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      02-12-2020, 06:25 AM   #1519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastertec View Post
Build & price on Canadian site shows dual zone. Confirmed by Sales person. Makes sense we have seen both versions on display CS. Same option code as M2C. 534.
If the Canadian car has it, it would seem the USA one would also (i.e. BMWNA seems unlikely to import two different setups to me).
Canada does piggyback off all US automotive rules and regulations to help streamline trade and travel. However, when is comes to non-regulated packages and options, they do vary between both regions.

For instance, Canada gets the 40/20/40 rear fold down seats, the US only fitted with a 40/60 split.

Also, Canada gets a third 12v outlet, under the glovebox, US doesn't..

There are a few more differences I won't bore you with but the point being, it's possible that the HVAC and Comfort Access feature could be different between the two sovereign countries, so it's anyone's guess, until it's officially confirm.
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      02-12-2020, 06:37 AM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Then the airco of the US-spec M2 CS differs from the one of the EURO-spec M2 CS.
On the configuration page of the CS (interior picture) on BMW.be, just the same AC is showing as the one of the M2 competition.

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      02-12-2020, 06:48 AM   #1521
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Originally Posted by Pol View Post
On the configuration page of the CS (interior picture) on BMW.be, just the same AC is showing as the one of the M2 competition.
I would take any photos from a configurator with a grain of salt. They are notorious for misleading images.
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      02-12-2020, 10:05 AM   #1522
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Comfort access is not coming on the Canadian CS. I wish it was but that being said it’s not a deal breaker. I found on my 240 when walking away from the car it was more convenient to hit the lock button on the fob. But when approaching the car just grabbing the door handle was nice. No big deal but dumb to omit it on this car. Just my .02.

Last edited by Mastertec; 02-12-2020 at 10:16 AM..
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      02-12-2020, 10:28 AM   #1523
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If you go to the Canadian regional forum, under M2 CS Canadian pricing there is a product planning bulletin. It shows the differences between the M2C and the M2CS. Looks pretty official to me. No mention of the M2CS not having dual zone airco. Does say no comfort access. If I had to guess the US model will be similar.
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      02-12-2020, 11:31 AM   #1524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastertec View Post
Comfort access is not coming on the Canadian CS. I wish it was but that being said it’s not a deal breaker. I found on my 240 when walking away from the car it was more convenient to hit the lock button on the fob. But when approaching the car just grabbing the door handle was nice. No big deal but dumb to omit it on this car. Just my .02.
This is me as well. I always lock with a fob. Touching the handle is nice for unlocking, but by no means a deal breaker. It's not like the dark ages of using a physical key . I'd still like to hear a real justification for it. I'd believe added security before reduced weight. Does this also mean no remote start? I'll have to look up comfort access features.

https://www.ppsl-bmw.sg/insights/Comfort-access-system

It's funny, my Jag only has half this feature. I don't believe it locks itself if I walk away from it. I just don't have to remove the key from pocket to get in and start. It won't be missed if I still have remote start feature.
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      02-12-2020, 12:56 PM   #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
On the configuration page of the CS (interior picture) on BMW.be, just the same AC is showing as the one of the M2 competition.
I would take any photos from a configurator with a grain of salt. They are notorious for misleading images.
Yeah, inaccuracies can happen with configurators, for example the M2 CS configurator features no black panel instrument cluster with squared figures (still pre-black panel with rounded figures and more divisions), door handles in dry carbon (instead of wet carbon) and headrests in Dakota leather (instead of Merino leather).

So what about the M2 CS airco: dual zone as on the M2C or simplified/single zone as on the M3 CS, M4 CS and M4 GTS ?
  • official M2 CS release pictures for the European LHD model (1J31) show simplified/single zone airco (see for example here);
  • the M2 CS photo vehicle on display in Belgium (EUR-spec model 1J31) equally features the simplified/single zone airco; but that car was 'older' (built in March 2019); its VIN specs don't feature code 534 "Automatic Airconditioning" (see here);
  • the M2 CS photo vehicle on display in L.A. (US-spec model 1J33) features the dual zone airco; this car is more 'recent' (built in August 2019); its VIN specs feature indeed option 534 "Automatic Airconditioning" (see here);
  • the M2 CS photo vehicle on display in the UK (EUR-spec RHD model 1J32) features dual zone airco; its VIN specs are not disclosed (though a forum fellow confirmed to have these) but the car is more 'recent' and will feature option 534 "Automatic Airconditioning";
So it's fairly easy: check whether your M2 CS order features code 534 "Automatic Airconditioning". If affirmative, your M2 CS will feature dual zone airco. And if it's a EUR-spec model 1J31, the official M2 CS release pictures of the airco (November 2019) are already outdated.

