you decide you want to get rid of it let me know!

There's the rub :-) I have test driven pretty much everything. The RS3 is neat, but I didn't connect with it (somewhat robot-like). I would still consider it except for the manual seats. I'm just not doing it...I'm not paying that much for a car and cranking my seats. TT-RS? It has power seats but less practicality and still a bit robot-ish. Mustang? Large, dreadful dashboard and even more bad plastic. Camaro? I dislike the packaging intensely. Cayman? Too expensive unless bought used and less practicality...and the S I drove I loved but not more than my car.

So, yep, nothing's perfect. I will enjoy my drive to work in a bit, solidly sure that there isn't something else for me to buy right now and I have the best compromise that I can get at the moment. The compromise I have is, at least, a deeply fun car.

For winter, I'm thinking of leaving the 235's that came stock with the winter set on the front but pulling the 235's from the rear and replacing them with 255's. Seems to make sense, drop 10mm from each corner rather than 10 from the fronts and 30 from the rears. It would give me spare tires for the front, at least.

Suspension: I hadn't mentioned the problem with changing anything on the suspension...it can not lower the car or I won't be able to get up my driveway (stupid driveway), so I haven't looked into it. Also another Cayman negative...I don't think I can park it at home.

[Dav3]

2. The ride quality.

Get Adaptive KW DDC Suspension. Expensive, yes but I think it could be worth it. It's on my list of mods I want to do before I get rid of the car.

3. The DCT.

You could try and flash the GTS transmission software. You could also somewhat safely tune the car to 450-460hp and get some more fun out of it. S55 was never engineered for 410hp, the power is there and easy to exploit.

In regards to MT vs DCT, I owned OG M2 Manual and now have the M2C DCT. I'd personally chose DCT everyday of the week. Manual on new BMW's is really underwhelming. Enjoyable the first few thousand miles but in the long-run you will most likely grow very disattisfied with it. It's nothing like older BMW MT.

5. The interior quality really is quite awful for the price.

True to some extent but you could have OG M2 interior with standard f22 seats and much more plastic, so not the end of the day. Alcantara or gloss carbon fiber trim combined with a few IND interior cosmetics could transform the interior quite a bit.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by Dav3

Get Adaptive KW DDC Suspension. Expensive, yes but I think it could be worth it. It's on my list of mods I want to do before I get rid of the car.

this looks awesome thanks for posting!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Dav3

Get Adaptive KW DDC Suspension. Expensive, yes but I think it could be worth it. It's on my list of mods I want to do before I get rid of the car.



You could try and flash the GTS transmission software. You could also somewhat safely tune the car to 450-460hp and get some more fun out of it. S55 was never engineered for 410hp, the power is there and easy to exploit.

In regards to MT vs DCT, I owned OG M2 Manual and now have the M2C DCT. I'd personally chose DCT everyday of the week. Manual on new BMW's is really underwhelming. Enjoyable the first few thousand miles but in the long-run you will most likely grow very disattisfied with it. It's nothing like older BMW MT.



True to some extent but you could have OG M2 interior with standard f22 seats and much more plastic, so not the end of the day. Alcantara or gloss carbon fiber trim combined with a few IND interior cosmetics could transform the interior quite a bit.

I'm not terribly interested in tuning for more power on this car, but the KW suspension is intriguing. I wonder how much it actually runs...

[Tag]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I'm not terribly interested in tuning for more power on this car, but the KW suspension is intriguing. I wonder how much it actually runs...

It's pricey AF, around $5k for the full kit without installation.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Tag

It's pricey AF, around $5k for the full kit without installation.

That's about what I was thinking. I doubt that I'd do it, but I'd be tempted.

[heavyD^2]

Good read. While I don't think interior is a strength of this car I disagree with it being awful for the price as I cross shopped the M2 with its competitors prior to purchase. The Audi RS3 interior is overall nicer with better seat materials, much better instrument cluster, but the basic A3 dash with screen sticking out in the middle of this long, straight slab of grey plastic is arguably lower rent than the dash in a Golf R. The AMG CLA 45 interior on first glance looks kind of nice but on closer inspection it's by far the cheapest of these cars as you can press on the center console and it moves and creaks and the CF trim available looks like the stuff you get from AliExpress. I feel while the 2 series interior is basic it's highly functional with everything (exception heated steering wheel button) easily accessible and while the plastics in some area don't scream luxury I feel everything fits tight and there's little to any gaps. There's always going to be a separation in quality from entry level working your way up with any manufacturer whether it be Kia, Toyota, BMW, Audi, etc. and this car is no different.

I'm kind of surprised you think the Civic interior is compatible as IMO it's low end garbage as this video of a Civic Type R is one of many complains about interior cheapness with that car. You can clearly see gaps in the panels and cheap, flimsy the plastic. I just don't see the comparison at all as that interior is arguably worse than a comparable Hyundai interior let alone a 2 series BMW.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by bri1042

That's about what I was thinking. I doubt that I'd do it, but I'd be tempted.

Another option worth considering is the Dinan adjustable coilover kit. It's not adaptive, but has some good reviews on being better for daily driving as well as improved handling. It's not perfect and can be a bit harsher than stock in some instances, but from what I've read and seen improves the ride overall. Search the M2 forum for members that have it for feedback. TheSmokingTire has an OG M2 review with this setup.

The kit is similar to the KW HAS where it reuses your stock struts/shocks. The one benefit with using Dinan is they stand behind their products. If for instance you blow out a strut/shock while using this kit they will cover it under the new car warranty. Reach out to them directly to inquire about warranty coverage.

