[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Just thought I'd share some initial observations.

M2 vs. M235i - first observations.

Overall:
Clearly faster, engine louder in a good way, far sharper handling, meaner looks, much better brakes, rougher ride but hardly bad at all, and much, much louder inside with more rattles on rough streets.

Ride:
Firmer ride but not bad at all, much more rattling (likely from firmer ride). Much has been said about how harsh the ride is, I dont agree at all. My Cayman was much worse. There is some compliance here, it just gets bouncy on the big bumps. m235i was definitely softer in the comfort setting but had much more body roll as a tradeoff. I prefer the M2's sharper reflexes and even like the stiffer ride. But, I much prefer the m235i's lack of tire noise, rattles & overall noise (excluding engine/exhaust which I like loud) which lent to a more expensive, luxurious feel when just cruising. I wish the M2 had the m235i's excellent adjustable suspension, like the M3/M4 have.

Powertrain:
Doesn't seem to have the instant throttle response the m235i had, somehow. ZF 8-speed far superior to DCT when in automatic mode. The DCT wants to jump to 2nd gear instantly in comfort, doesnt respond quickly at all in any auto mode; the gears feel much taller, and somehow there just isnt that massive torquey feel the m235i had, despite knowing you're actually moving much faster.
The increase lag combined with slow to react DCT makes the gas pedal feel like mush compared with how amazingly quick the ZF auto responds. The m235i just felt like it had so much bottom-end torque which the ZF could call upon expertly and intuitively in auto mode. However, in manual mode, it no competition. The ZF was brilliant for an auto but the DCT reacts instantly in a way the ZF can't match.
Overall though, Im a bit disappointed. The algorithms for the auto-mode for DCT are not remotely as good as Porsche's PDK nor the ZF 8-speed. Also, DCT makes all sorts of weird rattly and whining noises which often make me question its longevity. Lastly, despite moving at a fast clip than the m235i, it doesnt "feel" faster. The taller gearing & increased lag makes it feel slower actually.

Performance:
M2 is faster but doesnt feel much faster at all. m235i had a more rewarding torque delivery off the line and so it "felt" fast in nearly all situations below 70mph. The M2 clearly handles far, far better. Its so precise, agile, and flat in corners in a way that makes the m235i feel like a sedan. The M2's braking is also stunning compared with the m235i. Barely any effort and it stops so much better with so much less brake dive. The steering is also just leagues better, with fast reactions from what feels like a much faster ratio. The car takes corners so much more flat and the M-power diff makes drifting out of a corner so exciting and easy its hard to resist! The DCT needs some final polish, but I prefer it to the manual version I drove. Not a fan of BMW's rubbery manuals, though I know some are. ZF makes BMW's 8-speeds and Porsche's amazing PDK. Why doesnt BMW just order PDK from them as well? Its leagues better than their DCT.
Anyhow, overall, I love this car though I do feel shorter gearing, less lag, about 50-75 more hp with a slight weight loss would result in perfection. That said, the M2 always feel alive, like a sprightly, angry bull dog ready to play. That said, so did the m235i, the M2 just takes it up a notch.

Appearance:
Hands down, the wider fenders and larger brakes make my m235i looks neutered when the two are parked side by side. The M2 is no beauty, but it looks mean, wide and purposeful which I love! Slightly wider fenders would do wonders to make the M2 looks like it just left a DTM race. Anyhow, Im a fan as it is.

Summary:
The M2 has proven to me just how shockingly good the standard m235i is. It feels every bit about 90% of an M2. Side by side though, I just cant get over the demure looks of the non-M car. But, the m235i does ride much better in comfort mode and is easier to live with. However, it's M2 for me. I love the sharper handling, mean exhaust note, and especially the look of the wider fenders and bigger brakes. A closer decision than I expected honestly. And if they offered the widebody on the m235i/m240i, I dont know that I'd get the M2.


11/12/19 update:
So I've had the M2 for about a month now. I've gotten more used to the ride and interior noise and now I actually think the engine/exhaust are too quiet, I still cant stand the tire/wind/road roar and will try to add back some insulation, and my g-d the M2 is fast! The M235i even with the Msport exhaust doesn't sound as good and as mean as the stock M2 to me, but I want even more engine noise! I think I will go for a catted DP, from what I've read on the forums.

