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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      02-28-2019, 05:28 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Imran@Evolve Hi Imram - the quote above implies you were showing wHP on your dyno in the YT clip I posted above in this thread. Were both 403 std FMIC v 413 CSF FMIC stats at the wheels or at the crank figures ? Thanks, BP.
Crank figures in the video.

Just a simple typo from CSF as they are used to WHP I guess.
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      02-28-2019, 11:52 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
Wagner and CSF make a quality intercooler but since you're spreading mis-information we're obligated to respond.
I'm glad you felt the need to respond. I should have been more clear - when I said empty claims I was referring to the 'wager' that VRSF and CSF both signed up to many months ago, and to date, there has been nothing but 'empty' posturing.
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      03-01-2019, 01:36 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
I agree, and I went ahead and bought one of the ATM units. So, if anyone here is running something like the VF-stage 2 tune or similar, and wants to buy my Active Autowerke intercooler with less than 5k miles on it, for cheap, please PM me.

I will be running a pure stage 2 turbo with inlet pipe, precision raceworks ignition kit, DV+ and 1st gen ///M Perforance Exhaust with Bluetooth controller and TTFS/XDI HPFP (fueling). These are all new additions and / or replacements for my current FBO setup with VF stage 2.

Anyway, check out this bad boy!
Turns out I can't use this intercooler because it won't work with my Evolution Racewerks Charge & TIC pipes. So I just bought the ER intercooler that's good for 650hp.

Anyone want to buy this beautiful ATM unit? PM ME, you'll get a great deal.
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      03-01-2019, 08:09 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Turns out I can't use this intercooler because it won't work with my Evolution Racewerks Charge & TIC pipes. So I just bought the ER intercooler that's good for 650hp.

Anyone want to buy this beautiful ATM unit? PM ME, you'll get a great deal.
Why won't it work? Due to the different inlet/outlet locations from stock?
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      03-01-2019, 09:01 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Turns out I can't use this intercooler because it won't work with my Evolution Racewerks Charge & TIC pipes. So I just bought the ER intercooler that's good for 650hp.

Anyone want to buy this beautiful ATM unit? PM ME, you'll get a great deal.
Why won't it work? Due to the different inlet/outlet locations from stock?
Exactly, and the rigidity of the ER pipes.
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      03-02-2019, 01:06 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Exactly, and the rigidity of the ER pipes.
Are you trying to fit the pipes with the IC fully bolted into place, or have you also tried only screwing in the bolts that hold the IC up part way so you have some play to wiggle the IC around as you fit the pipes?
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      03-02-2019, 01:09 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Exactly, and the rigidity of the ER pipes.
Are you trying to fit the pipes with the IC fully bolted into place, or have you also tried only screwing in the bolts that hold the IC up part way so you have some play to wiggle the IC around as you fit the pipes?
Tried everything. I spoke with the owner of ATM, he said it's a known issue with the ER pipes.
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      03-03-2019, 03:39 AM   #228
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Read the whole thread now, very interesting.
Many years ago I bought a 7 inch IC from one of the companies participating in this thread. I did not know as much then as I do now and thought that bigger is generally better. I have no doubts that the IC did perform well but since I was not heavily modded (intake, charge pipe, 7" IC and custom tune, appr. 380-390bhp) the IC introduced noticable lag, a good second from foot down to turbos kicking in.

Now, when I have an M2 with, as far as I can tell, minimal lag I really don't want to introduce ANY lag but I'm really interested in getting the temps down.

To be honest, I will only drive on the street and rarely pushes the car to the max. If IŽd ever track I really don't care about more power because I don't have the skills to push the car I'd reckon.. Maayybe in the future I'd possibly to a stage 1 tune but that's it.

But if I where to upgrade the FMIC and want NO lag, could you guys with experience back up that there is no more lag with, for example, a VRSF/CSF/Wagner 5" than with the stock FMIC? I mean, I'd almost rather skip upgrading at all than risking the introduction of noticable lag. And with noticable I mean measurable in tenths of seconds on a 0-100 km/h time.
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      03-03-2019, 09:51 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
Read the whole thread now, very interesting.
Many years ago I bought a 7 inch IC from one of the companies participating in this thread. I did not know as much then as I do now and thought that bigger is generally better. I have no doubts that the IC did perform well but since I was not heavily modded (intake, charge pipe, 7" IC and custom tune, appr. 380-390bhp) the IC introduced noticable lag, a good second from foot down to turbos kicking in.

