[Spydert]

https://www.evo.co.uk/sports-cars/20...nd-porsche-911

This is precisely the sort of auto journalism that I spend hours each day browsing youtube and safari to find.

Given that auto journalists have better access to cars than us the driving public, they should use that access to query issues such as this that are beyond the reach of the average driver. I mean, I can go test drive most Porsches and BMWs at the dealership most times, but to get a comparison such as this - same day, same circuit/roads, that's nigh on impossible for the average bloke (or Miss).

This particular comparison is quite pertinent to me as these are the very two cars I am considering getting to keep as we drive off into the E future, and the issue of manual vs auto has really bugged me.

On the 992, I wonder if Henry would have felt the same way if it was the GTS instead of the S. Or the new Carrera T. When I spoke with a guy at the Porsche dealership a while back, he said exactly the same thing - generally, the 992 feels better in a pdk but the GTS he drove (just came out when we spoke) made a better case for getting the manual. It's also interesting that when Porsche brought the new Carrera T to California for reviews, five out of the six cars had a manual transmission. In fact I don't recollect seeing any review of the car with the pdk. Makes me wonder if cars like the GTS and T were optimized in development for the manual, while the base Carreras, S and turbos are optimized for the pdk. Personally, I've driven the Carrera S in both pdk and manual. I think on the whole, I might agree with Henry here on the pdk, but I found the manual in the 911 to be so much better than the Bmw manuals I had driven, that that alone made it feel really good.

Which brings me to the M2. I've had my OG LCI for going on five years now and I have determined that the one thing that could make me ever sell the car is the 1-2 up shift. It's not the best. It is almost never smooth. I still haven't figured out the best revs at which to shift, nor the ideal clutch take up point. It's quite annoying for what is an otherwise wonderful driving experience. When I'm at red lights, I am slightly worried about the car behind driving into me - basically every single time. And when I rev it out to get a head start, the revs fall so quickly that the car loses speed significantly before I can get it into 2nd and going again. When I drove the manual 992, this issue was basically non existent and that alone made me fall in love with the car immediately. Within minutes, I was driving it as comfortably as I drive my M2 and this was a performance center car. I've also never had this issue the numerous times I've driven ND Miatas. No fear of the red light with that car either. The Miata revs more easily and sustains momentum coming out of first gear way better than the M2. The shift to 2 is smoother and you're never wondering where the clutch take up point is. It's annoying cos in the M2, I quite enjoy 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and all the others. I also find downshifting generally fine across the range. But that 1 - 2 shift really gets me. All this said though, I'm not sure I would have gone for the M2 in Dct. But it has got me occasionally thinking about an M4 with auto and idrive 7. Before both give way to no shifter and drive 8.

I realize that Henry drove a CS and not an OG but my understanding is that its the same manual transmission in both - right?

Hats off to Catchpole for a great article. He does a great job and I hope we see even more more of these thoughtful and insightful reviews.

[BMWCompact]

I have a '20 M2 Comp manual I ordered new, and a '19 991.2 Carrera T manual I purchased as a CPO with ~1,700 miles.

I absolutely love the M2 Comp - it's my daily BMW - it's a lot of fun to drive, the right size for me etc. That said, the Carrera T, to me, offers a different, more satisfying driving experience. Even though the Carrera T is down on power compared to the M2 Comp (370 hp) it's also lighter, so it *feels* quicker and more powerful. Also, I would agree that the manual trans in the Carrera T offers better and smoother engagement.

All that said, I'm glad I have both in my garage. I personally wouldn't want to daily the Carrera T - I just enjoy the utility, comfort and driving experience offered by the M2 Comp as a daily driving experience.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by BMWCompact

I have a '20 M2 Comp manual I ordered new, and a '19 991.2 Carrera T manual I purchased as a CPO with ~1,700 miles.

I absolutely love the M2 Comp - it's my daily BMW - it's a lot of fun to drive, the right size for me etc. That said, the Carrera T, to me, offers a different, more satisfying driving experience. Even though the Carrera T is down on power compared to the M2 Comp (370 hp) it's also lighter, so it *feels* quicker and more powerful. Also, I would agree that the manual trans in the Carrera T offers better and smoother engagement.