I jumped in the m235i the other day and here's a few direct comparison observations:
The seats are MUCH better & much more comfy in the m235i while offering nearly the same bolstering. The M2 seats are rock hard. Funny enough, I originally rented a 2018 M2 in Cancun and loved the seats. Did they get upgraded later? My 2016 M2 seats feel like sitting on a concrete bench.

Also, the M235i ride that I thought I loved so much suddenly felt like a floaty Cadillac, so softly sprung (even in Sport+) where the M2 feels absolutely connected to the road and alive. I never realized how much body roll the M235i has, but it still handles really damn well. The lack of a LSD and spinning the inside wheel is lame though and now I noticed it much more.

The M235i is MUCH quieter inside too and the ZF is better than the DCT 90% of the time, outside of driving at 10/10th's. It just shifts so much more intuitively and smoother and is quicker to reach in auto mode while 90% as quick in manual mode. Its shocking how good that ZF transmission is. The DCT is better in manual mode too though the full throttle upshifts are strangely violent, unlike my prior PDK Cayman.

Also, initially I actually didnt feel the M2 was much faster. Well, after I drove the M235i again and then immediately jumped into the M2, suddenly the M2 felt like a rocket.

In summary: the M2 feels much more serious a performance car, closer to what I felt with my Cayman and 911, with a level of precision and aggression that's addictive despite the road noise and slightly harsher ride. The M235i is absolutely wonderful, but it does feel like a comfy 2-door version of a fast sedan in comparison to the hardcore M2. I've decided to stick with the M2 and sell the M235i. I am truly starting to love the M2. It feels like a short, squat, pissed off little bulldog of a car aka, just a ton of fun and loaded with character thats missing in many sporting machines today.

And thats it! Hope this comparison was helpful to some.

[akkando]

Better tires might reduce road noise and increase comfort. It did for me going from Conti to Michelin ps4s.

The DCT is only worth driving in manual mode. For me it sees auto less than 5% of time. Whatever logic it has I don't care, because it's never in auto.

[DanG]

Your problem is driving in comfort mode. Most of your problems go away in Sport. Comfort mode is a dog in the M2. Make sure that throttle response is turned up in Sport in the iDrive menu.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by DanG

Your problem is driving in comfort mode. Most of your problems go away in Sport. Comfort mode is a dog in the M2. Make sure that throttle response is turned up in Sport in the iDrive menu.

Oh yeah comfort mode is infuriating mushy pedal.

[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Interesting, my sport mode is mush too, didnt know there was a setting for that. I'll have to check!
Even in sport+ the transmission doesnt react as quickly or intuitively as the ZF 8speed did, but it does do these awesome throttle blips downshifting as you slow down!
The only place the DCT shines for me is in manual mode. Sometimes though, I'll downshift and get on the gas and it feels like there's some sort of delay, like the clutch is slipping, or there is turbo lag, but definitely a delay and then suddenly its full power. The m235i had much quicker response, maybe smaller turbo, less boost, smarter algorithm on the 8speed, dunno.

[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Originally Posted by akkando

Better tires might reduce road noise and increase comfort. It did for me going from Conti to Michelin ps4s.

The DCT is only worth driving in manual mode. For me it sees auto less than 5% of time. Whatever logic it has I don't care, because it's never in auto.

This is the utter truth. Im treating the car like an automated manual now. Only use auto mode when Im really in traffic or not actively engaged in driving the car.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

Interesting, my sport mode is mush too, didnt know there was a setting for that. I'll have to check!
Even in sport+ the transmission doesnt react as quickly or intuitively as the ZF 8speed did, but it does do these awesome throttle blips downshifting as you slow down!
The only place the DCT shines for me is in manual mode. Sometimes though, I'll downshift and get on the gas and it feels like there's some sort of delay, like the clutch is slipping, or there is turbo lag, but definitely a delay and then suddenly its full power. The m235i had much quicker response, maybe smaller turbo, less boost, smarter algorithm on the 8speed, dunno.

