[1mm2]

Originally Posted by DanG

The 1M and M2 are both proper M cars.

The current purists will say 1M and OG M2 are not proper M cars due to lack of S prefix.

The previous purists will say the current M cars aren't proper M cars due to turbos.

The future purists will say all previous M cars aren't proper M cars due to combustion engines.

By 2100 nobody will know what an M car is.

The point is who really gives a shit what anyone says, as long as you're happy...

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by 1mm2

Sure, if you don't mind driving a ticking time bomb...

Lol, this entire forum is so toxic with the M2 vs M2C banter.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Transmission? Is DCT dead?

I believe to have understood that we won't see M-DCT again in the G87 (next gen M2). ZF8 is bound to replace it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Moderators need to fix title so it says s58 or allow users to edit title.

Taken care of.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I believe to have understood that we won't see M-DCT again in the G87 (next gen M2). ZF8 is bound to replace it.

That might support the S58 theory as the torque on that is too much for anything else.

Although - over on the M3 forum there's a thread about the G80 having a 'pure' model with 6MT and a derated engine to allow it to cope.

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I believe to have understood that we won't see M-DCT again in the G87 (next gen M2). ZF8 is bound to replace it.

If this is due to torque numbers I don't know how I feel about that.

Save the manuals.

Save the DCTs.

Save the combustion engines.

Save the planet.

Save yourselves.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by pz619

I think the next M2 will have the S58. Now that I’ve had a taste of the M2 with the S55 I don’t think I can go back to the regular series motors. Don’t want to offend anyone here, but to me the only benefit of the N55 over the S55 is the sound. The original M2 is a fantastic car, but I just think the S55 kicks up one notch.

there is another benefit of the N55 which is lighter weight and it is more playful from, dare I say, better response at the beginning of the rev range, combined with 100+ lbs lighter weight at the front. I still remember the first day I picked up my M2 and I was praising how its handling felt just like my Cooper S. Not so much in the M2C.

These 2 cars are basically same cars with pros and cons vs each other.

Obviously, if given both at the same time, majority of people will now choose S engine over the N (or B) because of M.

Lets keep in mind that Supra with a non-S engine puts down faster lap time than a M2C on Laguna Seca. Also realize that 1M has a N motor, not an S motor and 1M goes down as one of the greatest M car in history. It's not all about S branded engine.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by DanG

There have been numerous threads about M cars that have engines that don’t start with an S. The 1M and M2 are both proper M cars.

Once BMW came up with M2C, everyone seems to forget how great 1M is, or if it ever existed. How many people, esp M2C worshippers, can say they drove an 1M? Honestly speaking 1M is a lot better driving car than a M2C and a lot closer to the E30 M3 in terms of BMW M DNA, all without the "S" engine.

[COChris]

Originally Posted by termigni

Once BMW came up with M2C, everyone seems to forget how great 1M is, or if it ever existed. How many people, esp M2C worshippers, can say they drove an 1M? Honestly speaking 1M is a lot better driving car than a M2C and a lot closer to the E30 M3 in terms of BMW M DNA, all without the "S" engine.

I have owned both. I love the 1M to death (looks so freaking cool!), but on road and on track, the M2C is faster and easier to drive at the limit. Both about the same in terms of comfort. The S55 has a significantly more exotic, racy feel to it, and sounds outstanding with a single catless midpipe. Seats are also 100x better in the M2C.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by COChris

I have owned both. I love the 1M to death (looks so freaking cool!), but on road and on track, the M2C is faster and easier to drive at the limit. Both about the same in terms of comfort. The S55 has a significantly more exotic, racy feel to it, and sounds outstanding with a single catless midpipe. Seats are also 100x better in the M2C.

M2C is obviously faster. it's a newer car.

I'm talking stock vs stock. if we talk mod vs mod, it's an endless conversation. Not everyone wants to equip catless in their cars. Stock to stock, M2C really sounds bad. I currently have both M2 and M2C in my garage and M2C sound really is disappointing.

Seats? I have Recaro Pole Positions in my S2000. now this seat is "100X" better than both M2 and M2c. M2C seats aren't 100x better than 1M seats. the are slightly better (not even noticeable on the streets).

I'm not trying to create M2 vs M2C debate here. My point above was for those who think 1M and M2 isn't a "real" M car just because these have N motor.

[heavyD^2]

My prediction is that the next gen M2 is introduced with the high output version of the B58. The only reason the M2C got the S55 was because they could no longer use the N55. The S58 looks to have too much power for a RWD M2 and you only have to look at the performance of the Z4 M40i with the high output B58 (Standing ¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 116 mph as per C&D https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/) to see that engine is plenty capable. I just don't see the point in putting an S58 in the M2 only to detune it when you have the less expensive B58 that can already get the job done. The real question to me is if BMW can do a better job of reducing the weight of the 2 series. There's really no excuse for the M2C weighing nearly the same as the considerably larger M4.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

My prediction is that the next gen M2 is introduced with the high output version of the B58. The only reason the M2C got the S55 was because they could no longer use the N55. The S58 looks to have too much power for a RWD M2 and you only have to look at the performance of the Z4 M40i with the high output B58 (Standing ¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 116 mph as per C&D https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/) to see that engine is plenty capable. I just don't see the point in putting an S58 in the M2 only to detune it when you have the less expensive B58 that can already get the job done. The real question to me is if BMW can do a better job of reducing the weight of the 2 series. There's really no excuse for the M2C weighing nearly the same as the considerably larger M4.

