10-20-2019, 01:17 PM | #89 |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
Hey guys, here's an update from another open track day last month:
Max temps Ambient - 101F IAT - 152F Oil - 275F Coolant - 256F The only difference with the car was I was mostly running BM3 OTS Stg 2 E30 5.8, vs Stg 2H 5.7. See log links below. Quick thoughts: IATs I'm not worried about watching IATs anymore. The ethanol does a really good job of keeping power levels up when IATs increase. And, this track was more representative of the longer and more open tracks I visit, vs the shorter/tighter tracks that were really driving up IATs in my other posts. The outcome was a max ambient/IAT delta of 51F, vs 60F on the tighter tracks. Seems reasonable considering a really hot day and pushing the car hard for 30+ min at a time. Oil/Coolant Temps These continue to be my bane. The 5.8 map did a better job at not reaching these temps as quickly as the Stg 2H 5.7 map, but I'd still hit temps where the car would begin to pull power (Coolant >241F, Oil >270F). MAF values with the Stg 2 5.8 map were down a tiny bit vs Stg 2H 5.7. And, 5.8's approach to power trades some boost for timing, so I was seeing peaks of 16.5-psi on Stg 2 5.8 vs 17.9-psi on Stg 2H 5.7. These factors are what helped the engine not get to power pulling temps as quickly, but I'd still reach coolant temps of >240F after 6-laps and >250F a couple laps later. Also, 5.8 doesn't have as large of a power drop in the upper RPMs as 5.7, so lap times ended up being similar. Next Steps I'm not really sure what best to do to address the engine cooling issue on hot days, but here are a few thoughts: -I don't see meth being effective enough to lower engine temps over long runs. Sure, IATs will be lower, but I'd be using a huge amount of meth to do that, and it would likely only buy me a couple more laps before coolant temps would reach >240F anyways. -Running pure water vs a water/glycol mix will bring coolant temps down, but water's vapor pressure is lower so I need to figure out our cooling system's operating pressure to make sure it operates high enough so vapor bubbles don't form in low pressure areas around the engine block and create hot spots. Anyone know our cooling system's operating pressure? -For engine tuning, you can see I was increasing the E mix up to E35, just to see what the car would do. It didn't help with cooling or power (no tune to take advantage of it) and you can see the HPFP straining more as the Emix goes up. So, I could likely upgrade the HPFP and focus on an E35-45 tune that keeps boost down, but increases timing. It wouldn't be a big power increase since I'd keep boost levels down, and I'm guessing it still wouldn't provide many more laps of keeping engine temps down. -For engine hardware, I'm running the FTP turbo inlet pipe and can change to the new Pure inlet turbo pipe to hopefully gain a little bit more flow. This would be another incremental gain, vs a fix. Also, I could change from my Dinan turbo to a PS2 and follow the engine tuning thoughts above to go higher on Emix & timing while keeping boost levels lower. This would produce a little more power and likely lower temps, but similar to my thoughts on meth, would the lower IATs really be enough to keep engine temps in check? And, I hate the idea of adding more turbo lag. -For airflow, changing to an M2C nose and adding fender/hood venting may end up being the most effective approach to keeping engine temps in check. Altho, I haven't seen any data on this, and I'm one of those guys that really likes the M2's looks and do not want to change to an M2C nose or add vents that will impact the car's aesthetics. So, what do you guys think? I can always take the shotgun approach, but I'm curious which of the fixes above will have the most impact. Thanks! Logs Stg 2 E30 5.8 earlier in the day: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7a500eae729b06e29120da Stg 2 E30 5.8 in the afternoon: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7a93fcc090c677bd36877e Stg 2H E30 5.7 in the afternoon: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7a6ef3c090c677bd3686df Last edited by ZM2; 10-20-2019 at 03:17 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-20-2019, 08:57 PM | #90 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
4751
Rep 2,557
Posts |
Quote:
The 7670 turbo is in but we are still running stock level power so I’m not 100% how it will fare when we get to full power. At full boost it would make awesome power - but would pretty quickly kick into limp mode. Had to cap the boost pretty low to keep it from glitching out. As we work through the tune I’ll let you know how the cooling holds up. Definitely better at stockish power levels - hopefully that holds up as the power increases too. Vents might help a bit, but Imo to see a big benefit from them you really need to direct the hot air out. Without the room to funnel it out I don’t think they will be very effective. If you are not a fan of their aesthetics then I would maybe pass on them. If you can handle their look then should help a bit, just maybe not as much as you are hoping for.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-20-2019, 09:48 PM | #92 |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Maybe have a water sprayer system, take a look at the torqbyte kit they have a controller called the CM5 that can power two solenoids, one for you charge pipe to keep iats down and you can have a second (if you're using distilled water) to spray you intercooler, radiator, and oil cooler with the help of a distribution block.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-20-2019, 10:32 PM | #94 | |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-21-2019, 12:57 PM | #96 |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Yeah that would be sweet!