Now, when I have an M2 with, as far as I can tell, minimal lag I really don't want to introduce ANY lag but I'm really interested in getting the temps down.

To be honest, I will only drive on the street and rarely pushes the car to the max. If IŽd ever track I really don't care about more power because I don't have the skills to push the car I'd reckon.. Maayybe in the future I'd possibly to a stage 1 tune but that's it.

But if I where to upgrade the FMIC and want NO lag, could you guys with experience back up that there is no more lag with, for example, a VRSF/CSF/Wagner 5" than with the stock FMIC? I mean, I'd almost rather skip upgrading at all than risking the introduction of noticable lag. And with noticable I mean measurable in tenths of seconds on a 0-100 km/h time.
You should not notice any lag with a quality 5" intercooler.

VRSF, Active Autowerke, Wagner EVO I

CSF is a 6" not the best option for a stock car
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      03-03-2019, 10:07 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
Read the whole thread now, very interesting.
Many years ago I bought a 7 inch IC from one of the companies participating in this thread. I did not know as much then as I do now and thought that bigger is generally better. I have no doubts that the IC did perform well but since I was not heavily modded (intake, charge pipe, 7" IC and custom tune, appr. 380-390bhp) the IC introduced noticable lag, a good second from foot down to turbos kicking in.

Now, when I have an M2 with, as far as I can tell, minimal lag I really don't want to introduce ANY lag but I'm really interested in getting the temps down.

To be honest, I will only drive on the street and rarely pushes the car to the max. If I´d ever track I really don't care about more power because I don't have the skills to push the car I'd reckon.. Maayybe in the future I'd possibly to a stage 1 tune but that's it.

But if I where to upgrade the FMIC and want NO lag, could you guys with experience back up that there is no more lag with, for example, a VRSF/CSF/Wagner 5" than with the stock FMIC? I mean, I'd almost rather skip upgrading at all than risking the introduction of noticable lag. And with noticable I mean measurable in tenths of seconds on a 0-100 km/h time.
You should not notice any lag with a quality 5" intercooler.

VRSF, Active Autowerke, Wagner EVO I

CSF is a 6" not the best option for a stock car
Much appreciated, thank you!
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      03-03-2019, 01:27 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
Read the whole thread now, very interesting.
Many years ago I bought a 7 inch IC from one of the companies participating in this thread. I did not know as much then as I do now and thought that bigger is generally better. I have no doubts that the IC did perform well but since I was not heavily modded (intake, charge pipe, 7" IC and custom tune, appr. 380-390bhp) the IC introduced noticable lag, a good second from foot down to turbos kicking in.

Now, when I have an M2 with, as far as I can tell, minimal lag I really don't want to introduce ANY lag but I'm really interested in getting the temps down.

To be honest, I will only drive on the street and rarely pushes the car to the max. If IŽd ever track I really don't care about more power because I don't have the skills to push the car I'd reckon.. Maayybe in the future I'd possibly to a stage 1 tune but that's it.

But if I where to upgrade the FMIC and want NO lag, could you guys with experience back up that there is no more lag with, for example, a VRSF/CSF/Wagner 5" than with the stock FMIC? I mean, I'd almost rather skip upgrading at all than risking the introduction of noticable lag. And with noticable I mean measurable in tenths of seconds on a 0-100 km/h time.

https://youtu.be/YrM8X2F1RKU
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      03-05-2019, 03:43 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristian135 View Post
Do88 is very good intercooler
I like the look of the do88 as well - from the stats it seems to be a great balance between cost and performance.

I was worried it was a bit heavy (at 13kg) but its actually 1kg lighter than a csf.

I'm confused though how to categorise it - it is 5.5" (so similar thickness to AA which is classified as a 5") but has a core volume increase of 123% over stock, which is massive.