If you down shift you should be able to tell if the transmission shifted instantly or it's slow. If you are accelerating before the down shift it may have guessed your next gear was a higher gear instead of a lower one.

I down shift or foot off the gas then down shift before I mash the pedal.

[termigni]

thanks for great honest review between the two.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

Just thought I'd share some initial observations.

M2 vs. M235i - first observations.

Overall:
Clearly faster, engine louder in a good way, far sharper handling, meaner looks, much better brakes, rougher ride but hardly bad at all, and much, much louder inside with more rattles on rough streets.

Ride:
Firmer ride but not bad at all, much more rattling (likely from firmer ride). Much has been said about how harsh the ride is, I dont agree at all. My Cayman was much worse. There is some compliance here, it just gets bouncy on the big bumps. m235i was definitely softer in the comfort setting but had much more body roll as a tradeoff. I prefer the M2's sharper reflexes and even like the stiffer ride. But, I much prefer the m235i's lack of tire noise, rattles & overall noise (excluding engine/exhaust which I like loud) which lent to a more expensive, luxurious feel when just cruising. I wish the M2 had the m235i's excellent adjustable suspension, like the M3/M4 have.

Powertrain:
Doesn't seem to have the instant throttle response the m235i had, somehow. ZF 8-speed far superior to DCT when in automatic mode. The DCT wants to jump to 2nd gear instantly in comfort, doesnt respond quickly at all in any auto mode; the gears feel much taller, and somehow there just isnt that massive torquey feel the m235i had, despite knowing you're actually moving much faster.
The increase lag combined with slow to react DCT makes the gas pedal feel like mush compared with how amazingly quick the ZF auto responds. The m235i just felt like it had so much bottom-end torque which the ZF could call upon expertly and intuitively in auto mode. However, in manual mode, it no competition. The ZF was brilliant for an auto but the DCT reacts instantly in a way the ZF can't match.
Overall though, Im a bit disappointed. The algorithms for the auto-mode for DCT are not remotely as good as Porsche's PDK nor the ZF 8-speed. Also, DCT makes all sorts of weird rattly and whining noises which often make me question its longevity. Lastly, despite moving at a fast clip than the m235i, it doesnt "feel" faster. The taller gearing & increased lag makes it feel slower actually.

Performance:
M2 is faster but doesnt feel much faster at all. m235i had a more rewarding torque delivery off the line and so it "felt" fast in nearly all situations below 70mph. The M2 clearly handles far, far better. Its so precise, agile, and flat in corners in a way that makes the m235i feel like a sedan. The M2's braking is also stunning compared with the m235i. Barely any effort and it stops so much better with so much less brake dive. The steering is also just leagues better, with fast reactions from what feels like a much faster ratio. The car takes corners so much more flat and the M-power diff makes drifting out of a corner so exciting and easy its hard to resist! The DCT needs some final polish, but I prefer it to the manual version I drove. Not a fan of BMW's rubbery manuals, though I know some are. ZF makes BMW's 8-speeds and Porsche's amazing PDK. Why doesnt BMW just order PDK from them as well? Its leagues better than their DCT.
Anyhow, overall, I love this car though I do feel shorter gearing, less lag, about 50-75 more hp with a slight weight loss would result in perfection. That said, the M2 always feel alive, like a sprightly, angry bull dog ready to play. That said, so did the m235i, the M2 just takes it up a notch.

Appearance:
Hands down, the wider fenders and larger brakes make my m235i looks neutered when the two are parked side by side. The M2 is no beauty, but it looks mean, wide and purposeful which I love! Slightly wider fenders would do wonders to make the M2 looks like it just left a DTM race. Anyhow, Im a fan as it is.

