[///M TOWN]

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

[VIDEO]

Is this an issue? How many cases have there been compared to other S55 engines?

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

it's also a good idea to double declutch when downshifting. With the gear selector in neutral on the way for example from 4th to 3rd, while passing neutral lift up on the clutch and then immediately declutch and complete the shift.

Two things happen - you slow down the spinning components of the clutch and u give yourself an extra moments to sense the gear selector is in the right plane.

On older crash box style transmissions you'd have to do the double declutch.

Since it's done under braking your minimizing a time loss when going for a quick lap for example.

Ugh. This is what i've always done since learning to drive a manual. Spent 13 years doing this in my Z and always do it in my race car (24 hours of lemons, so endurance > speed)

But 3 months into owning the M2C and the car's auto rev-matching has basically destroyed all my good habits. It feels weird to double clutch without gassing it in neutral to rev match, but if I do give it some gas, the car pretty much just straight up calls me an idiot and says "ohhh, you were looking for THIS amount of throttle, you f**king rube" before the gear selector slides into the lower gear.

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue

OP here! I've been busy but I'ol try to answer every question I saw.
TLDR; car is back on the road as of August '19 and more mods are on now.

Sorry to see your pain man.

Your comment in the video summed it up "F@ck"

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by Moflow

This times a thousand

I dunno, maybe i just have too much mechanical sympathy but i've always felt perfectly timed (read: not as fast as possible) shifts felt way more satisfying than balls to the wall "how fast can i go" shifts.

One of my 24 hours of Lemons teammates always shifts our race car like a crazy person. He looks like a human-DSG out there. That's fine, it's a race car so there's no real excuse not to beat on it, but at the same time, we run the exact same times on the track and i'm double clutching my downshifts AND giving a second for the revs to drop between gears on the upshift. It just doesn't save THAT much time at the end of the day.

I see the point you're trying to make but I think you're forgetting that people sometimes drag race these cars (legally and illegally) and that's where shift time wins or loses you a race, so naturally people are slamming gears in those instances.

[SlickShift]

That's really hard to watch. I money-shifted my then-new E46 back in the day and it was a very expensive lesson learned. Let's just say I never "slammed" gears after that.

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by SlickShift

That's really hard to watch. I money-shifted my then-new E46 back in the day and it was a very expensive lesson learned. Let's just say I never "slammed" gears after that.

I had never even heard that expression before today. I had motorbikes that you could do clutchless changes on if you rev matched, but I have never miss-shifted down a gear....

I would be pig sick if I did though.

[Ragged Edge]

I'm sorry to hear this happened to you... and thank you for sharing with us. It's good to learn the details of this costly mistake. Thanks brother.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by 535i MSport

I had never even heard that expression before today. I had motorbikes that you could do clutchless changes on if you rev matched, but I have never miss-shifted down a gear....

I would be pig sick if I did though.

Bike boxes with their rotary sequential selector drums are easy to clutchless shift, especially up, in fact easier and faster than with clutch!

M2C is pretty easy too, up or down without clutch.

Ease off gas, pop into neutral, quick blip and let syncros work then it will drop into gear. quite satisfying.

[L4ces]

Thanks for sharing that bad experience; not funny but informative. I've never witnessed one but it is one of those things that always sit in the back of the mind of those of us who row their own gears.

[ND40oz]

According to the Instagram post of the video, the revmatch feature is what caused the RPMs to go so high. Did he even let the clutch out?

This was a simple misshift. Revmatch launched my RPM to the moon. 9450RPM specifically. 🔩Crankhub spun, causing catastrophic failure, and many further issues.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Bike boxes with their rotary sequential selector drums are easy to clutchless shift, especially up, in fact easier and faster than with clutch!

M2C is pretty easy too, up or down without clutch.

Ease off gas, pop into neutral, quick blip and let syncros work then it will drop into gear. quite satisfying.

Why would you shift without using the clutch? What is the point?

[msdss]

Originally Posted by chris719

Got a link to an informed source? All I can find is that they are hard to put into first because of the gearbox being that way, not some intentional over-rev lockout. Bet $20 there is no lockout and it's just the speed / ratio difference and crappy synchro.

https://www.clubwrx.net/threads/1st-gear-lockout.82102/

100% it is the gearbox and not a lockout.

[sq86]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

it's also a good idea to double declutch when downshifting. With the gear selector in neutral on the way for example from 4th to 3rd, while passing neutral lift up on the clutch and then immediately declutch and complete the shift.

Two things happen - you slow down the spinning components of the clutch and u give yourself an extra moments to sense the gear selector is in the right plane.

On older crash box style transmissions you'd have to do the double declutch.

