[chris719]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

I've been talking with ActiveAutowerke in preparation for flashing my OG M2, which I plan on tracking so consistent performance is important to me. AA found that the burbles were increasing exhaust temps on their track build, so they offer the option to remove burbles completely or under certain conditions. I wonder if the CS might have its burbles toned down for performance reasons too.

I think at some point in MY 21 most BMWs have had burbles reduced. It's quite well known on the G20 forums but several people have reported it with M2C also. Might be related, might not be.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by chris719

This is some BS. It's like saying that steering hasn't been real since power steering came about.

Manuals aren't very compatible with such software controlled engine experiences, sure. They might be dead for Lamborghini, but clearly Porsche has no problems if there is demand.

I was born in an era when cars were cars, and drivers were drivers.

Now, cars are just a lot of software and drivers are, well, not the same (let's be PC conscious)

On another note, my car does 0 - 62 in 1 second, it does 1/4-Mile in 6 seconds, and goes around Nurburgring in just shy of 5 minutes. BUTTTTT, I can't drive it because I'm scared of it ....

The point is, driving is like fishing in many ways, you do it because you enjoy it, not because you catch the biggest fish.

M2CS, in my view, is the car you drive because the sun is shining, the weather is just right, the sea is glass-like calm, and time has stood still. There's you, the road, and your M2 CS -

E N bloody J O Y

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I was born in an era when cars were cars, and drivers were drivers.

Now, cars are just a lot of software and drivers are, well, not the same (let's be PC conscious)

On another note, my car does 0 - 62 in 1 second, it does 1/4-Mile in 6 seconds, and goes around Nurburgring in just shy of 5 minutes. BUTTTTT, I can't drive it because I'm scared of it ....

The point is, driving is like fishing in many ways, you do it because you enjoy it, not because you catch the biggest fish.

M2CS, in my view, is the car you drive because the sun is shining, the weather is just right, the sea is glass-like calm, and time has stood still. There's you, the road, and your M2 CS -

E N bloody J O Y

That's exactly how I feel driving it. It's a real journey experience. Almost annoying when I arrive at the destination

[Hapkin]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

I had the pleasure of taking Hapkin's M2CS out for a few laps at Sonoma this past weekend back to back with my '20 M2C. Here are my impressions:

The EDC suspension on the M2CS is able to absorb mid corner bumps and apex curbs much better than the non-adjustable M2C suspension. The M2CS feels supple and progressive whereas the M2C feels springy and on edge. The CS digs into the pavement whereas the C struggles to take a set.

The power seems mostly similar between the cars below 5k RPM. I am told that it pulls harder to redline, but I was short shifting to respect the owner and did not have a chance to experience this.

The ceramic brakes are more consistent when cold and easier to modulate when warm than the steel brakes on the M2C. The steering is also more lively; this is likely due to the ~40 pound unsprung weight difference between the two cars.

Thanks for the opportunity to drive this wonderful car!

smmmurf , it was revelatory to have a pro driver take this around a track. Next go around, you have permission to beat the crap out of it. Note: after we talked, I bumped it to Sport Plus mode for suspension, sport for steering, Sport throttle, MDM on. It was so planted. Made a huge difference in corner entry and exit stability.

Have fun today at Button willow!

[Hapkin]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

I've been talking with ActiveAutowerke in preparation for flashing my OG M2, which I plan on tracking so consistent performance is important to me. AA found that the burbles were increasing exhaust temps on their track build, so they offer the option to remove burbles completely or under certain conditions. I wonder if the CS might have its burbles toned down for performance reasons too.

This makes a lot of sense. Track focused reliability and a lot spent on extra cooling so makes sense to also tone down burbles if they increase exhaust temps.

[Hapkin]

Originally Posted by chris719

Placebo, manufacturing dates, who knows, but they didn't change the transmission, that's for sure. The 6MT has no firmware of its own and is delivered by ZF as a sealed unit, P/N unchanged.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/p/BMW...007858801.html

The transmission has had several part number changes over the years, usually due to supplier ECO.

23-00-7-858-801 is the remanufactured P/N and 23-00-7-858-800 is as new.

Super interesting. My buddy with his 2021 M2C with 5k miles and I (2020cs, 2000miles) switched cars back and forth multiple times and the shift feel was notably different. It definitely wasn't placebo. His felt slightly clunkier and mine shifted more cleanly with slightly less slop when in gear.

[BMWF87Melb]

Originally Posted by Hapkin

Super interesting. My buddy with his 2021 M2C with 5k miles and I (2020cs, 2000miles) switched cars back and forth multiple times and the shift feel was notably different. It definitely wasn't placebo. His felt slightly clunkier and mine shifted more cleanly with slightly less slop when in gear.

That's good to hear! Hopefully someone finds out more on this and can pinpoint if a particular part is different on the 6MT on the CS. Very much hoping there is something there that can be carried over to help improve the M2/M2C gear shift feel (without going to the extent with something like the AS SSK).

