[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

But that track is tiny and full of tight twists/turns more akin to a fast autocross than a large road course. So how did the M4 go faster?

Because of the straight section. It's no autocross or something. It's a real track Steve stated the m4 comp pulled way harder at that section than the 1m/m2...

Sent from my potato

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I haven't driven a ZCP car yet but have driven a F80 and F87. I was mostly poking fun that some people think the ZCP is so much better because of a tiny bump in HP and a 10mm increase in tire width.

Obviously the increase in power and tire width doesn't turn what they thought was a big fat/heavy GT style car into a good handling track car when their major complaints were the size and weight of the chassis. If anything the increased grip gives it less 'agility'.

I don't want to sound rude but the way I see it the m4 comp has a less tricky chassis setup than the normal m4 thus giving it an easier feel to drive it fast. And why shouldnt more rubber on a dry track mean more agile?

Anyway that's what I read when the M4 comp came out. The m4 I drove was very powerful but also not very civilised in chassis balance
etc.

With the m4 comp they made it a bit better less hairy hence a better laptime . The normal m4 has balance and traction problems to start with plus it's size vs M2. With M4 comp they addressed those issues in a good way.
But it's still a bigger car. That's physics

Cheers
Robin

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I haven't driven a ZCP car yet but have driven a F80 and F87. I was mostly poking fun that some people think the ZCP is so much better because of a tiny bump in HP and a 10mm increase in tire width.

Obviously the increase in power and tire width doesn't turn what they thought was a big fat/heavy GT style car into a good handling track car when their major complaints were the size and weight of the chassis. If anything the increased grip gives it less 'agility'.

I'm really not up on all the ZCP specs but I'm under the impression it's

bigger wheels,
wider tread ,
Revised shock rates
Adaptive suspension
Modest bump in power

I think you've lost the plot when talking about grip. More grip = better agility, better turn in and also better power being put down to get off the corner and down a straight.

The 1M and the F8x M3/M4 can be twitchy at the limit and also on power. They all need more tire, both front and especially rear.

The ZCP setup fixes the issues of the M3/M4 and clearly is a marked improvement.

And yes, it's still a big heavy car that does well at getting out of its own way with Moar POWAH

[gthal]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I'm really not up on all the ZCP specs but I'm under the impression it's

bigger wheels,
wider tread ,
Revised shock rates
Adaptive suspension
Modest bump in power

I think you've lost the plot when talking about grip. More grip = better agility, better turn in and also better power being put down to get off the corner and down a straight.

The 1M and the F8x M3/M4 can be twitchy at the limit and also on power. They all need more tire, both front and especially rear.

The ZCP setup fixes the issues of the M3/M4 and clearly is a marked improvement.

And yes, it's still a big heavy car that does well at getting out of its own way with Moar POWAH

^---- This.

[redux]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Another advantage of Sport+ by another forum member:

"More aggressive use of the anti-lag system thus faster acceleration out of the corners. Also keeps the engine noticably cooler in sport plus."

Acceleration will only be faster if you can get the power down, sport plus makes doing that a bit of a pain. Enhanced engine cooling really doesn't matter when going for a lap time on street tires.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by redux

Acceleration will only be faster if you can get the power down, sport plus makes doing that a bit of a pain. Enhanced engine cooling really doesn't matter when going for a lap time on street tires.

What you said would be true if this was a Non-ZCP. Additionally, Sport+ (at least on ZCP) is not nearly as crazy or over sensitive as the Sport+ on E92. Therefore, I still strongly believe that he would have gotten a better time on Sport or Sport+ considering the anti-lag mechanism is totally turned off in Efficient mode.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by cntzl

What you said would be true if this was a Non-ZCP. Additionally, Sport+ (at least on ZCP) is not nearly as crazy or over sensitive as the Sport+ on E92. Therefore, I still strongly believe that he would have gotten a better time on Sport or Sport+ considering the anti-lag mechanism is totally turned off in Efficient mode.

Anti lag mechanism ? Is this the turbo waste gate being kept closed ??

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Anti lag mechanism ? Is this the turbo waste gate being kept closed ??

Yes, and according to an interview with the head of M department there are also certain special engine control functions that make the activation of turbo chargers quicker in Sport and Sport+ modes only:

So what are the differences between the EFFICIENT, SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes?

In the SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes, the waste gates remain closed under partial load and the mass flow is routed through the turbines, to ensure that the turbo chargers are already rotating at a higher base speed even in standby. Moreover, certain special engine control functions are brought into play that accelerate activation of the turbo chargers. This means that the car responds more closely to the accelerator in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes.

In EFFICIENT mode, everything is more levelled out, with a high orientation towards comfort.

[Robin_NL]

Steve should have had his own serious reasons when using Efficient mode and with the given info above I understand him.

In general: You just don't want a furious on/off switch (exaggerated) when setting a fast laptime, if there's something less hairy available at a push of a button...

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

I'm a big Group B Rally fan and remember Juha Kankkunen 4 times World Champion saying te following about his new engineered 1986 Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 E2:

"The engineers put a new bigger turbo on it and the the car produced 550BHP. We had wheelspin(4wd) on dry asphalt in 3rd gear( <950kgs(2100lbs) weight of the car) ... Our headsets almost flew of when accelerating()

So we asked the engineers for a smoother turbo/engine. And they came up with a 530hp version which was more controllable..."

Imagine about 2s to 62mph and 8 to 125mph (v max)(short geared on tarmac), 30 years ago...

Juha and his collection


Legendary men in legendary cars;

Cheers
Robin

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Yes, and according to an interview with the head of M department there are also certain special engine control functions that make the activation of turbo chargers quicker in Sport and Sport+ modes only:

Thank you for the explanation !

I've been a naturally aspirated bimwad for years and learning turbo motors like the rest of us.

This feature was first employed on the 1M with the M BUTTON. The 1M doesn't have engine or suspension modes but it does have the M button which does the following

- keeps wastegate closed for quicker spooling of the turbo
- different throttle map is used.

While the M engineer certainly waxes poetic about the M3/M4 setup it certainly sounds like the same two functions are going on and a little hocus pocus and waving a wand.

I absolutely DO not use this button on a short track or in autocross situations. It makes the throttle super sensitive and a very small application of the throttle gives a lot more power than normal.

The 1M and the M3/M4 without ZCP both can break away at the rear end in a heartbeat In a way that is difficult to catch. When making rapid movements in an autocross, the *last* thing I want is a touchy throttle or a hair trigger.

It's a good feeling on the track - when I remember to use it, which really isn't often.

I most often use the M button when driving on a country road because it feels " sportier ".

I would bet that Sutcliffe prefers the better control of the car, and that's why he used efficient mode. I am sure I would also.

I have run autocrosses with both modes on the same day and I am quicker *without * the M button on In the 1M.

[mofomat]

Does it say he used efficient mode when setting the lap time? The video is never edited in real time, so just because they've inserted a clip of the instruments with efficient displayed, it doesn't mean that clip was filmed when he was setting the lap time.