All that said, I'm glad I have both in my garage. I personally wouldn't want to daily the Carrera T - I just enjoy the utility, comfort and driving experience offered by the M2 Comp as a daily driving experience.

I think its the same but with few changes .

"Driving pleasure in its purest form: both vehicles are equipped with a manual transmission as standard. The BMW M2 CS is a true pioneer in this regard, being the first CS model fitted with a 6-speed manual transmission as standard. It impresses with its compact design and low weight and offers smoother shifting comfort thanks to the use of carbon friction linings. This is further improved by the gearbox’s engagement speed control, which automatically blips the throttle when changing down and lowers the engine revs when changing up."

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...bmw-m2-cs.html

[ptgltw]

Are you running out of gear in the BMW in your 1-2 shift or is the feel just not good?

If it's the feel, do yourself a favor and get the Auto Solutions SSK. BMW manual shifters frankly suck hard. I knew this from my M2C and had the shifter before my M2 CS arrived. First mod I did.

Now it shifts just as good or better than my Porsche GT cars.

[Ilikemike]

CDV delete and Ultimate Clutch pedal might also help, I have the same frustration with my M2 CS, the clutch ‘contact point’ is just unknowable, but I have the SSK on order.. having said that, I recently watched a YouTube review of the SSK and the ultimate clutch pedal done together, but with no CDV delete, and the driver continue to find the clutch pedal engagement point to be unreliable/vague. Maybe the CDV delete is the answer.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Spydert

https://www.evo.co.uk/sports-cars/20...nd-porsche-911

This is precisely the sort of auto journalism that I spend hours each day browsing youtube and safari to find.

Given that auto journalists have better access to cars than us the driving public, they should use that access to query issues such as this that are beyond the reach of the average driver. I mean, I can go test drive most Porsches and BMWs at the dealership most times, but to get a comparison such as this - same day, same circuit/roads, that's nigh on impossible for the average bloke (or Miss).

This particular comparison is quite pertinent to me as these are the very two cars I am considering getting to keep as we drive off into the E future, and the issue of manual vs auto has really bugged me.

On the 992, I wonder if Henry would have felt the same way if it was the GTS instead of the S. Or the new Carrera T. When I spoke with a guy at the Porsche dealership a while back, he said exactly the same thing - generally, the 992 feels better in a pdk but the GTS he drove (just came out when we spoke) made a better case for getting the manual. It's also interesting that when Porsche brought the new Carrera T to California for reviews, five out of the six cars had a manual transmission. In fact I don't recollect seeing any review of the car with the pdk. Makes me wonder if cars like the GTS and T were optimized in development for the manual, while the base Carreras, S and turbos are optimized for the pdk. Personally, I've driven the Carrera S in both pdk and manual. I think on the whole, I might agree with Henry here on the pdk, but I found the manual in the 911 to be so much better than the Bmw manuals I had driven, that that alone made it feel really good.

Which brings me to the M2. I've had my OG LCI for going on five years now and I have determined that the one thing that could make me ever sell the car is the 1-2 up shift. I hate it. It is almost never smooth. I still haven't figured out the best revs at which to shift, nor the ideal clutch take up point. It's so annoying for what is an otherwise wonderful driving experience. When I'm at red lights, I am slightly worried about the car behind driving into me - basically every single time. And when I rev it out to get a head start, the revs fall so quickly that the car loses speed significantly before I can get it into 2 and going again. When I drove the manual 992, this issue was basically non existent and that alone made me fall in love with the car immediately. Within minutes, I was driving it as comfortably as I drive my M2 and this was a performance center car. I've also never had this issue the numerous times I've driven ND Miatas. No fear of the red light with that car either. The Miata revs more easily and sustains momentum coming out of first gear way better than the M2. The shift to 2 is smoother and you're never wondering where the clutch take up point is. It's really annoying cos in the M2, I quite enjoy 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and all the others. I also find downshifting generally fine across the range. But that 1 - 2 shift really, really pisses me off. All this said though, I'm not sure I would have gone for the M2 in Dct. But it has got me thinking about an M4 with auto and idrive 7. Before both give way to no shifter and drive 8.