Could it be something as simple as changes in shifter bushings?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by BMWF87Melb

That's good to hear! Hopefully someone finds out more on this and can pinpoint if a particular part is different on the 6MT on the CS. Very much hoping there is something there that can be carried over to help improve the M2/M2C gear shift feel (without going to the extent with something like the AS SSK).

Could it be something as simple as changes in shifter bushings?

Might be. I don't think it's the transmission unless BMW is violating their own quality system by modifying parts and not creating new PNs.

I'm not aware of a fast method to compare PNs between the shifter assemblies though. Some people here used to be able to do that very quickly.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

I've been talking with ActiveAutowerke in preparation for flashing my OG M2, which I plan on tracking so consistent performance is important to me. AA found that the burbles were increasing exhaust temps on their track build, so they offer the option to remove burbles completely or under certain conditions. I wonder if the CS might have its burbles toned down for performance reasons too.

Burbles would increase temps as you are burning fuel in the exhaust to achieve them…


On topic, man CS owners are hilarious they really seem to fall for the marketing placebo BS.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Megator

On topic, man CS owners are hilarious they really seem to fall for the marketing placebo BS.

I don't know. I think most probably enjoy driving it. You should try it one day. It's really pretty good.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by Davil

I don't know. I think most probably enjoy driving it. You should try it one day. It's really pretty good.

I would love to compare my M2C vs a CS.

What I find a bit redic, is ppl acting like the CS is some gift from god, when its a bit of a parts bin special.

Aside from the roof and EDC there is nothing that isn't the same as an M2C or that one can easily tack onto an M2C.

Is it a great car? Sure. Is it 20k better than an M2C? This depends heavily on what you value.

For me the 20K difference is not worth it because I wanted a track tool and was going to rip out the seats, suspension, and brakes anyways (taking away 30-40% of what makes a CS special). Additionally with the 20K I can make my M2C much faster than a stock M2CS.

Anyways my point is more that it's hilarious how ppl think the CS is so much better when so much is the same as a C. See the guy above talking about shift knobs and stuff. That has to be some kind of placebo/perception effect. Which fine and it has its place in the world but looses its lustre if you aren't under its influence.

[Peterometer]

What is with all of the non owners and their mental gymnastics to justify something none of us care about?

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by Megator

I would love to compare my M2C vs a CS.

What I find a bit redic, is ppl acting like the CS is some gift from god, when its a bit of a parts bin special.

Aside from the roof and EDC there is nothing that isn't the same as an M2C or that one can easily tack onto an M2C.

Is it a great car? Sure. Is it 20k better than an M2C? This depends heavily on what you value.

For me the 20K difference is not worth it because I wanted a track tool and was going to rip out the seats, suspension, and brakes anyways (taking away 30-40% of what makes a CS special). Additionally with the 20K I can make my M2C much faster than a stock M2CS.

Anyways my point is more that it's hilarious how ppl think the CS is so much better when so much is the same as a C. See the guy above talking about shift knobs and stuff. That has to be some kind of placebo/perception effect. Which fine and it has its place in the world but looses its lustre if you aren't under its influence.

Pretty much every enthusiast with enough money to buy a CS is well aware of modified cars and probably has purchased plenty of mods for cars in the past. At this phase in my life I don't want to rip apart their car and shred the warranty in the process. I don't want to spend a bunch of time and money trying to get the suspension components dialed in to have great performance but also be comfortable on public road surfaces. If my only option was the M2C I would have purchased a Cayman GTS 4.0 or possibly Cadillac Blackwing instead.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by Hapkin

Super interesting. My buddy with his 2021 M2C with 5k miles and I (2020cs, 2000miles) switched cars back and forth multiple times and the shift feel was notably different. It definitely wasn't placebo. His felt slightly clunkier and mine shifted more cleanly with slightly less slop when in gear.

Nah man. These people know everything. Re read his comment and pick one of his answers because clearly he is right and well, you aren't.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by Megator

I would love to compare my M2C vs a CS.

What I find a bit redic, is ppl acting like the CS is some gift from god, when its a bit of a parts bin special.

Aside from the roof and EDC there is nothing that isn't the same as an M2C or that one can easily tack onto an M2C.

Is it a great car? Sure. Is it 20k better than an M2C? This depends heavily on what you value.

For me the 20K difference is not worth it because I wanted a track tool and was going to rip out the seats, suspension, and brakes anyways (taking away 30-40% of what makes a CS special). Additionally with the 20K I can make my M2C much faster than a stock M2CS.

Anyways my point is more that it's hilarious how ppl think the CS is so much better when so much is the same as a C. See the guy above talking about shift knobs and stuff. That has to be some kind of placebo/perception effect. Which fine and it has its place in the world but looses its lustre if you aren't under its influence.