I have been in touch with do88 and they reckon the flow rate is so high that it won't introduce turbo lag with the stock tune, but I'm concerned that the massive extra volume will cause lag.

Any opinions on this? Do you think it will cause lag without a tune? Or does the fact it flows so well make up for this?

Intercooler is here https://www.do88.se/en/artiklar/bmw-f20-f30-f87-performance-intercooler.html

Similar to csf they have crammed in alot of rows.
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      03-05-2019, 04:58 PM   #233
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I have the intercooler do88 in my garage waiting to ride, the quality is very good and it is huge! take advantage of the offer of black friday -18% ... when I mount it I will give my impressions.
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      03-06-2019, 01:13 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Cristian135 View Post
I have the intercooler do88 in my garage waiting to ride, the quality is very good and it is huge! take advantage of the offer of black friday -18% ... when I mount it I will give my impressions.
Thanks - that would be great to hear.

What mods are you running?
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      03-06-2019, 11:26 AM   #235
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I have remus mounted exhaust, but I will mount miltek 200cell downpipe, air ram air filter, charge pipe and boost pipe ftp and pure entry tube, intercooler do88, I will try mhd stage 2+.
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      03-07-2019, 01:38 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Cristian135 View Post
I have remus mounted exhaust, but I will mount miltek 200cell downpipe, air ram air filter, charge pipe and boost pipe ftp and pure entry tube, intercooler do88, I will try mhd stage 2+.
Great list! 😀

I'm thinking similar (over a period of time).

Please let us know the feel of the do88 compared to stock ic (in terms of lag etc) before the mhd flash?

Thanks.
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      03-07-2019, 02:37 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Great list! 😀

I'm thinking similar (over a period of time).

Please let us know the feel of the do88 compared to stock ic (in terms of lag etc) before the mhd flash?

Thanks.
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      03-07-2019, 09:02 AM   #238
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My friend mentioned losing boost pressure when upgrading the FMIC. I am on a stage 2 with upgraded cat, exhaust, charge pipe. I thought there would be loss if i was stock and installing lets say a CSF because its one of the larger ICs. Any thoughts?

Additional question, what if I was to switch between my stock and stage 2 tune would a CSF IC still be good to have or would I need to switch back to stock IC?
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      03-07-2019, 10:05 AM   #239
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My friend mentioned losing boost pressure when upgrading the FMIC. I am on a stage 2 with upgraded cat, exhaust, charge pipe. I thought there would be loss if i was stock and installing lets say a CSF because its one of the larger ICs. Any thoughts?

Additional question, what if I was to switch between my stock and stage 2 tune would a CSF IC still be good to have or would I need to switch back to stock IC?
Any time you get a bigger intercooler, there will be a pressure loss but when you are on stage 2 the pros (lower intake air temps) outweighs the cons (higher pressure drop)

If you go back to stock map then the cons will outweigh the pros


In your case i would recommend a 5" intercooler like Wagner EVO I, VRSF HD or Active Autowerke. It would work well with either the stock map or a stage 2
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      03-07-2019, 10:35 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Any time you get a bigger intercooler, there will be a pressure loss but when you are on stage 2 the pros (lower intake air temps) outweighs the cons (higher pressure drop)

If you go back to stock map then the cons will outweigh the pros


In your case i would recommend a 5" intercooler like Wagner EVO I, VRSF HD or Active Autowerke. It would work well with either the stock map or a stage 2
Thats helpful. Thanks
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      03-07-2019, 04:39 PM   #241
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Thats helpful. Thanks
My pleasure
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      03-09-2019, 09:49 AM   #242
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Since my ATM IC would not fit with my Evolution Racewerks charge and TIC pipes, I decided to shell out the extra $$$ for their Type 3 anodized IC that's got a 650hp core. I spoke extensively with Fred, the owner of ER, about this because I needed to be sure that his IC will be good for my Pure Stage 2 & TTFS/XDI setup. I've attached some pictures for your viewing pleasure.

One of them is a pic of the AA IC next to the ATM IC.
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