The B58 can't develop 420-450hp in 91 octane (to BMW's reliability tolerance standard) which I believe is the target output for the G87

They can only use the B58 if the turbo is upgraded and most likely the cooling system as well

The G87 will get the S58 and one other reason is not technical but marketing, most buyers now would expect an S engine in a full fledged M car

[TemjinX2]

i think it'll depend on how many units BMW wants to amortize the s58 development cost.

The b58 is pretty much already paid for...the s58 is still pretty new. They'll probably just do b58 for the regular m2 and save the s58 for a cs model.

Majority of new car buyers will not know the difference between a b58 or s58 anyways. They'll just see the M engine cover and just think its a M engine.

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Transfer case can send power wherever needed.

They can program it to have 100% power go to the rear.

I think this is only on the AMG 45 S Models, from what I read.

FWD based AWD cars dont have a transfer case that splits power between front and rear. They use haldex differentials that simply do not allow more than 50% of the power in the rear. My point is, either Mercedes is tricking people like focus rs' "drift mode" is just a reprogrammed traction control system, or they are faking the claim

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

FWD based AWD cars dont have a transfer case that splits power between front and rear. They use haldex differentials that simply do not allow more than 50% of the power in the rear. My point is, either Mercedes is tricking people like focus rs' "drift mode" is just a reprogrammed traction control system, or they are faking the claim

Interesting to see what Mercedes is truly doing.

I have no doubt you're correct.

[COChris]

Originally Posted by termigni

M2C is obviously faster. it's a newer car.

I'm talking stock vs stock. if we talk mod vs mod, it's an endless conversation. Not everyone wants to equip catless in their cars. Stock to stock, M2C really sounds bad. I currently have both M2 and M2C in my garage and M2C sound really is disappointing.

Seats? I have Recaro Pole Positions in my S2000. now this seat is "100X" better than both M2 and M2c. M2C seats aren't 100x better than 1M seats. the are slightly better (not even noticeable on the streets).

I'm not trying to create M2 vs M2C debate here. My point above was for those who think 1M and M2 isn't a "real" M car just because these have N motor.

Still have primary cats on the M2C post-mod.

I did the same exact mod to my 1M. You know why? Because the stock tone was too quiet and kind of lifeless. I wanted it to sound more like what I was used to — an e46 or e36 M3 (S motor or not).

And on seats - that's great you like your s2k seats. That's a fantastic car. But I am right about M2 vs M2C seats — they are exactly 100x better. I've done the maths.

[MarkDemma]

I heard somewhere that the new M2 will be auto only / hybrid / grill even larger than the 4 concept / include more fake air scoops than the Supra.

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Interesting to see what Mercedes is truly doing.

I have no doubt you're correct.

Me too. I am really confused by all these FWD drift cars. I am not saying I hate FWD, but sliding around a FWD car is not drifting, more like teenagers who put trays under their rear wheels and lock the handbrake "drifting" haha

[chris719]

I'm not sure it matters, but I think it will get the S58 with software detune. Since the S58 is in the X3M and X4M, they will produce more units than S55. It will be less costly to put it in the M2.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by COChris

Still have primary cats on the M2C post-mod.

I did the same exact mod to my 1M. You know why? Because the stock tone was too quiet and kind of lifeless. I wanted it to sound more like what I was used to — an e46 or e36 M3 (S motor or not).

And on seats - that's great you like your s2k seats. That's a fantastic car. But I am right about M2 vs M2C seats — they are exactly 100x better. I've done the maths.

thanks for sharing your personal preferences. what did you have for breakfast this morning?

[COChris]

Originally Posted by termigni

thanks for sharing your personal preferences. what did you have for breakfast this morning?

An OG M2

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by COChris

Still have primary cats on the M2C post-mod.

I did the same exact mod to my 1M. You know why? Because the stock tone was too quiet and kind of lifeless. I wanted it to sound more like what I was used to — an e46 or e36 M3 (S motor or not).

And on seats - that's great you like your s2k seats. That's a fantastic car. But I am right about M2 vs M2C seats — they are exactly 100x better. I've done the maths.

Having driven both the M2 and the M2C. I can tell you that when you are driving, there is little difference between their seats, if any at all. Same goes for the rear view mirrors, you just don't notice them. But you know what is noticeable? The sound. The fact that S55 makes offensive sounds while getting worse fuel economy is just not convincing. As a daily driver for 99% of the time and on track for 1% of the time, making more pleasing sounds is 100 times more essential. I've done the math, too.