Summary:
The M2 has proven to me just how shockingly good the standard m235i is. It feels every bit about 90% of an M2. Side by side though, I just cant get over the demure looks of the non-M car. But, the m235i does ride much better in comfort mode and is easier to live with. However, it's M2 for me. I love the sharper handling, mean exhaust note, and especially the look of the wider fenders and bigger brakes. A closer decision than I expected honestly. And if they offered the widebody on the m235i/m240i, I dont know that I'd get the M2.

you won't see a huge difference between the m235i and the og M2 in daily driving...you'll see a huge difference in the canyons. I took my buddiess m235i and my m2 in the canyons and they feel like different cars. The m2 a lot more flat and more confidence inspiring car to drive in the twisties.

as for the porsche pdk...there pretty much the standard for duel clutches...some reviewers argue the shift logic is better then ferrari's.

but i think the main advantage porsche is probably superior shift logic and programming.

but the m2, caymans and 911s you need to get them in manual to get the full effect of those kind of cars.

[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

you won't see a huge difference between the m235i and the og M2 in daily driving...you'll see a huge difference in the canyons. I took my buddiess m235i and my m2 in the canyons and they feel like different cars. The m2 a lot more flat and more confidence inspiring car to drive in the twisties.

as for the porsche pdk...there pretty much the standard for duel clutches...some reviewers argue the shift logic is better then ferrari's.

but i think the main advantage porsche is probably superior shift logic and programming.

but the m2, caymans and 911s you need to get them in manual to get the full effect of those kind of cars.

So its a full week with the M2 now and I couldnt agree more. The M235i is hands down the better daily driver and in 90% of driving it feels the better car. However, get both cars going at full tilt, in manual mode, sport+, and the M2 comes alive in a way the M235i simply can't. It reflexes are sharper, cornering flatter, much more grip, faster and more feelsome steering, and DCT can rip off downshifts much faster than the ZF 8Speed.

My only issue is, outside of driving 10/10th's, the M2 is simply too loud, too rough, too many rattles, creaks, and groanes (from DCT & diff), and the DCT is just bad. It lurches at low speeds, sometimes like a beginner learning to use a clutch for the first time. It's algorithms are way, way off from being intuitive and so you never feel connected to the car in the way you do with the M235i when just puttering about town.

I'm very curious if any of this was changed with the LCI 2018 updates, or the 2019 move to an entirely new engine? I wonder if DCT algorithms wereupdated and they drive better? I still love these cars, but where the M235i blew my mind when I first got it, the M2 is too hardcore for me perhaps? We'll see, I intend on keeping her a while, maybe trying 18" wheels, etc. I know the M4 is supposed to be more refined, more of a GT but I just love the agility of a smaller wheelbase.

And yes, PDK is utterly brilliant. It somehow just knows exactly what you want it to do. It does lurch a bit too from a crawl and does occassionally get confused and fire off a harsh shift in a way a torque-converter auto never would. Overall though, the ZF 8-speed in Alfa's & BMW's, as well as PDK are the most amazing transmissions I've ever experienced. DCT, on the other hand, is only good in manual mode and really rather bad as an automatic.

[DanG]

Hmm. My M2 makes zero rattles and the DCT is a superior upgrade from the M235i I use to have.

I use my M2 as a daily driver. It doesn’t appear to me to have a ruffed ride. Your noise problem can easily be fixed by either an ASD bypass harness or coding out ASD.

I have the M Performance exhaust and therefore my M2 is a bit louder than my M235i but isnopt unpleasant.

[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Originally Posted by DanG

Hmm. My M2 makes zero rattles and the DCT is a superior upgrade from the M235i I use to have.

I use my M2 as a daily driver. It doesn’t appear to me to have a ruffed ride. Your noise problem can easily be fixed by either an ASD bypass harness or coding out ASD.

I have the M Performance exhaust and therefore my M2 is a bit louder than my M235i but isnopt unpleasant.

I should've been specific, the rattles are only evident over rough stuff like drawbridge metal road near my office and very bad pavement where my m235i just quietly glided over it. DCT is superior in manual mode to me as well, no doubt, its lightning quick. Its just as an automatic that it isnt the best.

I am seriously thinking about the MPE but WOW, the price!! Hopefully a used one come to the forums soon!

On the ASD, I am very curious about disabling it to hear the effect. Is it significant? I have the ASD bypass from my M235i, would it work with the M2 AMP as well? I assume same HK system, same AMP, same ASD?