But there will still be a difference: the M2 Competition features ventilation in the rear - that was omitted on the M2 CS.

M2 CS - interior - front (configurator):
Name:  M2CS_Interior.png
Views: 749
Size:  1.39 MB

M2 Competition - interior - front (configurator):
Name:  M2C_Interior.png
Views: 735
Size:  1.33 MB

M2 CS - interior - rear (configurator):
Name:  M2CS_Interior2.png
Views: 735
Size:  1.32 MB

M2 Competition - interior - rear (configurator):
Name:  M2C_Interior2.png
Views: 738
Size:  1.28 MB
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      02-12-2020, 01:26 PM   #1526
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My order form contains the Code 534 as well.
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      02-12-2020, 02:04 PM   #1527
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Lol at 6lb weight reduction of carbon console but removing rear climate. Just keep the rear climate and make heavier carbon console. Granted, I don't sit in the rear, but would be nice for the kiddos

Kinda has M colors


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      02-12-2020, 02:53 PM   #1528
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I wonder when they will announce the official curb weight. It was listed under the specs sheet from early November as "to be announced".
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      02-12-2020, 03:56 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
My order form contains the Code 534 as well.
Then your M2 CS got dual zone airco. Same as on the M2C, except for ventilation in the rear (rear end of the center console - passengers in the backseats).
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      02-12-2020, 04:04 PM   #1530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
I wonder when they will announce the official curb weight. It was listed under the specs sheet from early November as "to be announced".
Same goes for the official Nürburgring Nordschleife M2 CS lap time. In a November 2019 interview BMW M CEO Flasch replied "we are going to disclose something but it is too early" (see here). No word ever since.

As 07:42 is the lap time of the first generation Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) (manual, of course - no PDK) clocked By Sport Auto (Christian Gebhardt) in 2015, I hope that the M2 CS manages to perform that lap time. I think that it's gonna be a close call (± 07:43).
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      02-16-2020, 09:17 AM   #1531
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Interesting date ranges for delivery confirmation for the countries with orders. All the way out through September. Seems to be orders in same country from April to September so maybe they are building multiple batches for each region? Makes me think US deliveries will be September or October. I may be in Munich the beginning of September. That would be neat if timing worked out.
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      02-16-2020, 10:43 AM   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
I felt the same way then as I do now.
Then the position makes sense to me as it's consistent .


Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
However, there was a pretty significant difference between the M3 and the M3 CSL. I just don't see much difference between the M2C and the M2CS-- realistically, there's not much there that can't be simply bolted on.
This is the part I don't 100% agree with. I don't see much of a gap in the differences other than the CSL being genuinely lighter. Revised suspension, different seats, changed out body panels (except doors on CS), etc are all the same set of mods. Same deal on engine etc. So the CSL was genuinely lighter, but otherwise was not a greater set of modifications, and it was a larger total markup than the CS. So I only about 20% agree with that idea.
Lighter is HUGE deal.
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      02-16-2020, 10:56 AM   #1533
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Quote:
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Lighter is HUGE deal.
Also depends on where/how though too. Unsprung versus sprung, CG etc. It does look like the official number in the Canadian documentation is 25kg lighter for the CS, without the carbon brakes. The E46 CSL was ~100+kg lighter? Not sure what the CG changes and unsprung changes were though as those matter the most if you are really after ultimate handling impact. So the CS isn't really delivering a lot on the "lighter" overall, but it may be in a few places that make a reasonable difference. Until the actual cars are out and reviewed it'll be hard to know the impact.
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      02-16-2020, 11:03 AM   #1534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Lighter is HUGE deal.
I agree it's a huge deal (lighter is *always* better)-- my point was that BMW did a lot more *specifically* to the CSL. On the CS, it seems it was more "flash the motor and raid the parts bin for CF to make the car lighter".

Maybe that means that the M2C is just so good out of the box that all BMW could do to improve it was a mild flash, an MP suspension and go nuts with CF?