I realize that Henry drove a CS and not an OG but my understanding is that its the same manual transmission in both - right?

Hats off to Catchpole for a great article. He does a great job and I hope we see even more more of these thoughtful and insightful reviews.

This is an old article from 2021, not sure why Evo reposts articles, maybe there was a small update to it?

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by Spydert

https://www.evo.co.uk/sports-cars/20...nd-porsche-911

When I'm at red lights, I am slightly worried about the car behind driving into me - basically every single time. And when I rev it out to get a head start, the revs fall so quickly that the car loses speed significantly before I can get it into 2 and going again. .

Glad to read I’m not the only one. Want to start a therapy group? LOL! 😜

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Glad to read I’m not the only one. Want to start a therapy group? LOL! 😜

The car has "hill assist".

[Spydert]

Originally Posted by eCotY2020

I think its the same but with few changes .

"Driving pleasure in its purest form: both vehicles are equipped with a manual transmission as standard. The BMW M2 CS is a true pioneer in this regard, being the first CS model fitted with a 6-speed manual transmission as standard. It impresses with its compact design and low weight and offers smoother shifting comfort thanks to the use of carbon friction linings. This is further improved by the gearbox’s engagement speed control, which automatically blips the throttle when changing down and lowers the engine revs when changing up."

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...bmw-m2-cs.html

Would actually love to drive an M2CS and compare this. Maybe the OG and Comp didn't get carbon friction linings? It would make sense that BMW would make improvements wherever they could and I'll be surprised if they weren't aware of the short comings of their manual transmissions.

[Spydert]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

Are you running out of gear in the BMW in your 1-2 shift or is the feel just not good?

If it's the feel, do yourself a favor and get the Auto Solutions SSK. BMW manual shifters frankly suck hard. I knew this from my M2C and had the shifter before my M2 CS arrived. First mod I did.

Now it shifts just as good or better than my Porsche GT cars.

Thanks. The issue is with the shift not being the smoothest and that leading to all the other factors I mentioned coming into play.
I'll def look into this. Cheers.

[Spydert]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Glad to read I’m not the only one. Want to start a therapy group? LOL! 😜

[aroundelway]

Porsche does not do good manuals and they never have.

I learned on a 356C and have driven or owned everything until 992 when the cars got too large. None of them had a good manual. Some of them had gear levers that seemed more connected to the moon than the car.

There is a special place in hell for the creator of the 915.

[Davil]

I don’t really have any problem with BMW manual gearboxes. My first ever car was a BMW manual (e21), continuing on with the manual BMW history, third car (e21), fifth car (e30), sixth car (e36), seventh car (e36), eighth car (2002), 12th car (e36). They just have a certain rhythm you need to have from 1st to 2nd. The rest is gravy. Who really cares about 1st to 2nd anyway?

[M2CSforthewin]

Originally Posted by Davil

I don’t really have any problem with BMW manual gearboxes. My first ever car was a BMW manual (e21), continuing on with the manual BMW history, third car (e21), fifth car (e30), sixth car (e36), seventh car (e36), eighth car (2002), 12th car (e36). They just have a certain rhythm you need to have from 1st to 2nd. The rest is gravy. Who really cares about 1st to 2nd anyway?

Agree 100% regarding the rhythm. Just have to be a little bit patient with revs on the 1-2 shift and everything is smooth.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by aroundelway

Porsche does not do good manuals and they never have.

I learned on a 356C and have driven or owned everything until 992 when the cars got too large. None of them had a good manual. Some of them had gear levers that seemed more connected to the moon than the car.

There is a special place in hell for the creator of the 915.

Tell us how you really feel? LOL
And that 901...ahhh sweet sweet extra long shifts! I know there's a gear there somewhere!