[Poochie]

The M2 objectively has a louder stock exhaust, stiffer static sport-skewed dampers and less sounded deadening than the M235i.

There is not way around that really, it's just the nature of the beast. Two different cars that appeal to different demographics.

Some folks added back the sounded deadening from the M235i back into the M2 with good result.

Something to consider:

Sound deadening https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1228618

[DanG]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

I should've been specific, the rattles are only evident over rough stuff like drawbridge metal road near my office and very bad pavement where my m235i just quietly glided over it. DCT is superior in manual mode to me as well, no doubt, its lightning quick. Its just as an automatic that it isnt the best.

I am seriously thinking about the MPE but WOW, the price!! Hopefully a used one come to the forums soon!

On the ASD, I am very curious about disabling it to hear the effect. Is it significant? I have the ASD bypass from my M235i, would it work with the M2 AMP as well? I assume same HK system, same AMP, same ASD?

Yes the ASD bypass harness for the M235i and the M2 are the same.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

So its a full week with the M2 now and I couldnt agree more. The M235i is hands down the better daily driver and in 90% of driving it feels the better car. However, get both cars going at full tilt, in manual mode, sport+, and the M2 comes alive in a way the M235i simply can't. It reflexes are sharper, cornering flatter, much more grip, faster and more feelsome steering, and DCT can rip off downshifts much faster than the ZF 8Speed.

My only issue is, outside of driving 10/10th's, the M2 is simply too loud, too rough, too many rattles, creaks, and groanes (from DCT & diff), and the DCT is just bad. It lurches at low speeds, sometimes like a beginner learning to use a clutch for the first time. It's algorithms are way, way off from being intuitive and so you never feel connected to the car in the way you do with the M235i when just puttering about town.

I'm very curious if any of this was changed with the LCI 2018 updates, or the 2019 move to an entirely new engine? I wonder if DCT algorithms wereupdated and they drive better? I still love these cars, but where the M235i blew my mind when I first got it, the M2 is too hardcore for me perhaps? We'll see, I intend on keeping her a while, maybe trying 18" wheels, etc. I know the M4 is supposed to be more refined, more of a GT but I just love the agility of a smaller wheelbase.

And yes, PDK is utterly brilliant. It somehow just knows exactly what you want it to do. It does lurch a bit too from a crawl and does occassionally get confused and fire off a harsh shift in a way a torque-converter auto never would. Overall though, the ZF 8-speed in Alfa's & BMW's, as well as PDK are the most amazing transmissions I've ever experienced. DCT, on the other hand, is only good in manual mode and really rather bad as an automatic.

Thats why you should've got the manual m2 ..

but in seriousness, its probably the programming. my ex has the 2nd gen audi tt with the 2nd gen dsg and it doesnt lurch in traffic..it drives like a auto but still has instantanous shifts when you go in manual mode.

[DarthFader]

Yes, an M2 can replace a M235 for daily driving but you will sacrifice some ride quality and have to deal with more mechanical noises. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Don't get MPE if you think the car is already too noisy. Switch your ASD harness asap and it will help with noise in general - you might enjoy the mechanical noises when not mixed with fake sh*t. The ASD was seriously giving me a headache.

DCT is not instant torque like the ZF but it's still a great transmission especially in manual mode - after all it is an automated manual. I have a DCT on my daily driver and I enjoy it - no lurching. The M2 is manual.
Get your car checked out if it is lurching. This is likely a software issue and perhaps an update will solve it.

I really hope you get the DCT sorted out and then you'll enjoy the car more.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

So its a full week with the M2 now and I couldnt agree more. The M235i is hands down the better daily driver and in 90% of driving it feels the better car. However, get both cars going at full tilt, in manual mode, sport+, and the M2 comes alive in a way the M235i simply can't. It reflexes are sharper, cornering flatter, much more grip, faster and more feelsome steering, and DCT can rip off downshifts much faster than the ZF 8Speed.