Ma!, we got another one. Mensa members all around us. Who knew the M2C owners were so smart.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

Pretty much every enthusiast with enough money to buy a CS is well aware of modified cars and probably has purchased plenty of mods for cars in the past. At this phase in my life I don't want to rip apart their car and shred the warranty in the process. I don't want to spend a bunch of time and money trying to get the suspension components dialed in to have great performance but also be comfortable on public road surfaces. If my only option was the M2C I would have purchased a Cayman GTS 4.0 or possibly Cadillac Blackwing instead.

Most M2C owners don't have Cayman GTS money though

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I was born in an era when cars were cars, and drivers were drivers.

Now, cars are just a lot of software and drivers are, well, not the same (let's be PC conscious)

On another note, my car does 0 - 62 in 1 second, it does 1/4-Mile in 6 seconds, and goes around Nurburgring in just shy of 5 minutes. BUTTTTT, I can't drive it because I'm scared of it ....

The point is, driving is like fishing in many ways, you do it because you enjoy it, not because you catch the biggest fish.

M2CS, in my view, is the car you drive because the sun is shining, the weather is just right, the sea is glass-like calm, and time has stood still. There's you, the road, and your M2 CS -

E N bloody J O Y

Great analogy with the fishing....you're pretty wise sir.

PS this has become my favorite troll thread now

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

Great analogy with the fishing....you're pretty wise sir.

PS this has become my favorite troll thread now

I'm honoured Mike

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

Most M2C owners don't have Cayman GTS money though

Lol, come on, this type of snobbery is BS.

Most M2 CS owners must not have Cayman GT4 money.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

Nah man. These people know everything. Re read his comment and pick one of his answers because clearly he is right and well, you aren't.

It's good to try to be objective and understand what the actual differences are, rather than what people believe or marketing says. A lot of CS owners seem to be new to the F87 platform and don't know the history. We've already had one person claim the synchros now have graphene (wrong), the shift knob is different (wrong). The transmission is the exact same unit (fact).

I suggest you try harder to recognize and overcome your cognitive bias. Any 1st->2nd shift quality difference must be in the linkage or mounts if there is any difference. I am not aware of ANY part number differences in this area either. If there are changes I will be happy to accept and attribute the reported differences to that.

I have driven 5 different BMWs with this exact same transmission, F80, 2x F82, F87, and F87 Comp. There are very much unit-to-unit differences in notchiness. One of the M4's I drove was really bad compared to the other M4. You refuse to even consider this, though, since you appear to be insecure and can't overcome the bias induced by your need to justify your purchase.

My hypotheses have a factual basis while yours are just an emotional reaction. Do better.

Some people here, like me, just want to understand the actual differences. Questioning what the real differences are is not an attack on the CS or CS owners. I realize there are a lot of lurkers here who want to trash the CS as a value proposition and that gets old fast. I think that's a personal judgment and they should stop beating that dead horse.


BTW, here is a comparison of part numbers between 2019 M2 LCI / M2C and a 2021 M2 CS:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=25_0558

https://parts.bmwmonterey.com/a/BMW_...n/25_0558.html

Every part number looks identical to me unless I missed something. I also checked the GS6-45BZ SHIFT MECHANISM COMPONENTS and MOUNT / SUPPORT FOR GS6-45BZ.

[M3R1]

Is it not a possibility that the differences between the M2c and M2cs shifter feel can be attributed to the chassis stiffness? The M2cs "is said" to be stiffer because of the roof and the rear subframe bolted directly to the body frame without any rubber bushings.

Here is a story that might have some relevance. A few cars ago for me, a buddy and I both had the same 5th gen Camaro's (year and color, lol). Both were pretty heavily modified, however I replaced my subframe bushings with semi solid one's. My car felt objectively better in ways that you would not think would change as a result. Of course it could have been a car to car variation, however prior to the mod they did feel similar.

I traded a 2021 M2c for my M2cs. I drove both cars back to back and there is a difference, subtle but still noticeable. My shifts felt slightly more positive in the cs. I would like to be clear, I did not have any complaints at all with regards to the M2c shifter feel. If it wasn't for the fact that I hated the long beach blue (I ordered the car without seeing it in person), I would still have the comp 100%.

Being so unhappy with the LBB I spent over a month searching for a different color comp. I found a brand new black one that was available only to learn that they were asking 18k over msrp, I believe they got 15k over, just crazy! Used ones were (and still are) going for more than they were when new, so I was forced to buy the cs...

All of the Comp vs CS and CS vs GT4/GTS discussions are entertaining and will never end. I am one of the passionate few that could justify the money for reasons that have been beaten to death on these forums. The car is awesome and needs nothing, to me this is its greatest appeal. I love my CS and also would have loved the comp if I kept it.

Just my $.02, carry on with the discussion...

[chris719]

Drivetrain is mounted to chassis with rubber…

Diff is solid mount on all M2 models. So, no, I disagree.

I’ve driven both Z4M coupe and roadster (owned), which is a massive difference in torsional stiffness far beyond what M2 CS provides over a car already having a roof. There is no difference in shift quality. If anything, the coupe shifted worse into 2nd.