[Dav3]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I'm not terribly interested in tuning for more power on this car, but the KW suspension is intriguing. I wonder how much it actually runs...

It's around 3000£ so around 4000$ without labour

It's a lot of money but based on consumer spending habits within the M2C crowd, loads and loads of people spend more on an exhaust that makes the car sound a bit better or often worse. I've done exhaust and I don't regret it but in hindsight there probably was more value in the KW DDC.

I'm most likely going to pull the trigger on these close to when the M2 CS gets released. Throw a M2 CS flash tune, and performance wise, you're 90% there (in my opinion).

[bri1042]

heavyD^2, maybe I didn't state that well. The Civic interior is deeply low-rent compared to the M2's or any BMW. I think it's rather awful even for its price point.

I don't think the interior of the 2-series in general is bad for the starting price point, for the most part, and buying the top-end version of course means that some of the lower cost materials hold over. The bits of our interior that were upgraded (the fine fluffy stuff on the door panels, etc...) make the parts that are still meant for a $38k car seem a bit worse. I don't doubt that the RS3 has some of the same problems. I've been in a CLA45 and a GLA45 and thought they were a travesty.

The interior is just lower rent than I want it to be. This is another "con" that I don't think can be solved, at the moment, in this price range.

[Moflow]

Okay, just how bad is the ride? I hear a lot of people complain, but i think a lot of people expect luxury car, which this obviously isn't.

You mentioned an RSX-S, i've been in one of those and it was fine, sporty but fine. Is the M2C worse than that?

I care a lot less about ride quality and a lot more about travel length, are people finding they're bottoming out the suspension or is it more just a thing where its uncomfortable?

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Okay, just how bad is the ride? I hear a lot of people complain, but i think a lot of people expect luxury car, which this obviously isn't.

You mentioned an RSX-S, i've been in one of those and it was fine, sporty but fine. Is the M2C worse than that?

I care a lot less about ride quality and a lot more about travel length, are people finding they're bottoming out the suspension or is it more just a thing where its uncomfortable?

I really think it comes down to expectations and where you're driving the car. I'd read a bunch of early comments stating the ride was harsh so I was prepared, but in all honesty, I'm amazed at how well this thing rides given the capabilities. I've been driving sport -ish cars since the early 90s, and I have to say, the M2c is a boulevard-ride cruiser compared to that trash. Flexi-flyer body flex so bad that suspension "tuners" may as well have used aluminum blocks rather than springs (it sure felt like it) since there was already too much compliance in the body. I expected worse than that based on early M2 comments, and it's not even a comparison

The other part that's a bit tougher is where you have to drive it. My oldest lives in Wrigleyville in Chicago, and there's no way in hell I'm driving to the city in the M2. It'll beat the hell out of any car, and I just can't do it. If I lived down there, the M2 ride would be a problem only because I'd cringe at the thought of incessant shithole roads tearing up my new car.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Okay, just how bad is the ride? I hear a lot of people complain, but i think a lot of people expect luxury car, which this obviously isn't.

You mentioned an RSX-S, i've been in one of those and it was fine, sporty but fine. Is the M2C worse than that?

I care a lot less about ride quality and a lot more about travel length, are people finding they're bottoming out the suspension or is it more just a thing where its uncomfortable?

The M2C rides smooth as butter compared to a 718S.

[COChris]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

The M2C rides smooth as butter compared to a 718S.

Agree. The ride is downright supple compared to a lot of sports cars I've driven. For me it's a good compromise, but we also have fairly decent roads where I live. Even my e90 M3 with adaptive suspension could be harsh over certain bumps in comfort mode.

Something like Ohlins R&T could be useful because of their adjustability and dual flow valving.

Regarding the loss of traction with winter tires, if I have read correctly, the OP could use an aftermarket tuning device (BM3?) to limit torque in lower gears to prevent excessive wheel spin.

All said, I think this is one of the best daily drivers out of the box that BMW has made in recent times.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Okay, just how bad is the ride? I hear a lot of people complain, but i think a lot of people expect luxury car, which this obviously isn't.

You mentioned an RSX-S, i've been in one of those and it was fine, sporty but fine. Is the M2C worse than that?

I care a lot less about ride quality and a lot more about travel length, are people finding they're bottoming out the suspension or is it more just a thing where its uncomfortable?

I have not had an issue with it with the exception of the warzone roads in SF. So it your roads are just terrible than it might be an issue. If your roads are not great - to good, then it will probably be fine.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by BlkSVT

I really think it comes down to expectations and where you're driving the car. I'd read a bunch of early comments stating the ride was harsh so I was prepared, but in all honesty, I'm amazed at how well this thing rides given the capabilities. I've been driving sport -ish cars since the early 90s, and I have to say, the M2c is a boulevard-ride cruiser compared to that trash. Flexi-flyer body flex so bad that suspension "tuners" may as well have used aluminum blocks rather than springs (it sure felt like it) since there was already too much compliance in the body. I expected worse than that based on early M2 comments, and it's not even a comparison

The other part that's a bit tougher is where you have to drive it. My oldest lives in Wrigleyville in Chicago, and there's no way in hell I'm driving to the city in the M2. It'll beat the hell out of any car, and I just can't do it. If I lived down there, the M2 ride would be a problem only because I'd cringe at the thought of incessant shithole roads tearing up my new car.

I take my Honda when traveling into the city to visit my dad and sister. Some roads are still f'd up from when I was a kid growing up in Rodgers park. Lmao