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
Appreciate
0
|
10-21-2019, 03:36 PM | #97 |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
Alright, short of a bad ass custom air to liquid IC setup, what do guys think is the best way to address high oil/coolant temps? I already have all the upgraded coolers.
As mentioned in my post, meth, pure water in the cooling loop, engine tuning, turbo inlet, and turbo upgrade all come to mind, but I’m not sure which will have enough/the most impact. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-21-2019, 05:18 PM | #98 | |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-21-2019, 07:18 PM | #99 | |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
Quote:
CSF has a race radiator that’s larger than my CSF radiator, but requires AC delete. That’s a no go for me. Not sure what else can be done on the coolant loop besides the coolant/oil exchanger delete, but then your oil doesn’t heat up very quickly. Pure water is supposed to lower temps 15-20F, but I need to figure out our coolant operating pressure to understand the vapor pressure risk. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-21-2019, 07:23 PM | #100 | |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Quote:
I believe TYSP33D was working on a kit for sale so you may want to message him about that.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-21-2019, 07:42 PM | #101 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
4751
Rep 2,557
Posts |
Quote:
I'm personally going to try to stay away from meth or pure water injection for as long as possible. Was leaning towards that direction at first but then decided to go with IC conversion & bigger turbo. Also upgraded the HPFP so hoping to be able to run up to full E85. Hoping the combo of the bigger turbo, ethanol, and new IC help us reach our power goal much more efficiently. Not going to run it near max power on the track - so hoping that making "easy" power on the track will promote cooler operating temps. My goal for power is 450 or a little more at the wheels.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-22-2019, 10:27 AM | #103 |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
That was the first place I checked, but didn't see it listed.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-22-2019, 02:01 PM | #104 |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Becareful with increasing the pressure of the cooling system you could possibly blow a head gasket.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-22-2019, 02:11 PM | #105 |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-22-2019, 02:18 PM | #106 | |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
Quote:
Although, I’m guessing the tuning would show no point in going E50+ with the smaller turbos. No idea for sure, tho. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-22-2019, 02:21 PM | #107 | |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
Quote:
I’ll probably try the Pure inlet pipe and 100% water in the cooling system on hot days to see what that does, then go from there. |
|
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3359.50 |
10-22-2019, 02:39 PM | #108 | |
Major General
7352
Rep 7,511
Posts |
Quote:
Good luck and keep us updated!
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242 |
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-22-2019, 02:39 PM | #109 |
Lieutenant Colonel
3360
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Good plan. Sorry for missing your post earlier. No idea what nominal pressure our cooling systems are at.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
Appreciate
1
ZM22839.50 |
10-22-2019, 03:24 PM | #110 |
Brigadier General
2840
Rep 3,715
Posts |
While we’re on the subject, this is a good read for those interested: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f...ech%20Info.pdf
My take away is running pure water has more impact than adding wetter to a glycol mix. Water + wetter is obviously the best and what I’ll try. |
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3359.50 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|