My only issue is, outside of driving 10/10th's, the M2 is simply too loud, too rough, too many rattles, creaks, and groanes (from DCT & diff), and the DCT is just bad. It lurches at low speeds, sometimes like a beginner learning to use a clutch for the first time. It's algorithms are way, way off from being intuitive and so you never feel connected to the car in the way you do with the M235i when just puttering about town.

I'm very curious if any of this was changed with the LCI 2018 updates, or the 2019 move to an entirely new engine? I wonder if DCT algorithms wereupdated and they drive better? I still love these cars, but where the M235i blew my mind when I first got it, the M2 is too hardcore for me perhaps? We'll see, I intend on keeping her a while, maybe trying 18" wheels, etc. I know the M4 is supposed to be more refined, more of a GT but I just love the agility of a smaller wheelbase.

And yes, PDK is utterly brilliant. It somehow just knows exactly what you want it to do. It does lurch a bit too from a crawl and does occassionally get confused and fire off a harsh shift in a way a torque-converter auto never would. Overall though, the ZF 8-speed in Alfa's & BMW's, as well as PDK are the most amazing transmissions I've ever experienced. DCT, on the other hand, is only good in manual mode and really rather bad as an automatic.

They're pretty much the same daily driver.

Same general size
same visibility
same front seats
same back seats
same trunk
same fold down rear seats
same back up camera
same parking sensors
same heated seats and wheels

gas milage in the 235i is probably better
235i has adaptive suspension, but if you don't mind the m2 suspension, what's the difference?

Based on your post stick with the m235i or 240 with zf8 or Porsche pdk with better programming or one of the newer BMWs with zf8 like m5 or the 340. The next gen m2/m3/m4 will come with a zf8 as well, you could grab that when they come out.

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by DarthFader

Yes, an M2 can replace a M235 for daily driving but you will sacrifice some ride quality and have to deal with more mechanical noises. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Don't get MPE if you think the car is already too noisy. Switch your ASD harness asap and it will help with noise in general - you might enjoy the mechanical noises when not mixed with fake sh*t. The ASD was seriously giving me a headache.

DCT is not instant torque like the ZF but it's still a great transmission especially in manual mode - after all it is an automated manual. I have a DCT on my daily driver and I enjoy it - no lurching. The M2 is manual.
Get your car checked out if it is lurching. This is likely a software issue and perhaps an update will solve it.

I really hope you get the DCT sorted out and then you'll enjoy the car more.

My M2 lurches hard when I start driving immediately after a cold start. There shouldn't be a problem. Right?

It bounces back and forth really hard, here's an example: https://youtu.be/llKR0om7WGA?t=250

[DarthFader]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

My M2 lurches hard when I start driving immediately after a cold start. There shouldn't be a problem. Right?

It bounces back and forth really hard, here's an example: https://youtu.be/llKR0om7WGA?t=250

That looks annoying as hell. Maybe some other M2 DCT guys can chime in on this, but that can't be normal. My 135is has DCT and doesn't do that ever. It's super smooth.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

My M2 lurches hard when I start driving immediately after a cold start. There shouldn't be a problem. Right?

It bounces back and forth really hard, here's an example: https://youtu.be/llKR0om7WGA?t=250

Sounds like you need to go to the dealer and have your DCT checked. My DCT is smooth in auto mode and no lurches when cold start.

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by DanG

Sounds like you need to go to the dealer and have your DCT checked. My DCT is smooth in auto mode and no lurches when cold start.

One thing to note is that I kind of live on the side of a mountain, and this only happens when I let off the throttle when going downhill at around 20km/h and when the car is completely cold. I have had many interactions with my dealership and I am sure they will just tell me they cannot reproduce the problem.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by DarthFader

That looks annoying as hell. Maybe some other M2 DCT guys can chime in on this, but that can't be normal. My 135is has DCT and doesn't do that ever. It's super smooth.

It's common. More likely to happen if the car is cold or going up a hill I think. Try activating creep mode to start rolling. Then be deliberate with the throttle so the clutch isn't slipping. Change to 2nd as soon as possible.

Or just launch the car from 2nd.

If it's happening in any gear other than 1st that's not normal I think.