I just meant that I feel that BMW did more change work to the CSL than the CS-- hence the longer list of different parts M3/CSL v. M2C/CS.

R.

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      02-16-2020, 11:21 AM   #1535
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We take for granted how easy it is to make more power on a modern turbo motor. It still takes many hours of "auto tuning" fuel maps. Then hand tuning some other parameters for optimization. We see it as just another tune. Non turbo required headwork, new springs, retainers, valve job, intake, etc.

Lighter also translates to less liveable.

The M2C super good or of the box. Is probably why the CS has the adaptive suspension. C already had the s55. These models didn't go according to plan
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      02-16-2020, 12:23 PM   #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Lighter is HUGE deal.
I agree it's a huge deal (lighter is *always* better)-- my point was that BMW did a lot more *specifically* to the CSL. On the CS, it seems it was more "flash the motor and raid the parts bin for CF to make the car lighter".

Maybe that means that the M2C is just so good out of the box that all BMW could do to improve it was a mild flash, an MP suspension and go nuts with CF?

I just meant that I feel that BMW did more change work to the CSL than the CS-- hence the longer list of different parts M3/CSL v. M2C/CS.

R.
I agree. I assume it's not worth the development cost at time to do a CSL. Also they may want the next CSL to be on the m3/m4 platform because it's more the flagship model. The m2 is the right size though.
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      02-16-2020, 12:27 PM   #1537
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I've mentioned before, but will restate. In the current environment of safety standards a CSL will have to be in the design stage from the very start of a production generation. Weight savings is already built into a design by the need to improve fuel economy.

My personal opinion is that future CSL models are a gimmick.
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      02-16-2020, 03:14 PM   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
I agree it's a huge deal (lighter is *always* better)-- my point was that BMW did a lot more *specifically* to the CSL. On the CS, it seems it was more "flash the motor and raid the parts bin for CF to make the car lighter".
Maybe that means that the M2C is just so good out of the box that all BMW could do to improve it was a mild flash, an MP suspension and go nuts with CF?
I just meant that I feel that BMW did more change work to the CSL than the CS-- hence the longer list of different parts M3/CSL v. M2C/CS.
R.
The E46 M3 CSL deserves the "L" of "Leichtbau" (lightweight construction). With 1385 kg, 110 kg lighter than the E46 M3. Some serious surgery:

"What is the E46 M3 CSL?
The E46 M3 CSL is a special variation of the standard E46 M3 coupe that features numerous lightweight components, as well as a myriad of drivetrain, chassis and cosmetic enhancements. The "CSL" moniker denotes "Coupe Sport Lightweight" and was first used on the 3.0 CSL homologation special in 1971. A total of 1,383 E46 M3 CSLs were produced to European specification between June and December of 2003 in both left-hand drive (841 built) and right-hand drive (542 built) configuration. (This figure excludes an additional series of at least a dozen pre-production M3 CSL prototypes built between September of 2002 and February of 2003.)
The E46 M3 CSL is most notably distinguished from the standard E46 M3 by its various lightweight components. The largest of these is the carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (GFP) roof panel, which weighs over 13 pounds less than its conventional steel counterpart. The front bumper support is also constructed of GFP, as is the uniquely-shaped front airdam with its single intake on the left-hand side. At the rear, the lower rear valance panel is made of GFP, while the reshaped trunk lid is made of SMC (sheet molding compound). Fiberglass-reinforced plastic is used for the rear bumper supports and this material is also "sandwiched" with thermoplastics and foam to create the trunk floor and rear bulkhead. As a final weight-saving measure, the rear window glass is extra thin. BMW claimed that the M3 CSL weighed 3,054 pounds, or roughly 10 percent less than the normal model.
The E46 M3 CSL is powered by a modified version of the usual 3,246-cc S54 inline-six that lacks a conventional mass airflow meter. Instead, the air draw is determined directly by the DME for quicker calculations. There is also a more efficient air intake system made largely of GFP and routed through larger manifolds to the circular opening in the front airdam. Further changes include modified camshafts and exhaust valves, plus a lightweight exhaust system constructed of thinner steel. The CSL-spec engine is rated at 360 hp (DIN) at 7,900 rpm and 273 lb-ft of torque at 4,300 rpm.
The M3 CSL is equipped exclusively with the SMG II transmission featuring a special launch control mode that automatically shifts at the optimum point for maximum acceleration. This is mated to the standard E46 M3 final drive and M Differential Lock. Finally, the DSC system of the M3 CSL can be switched to M Track Mode via the steering wheel-mounted button. This raises the threshold at which the system intervenes to allow for some degree of wheelspin.
The suspension of the M3 CSL is based closely upon that of the standard E46 M3. However, it does incorporate a number of changes, including front coil springs that are shorter by one winding, different spring and shock rates (for both rebound and compression), plus larger anti-roll bars in the front (30.8 mm) and rear (22.5 mm). In addition, the normal aluminum front control arms (shared with the standard E46 M3) are joined by aluminum rear suspension links with stiffer ball bushings. Rounding out the chassis upgrades are a quicker steering rack (overall ratio: 14.5:1) and larger 13.7-inch cross-drilled front brake rotors. Finally, the M3 CSL rides on lightweight cross-spoke alloy wheels measuring 8.5x19-inches in front (0.5 inches wider than the normal M3) and 9.5x19-inches in the rear. These are shod with special Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires sized 235/35ZR19 (front) and 265/30ZR19 (rear). (Conventional tires mounted to the 19-inch forged M Double Spoke II wheels from the standard E46 M3 were also offered as a no-cost alternative.)
In addition to the aforementioned lightweight body components and unique wheels, the exterior of the E46 M3 CSL is further distinguished by a special "CSL" insert in place of the usual "M3" model designation within the decorative intake grilles on either fender. In addition, there is an "M3 CSL" badge on the trunk lid. Exterior colors were limited to Silver Grey metallic (A08) and Black Sapphire metallic (475).
Though the interior of the M3 CSL retains the standard E46 M3 dashboard (with Titan Shadow trim), instruments and general controls, it differs significantly in most other areas. The minimal door panels are constructed of lightweight GFP and lack the usual side airbags. Likewise, the center console surrounding the parking brake is also made of GFP and contains the power mirror switch that normally resides on the driver-side door. The deeply-bolstered front seats (similar to those found in the M3 GTR) have GFP backings and are upholstered in a combination of Anthracite "Reflex" cloth and Amaretta (synthetic suede). The two special individually-shaped rear seats are also covered in the same materials. The Alcantara-wrapped M three-spoke steering wheel contains only the M Track Mode switch in place of the usual audio and cruise control buttons. The parking brake handle is similarly fashioned from Alcantara and both door sills contain unique trim plates.
In keeping with the lightweight, driver-focused manner of the M3 CSL, standard comforts were limited to just power windows, an auto-dimming rearview mirror, central locking and the on-board computer. The short list of extra-cost options included only an anti-theft alarm, green-tinted windshield stripe or climate comfort windshield, velour floor mats, bi-Xenon headlights with headlight washers (washers excluded on UK-spec examples), Park Distance Control, rain sensor with automatic headlight control, automatic climate control and various cassette/CD/mini-disc radios. There were also three no-cost options available: deletion of the rear "M3 CSL" badge, a "smokers package" that included an ashtray and cigarette lighter, plus the fitment of the forged M Double Spoke II alloy wheels with conventional tires from the standard M3 in place of the CSL's cross-spoke alloy wheels with Cup tires. One final factory option was the removal of the standard 155-mph top speed limiter."

(source: here)

Interested to know all the differences between the 450hp 550Nm S55 engine in the M2 CS and the 450hp 550Nm S55 engine in the M3C/M4C.
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      02-16-2020, 05:02 PM   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Also depends on where/how though too. Unsprung versus sprung, CG etc. It does look like the official number in the Canadian documentation is 25kg lighter for the CS, without the carbon brakes. The E46 CSL was ~100+kg lighter? Not sure what the CG changes and unsprung changes were though as those matter the most if you are really after ultimate handling impact. So the CS isn't really delivering a lot on the "lighter" overall, but it may be in a few places that make a reasonable difference. Until the actual cars are out and reviewed it'll be hard to know the impact.
The 763M wheels alone accounts for approximately 17lb of the saved weight.
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      02-16-2020, 05:41 PM   #1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I've mentioned before, but will restate. In the current environment of safety standards a CSL will have to be in the design stage from the very start of a production generation.
This is a great, and easily overlooked, point.
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