Since it's done under braking your minimizing a time loss when going for a quick lap for example.

I'm fairly certain he wasn't downshifting here and selected the wrong gear. He missed the 2>3 or 4>5 shift and went into 1 or 3. I agree with what you're saying though.

[sq86]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

According to the Instagram post of the video, the revmatch feature is what caused the RPMs to go so high. Did he even let the clutch out?

Isn't rev match disabled in DSC OFF? That's why Artemis clarified in later posts why it's important to leave it on so it gives you an audible warning. Won't help you either way once you release the clutch if you were intending to go into an upshift off redline and go down a gear instead.

[TRACK M4STER]

Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue

Here's my money shift for your viewing pleasure
4th to 3rd.
Spun just under 9500rpm.
Piston heads trashed, valves bent, but rods were straight. Crankshaft was irreparable as well. Connection from shaft to crankhub bolt was also destroyed. I had Vargas Turbos crankhub bolt lock on at the time.
Was not stock. Stage 2, Catless Downpipes, EVenturi intake, BMS JB4 as boost controller, Bootmod3 stage 2 aggressive ots.
Car is back on the road as of August '19 and more mods are on now.
Feel free to share for science

User error. I've driven manuals exclusively my whole life. This clearly is a mis-shift. Car is modified which likely exacerbated failure. My sympathy wanes.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by Moflow

This times a thousand

I dunno, maybe i just have too much mechanical sympathy but i've always felt perfectly timed (read: not as fast as possible) shifts felt way more satisfying than balls to the wall "how fast can i go" shifts.

One of my 24 hours of Lemons teammates always shifts our race car like a crazy person. He looks like a human-DSG out there. That's fine, it's a race car so there's no real excuse not to beat on it, but at the same time, we run the exact same times on the track and i'm double clutching my downshifts AND giving a second for the revs to drop between gears on the upshift. It just doesn't save THAT much time at the end of the day.

People who bang the shifter and clutch into gears have always been the least smoothest MT drivers I've been passenger with in my experience. I'm sure this will sound like ego but there are very few MT drivers I know who I would consider "good at it" (driving an MT smoothly without any jerkiness).

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by chris719

Exactly. There are no lockouts in forward gears except the Corvette that has an actual switch / solenoid to physically prevent it. The Corvette one only stops you at low RPM too, which is funny.

Even that Drivetribe article is wrong. It's just the natural resistance. If the manufacturers really wanted to prevent money shifts, it would be EASILY doable now that these cars all have Hall Effect sensors to determine shifter position for rev matching. I suspect there is some failure mode / liability issue that stops them from doing it.

It's pretty hard to money shift a BMW with rod shift linkage like you said, but I could see it happening with a cable shifted car. I've noticed they tend to be smoother and give less resistance. My Mazda 3 will let you into anything but first pretty easily at any time. Z4M... not so much.

Not just Corvette but Porsche 911 7 speed MT's have a lockout preventing you from going to 7th and ironically UNDER revving unless you've already shifted into 5th or 6th.

Its weird but it is physically impossible to get past the solenoid directly. Heard older Corvette's also have mechanisms that prevent skipping a gear on down shifting, ie can't go from 4th directly to 2nd; gotta shift first to 3rd then down into 2nd.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Not just Corvette but Porsche 911 7 speed MT's have a lockout preventing you from going to 7th and ironically UNDER revving unless you've already shifted into 5th or 6th.

Its weird but it is physically impossible to get past the solenoid directly. Heard older Corvette's also have mechanisms that prevent skipping a gear on down shifting, ie can't go from 4th directly to 2nd; gotta shift first to 3rd then down into 2nd.

That makes sense, you would not want to hit 7th accidentally. It's a complaint that I have seen on the Corvette forums on C7 7MT. People want 5th but end up in 7th.

Not sure about the downshift stuff with older cars. I am pretty sure it doesn't exist in C6 and C7 though.

I sometimes wonder why no one has offered a sequential style shifter. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't find paddles very intuitive. I also don't like the weird, tiny, stubby +/- shift mechanisms on automatic cars.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by sq86

Isn't rev match disabled in DSC OFF? That's why Artemis clarified in later posts why it's important to leave it on so it gives you an audible warning. Won't help you either way once you release the clutch if you were intending to go into an upshift off redline and go down a gear instead.

He never said he had DSC off from what I can tell. I don't see it showing off on the dash either, but the camera work does make it difficult to see.

[nbennettksu]

Google proper hand position on gear selector. This could have also bee avoided doing that. Sorry OP, hard pill to swallow.

[HellRaizzer]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

DCT next time for you

DCT is for those who can't drive!