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View Poll Results: How likely are you to consider another brand after seeing the BMW MP changes?
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      01-12-2016, 06:53 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I am honestly glad they are covering less maintenance. I prefer to do my own maintenance, as I will make sure it is done perfectly. The less time my car spends at the dealer the better.

I don't even like taking my car to the dealer for it's "free" oil changes, only do it to maintain my warranty.
I agree with you 100%, although my favorite benefit of the free maintenance is the loaner cars. I have been able to "thoroughly test drive" some interesting loaner cars without having the salesperson present :-)
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      01-12-2016, 06:59 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
We do it all the time. Hardly replace rotors, usually good for the life of the car. Acuras tend to be less hard on rotors I guess. Most of our cars have a full 2mm between new and worn out. You can machine a rotor many times before you cut off 2mm, well, as long as you are doing it properly. Worked on a TSX not long ago that had 700,000 km, and still had the original rotors front and rear.

It is much more accurate to machine the rotors on the car, machining them on a lathe is not precise enough. When you do it on the car, it is taking into account the runout of the hub as well to make a surface that is running perfectly true.

Acura says we can ONLY machine them on the car for this reason.

I don't care how hard you drive the car, that will not warp a rotor. I have been heavily involved in racing for many years. Racecars don't warp rotors, and we literally get them glowing red. You may get terrible pad transfer from stopping the car with overheated hot pads, but not warped.
Assuming you are correct, you just dispelled an urban myth that has been around for decades :-)
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      01-12-2016, 09:34 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider
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Originally Posted by hiimatif View Post
No it's not. Mercedes has its own issues and they're even worse when it comes to dealer servicing. Some dealers won't even give you a loaner if you didn't buy your Benz from that dealer. Imagine buying a car from a diff state Bc they offered a good deal and then being left w a ton of inconvenience when you have to take your car in for servicing which for Benz's is fairly often.
In fairness this can happen at BMW dealers, too. How dealers run their loaner program is up to the individual dealer.
Ah gotcha. The ones I've gone to haven't but good to know. Thanks!
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      01-12-2016, 09:48 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by subrven1 View Post
Are you kidding me? Spend 50K + on a car and then extend brake life by depending on Engine braking?

I bought a BMW because i enjoy driving. The maintenance of brakes was great because you could LOVE your BMW.

Now, I have to worry about Poor Steer feel, Engine braking, Wiper blades....what next?

What's next? RFT replacement, out of warranty repairs, not being happy with a car you researched, test drove, and bought, not being a happy BMW owner, finding a new brand that drives better than your car, and finding a new brand that has free maintenance. Pretty much sucks.
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      01-13-2016, 03:26 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
You are back to comparing features and benefits of two cars and it really has nothing to do with any included free maintenance program. Reality is the new BMW included maintenance is far better than MB's and my guess is part of the reason BMW's went down some.

You can also extend the BMW coverage for a fee.
Well my point is you can upgrade Mercedes benz service plan to be the identical 2017 model bmw plan.

So for the 2017 Plan you can extend it to cover what they are excluding out?

I am talking about what they took off and how they shorten the miles which Mercedes Benz has not
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      01-13-2016, 06:09 AM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I am a tech at Acura, and Acura will no longer pay us to replace "warped" brakes. They consider it damage from improper wheel install ONLY. So, the last tech that worked on the car is going to be machining the rotors for free.

We ALL hand torque every single set of wheels. Only time our shop sees warped rotors now is from wheels that were installed somewhere else.
Poorly cast and heat treated cast iron rotors can warp, even if properly torqued. That is why cryo-cooling rotors will also help prevent warped rotors.
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      01-13-2016, 07:02 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by subrven1 View Post
The test drive was not long enough to be able to come to a good judgement on the car. I have had it for 2 months now and needless to say i am not impressed.

I am moving up from a Fusion to a BMW, upgrade on every other facet except steering. And now the Free maintenance takes a hit.

I am not a track guy so should not affect me much but the fact that you are getting lesser and lesser for your pretty penny is bothersome
To be fair, the free maintenance only affects MY 2017 and beyond so the free maintenance hit will never affect you.
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      01-13-2016, 08:15 AM   #580
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I am still curious on an answer to this.
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      01-13-2016, 09:46 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by kent11202
the driver CONSTANTLY rode the brakes (particularly down hill) or they beat the crap out of the brakes because they drive like they're in a Formula One car.
My wife, in other words.
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      01-13-2016, 09:59 AM   #582
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The only thing I want to know is, "has anyone gone through an engine drive belt in 50k miles?" Same stipulation in my wife's Audi.
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      01-13-2016, 10:31 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Man View Post
Poorly cast and heat treated cast iron rotors can warp, even if properly torqued. That is why cryo-cooling rotors will also help prevent warped rotors.
As an aside, the reason most US vehicle manufacturers originally located in Michigan (and some other cold Midwest spots) had to do with "stabilizing" cast iron engine blocks before machining them. They would take the "green iron" blocks (newly cast blocks) and leave them outside in the snow and cold for a season or two before machining them.
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      01-14-2016, 02:24 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark715 View Post
I agree with you 100%, although my favorite benefit of the free maintenance is the loaner cars. I have been able to "thoroughly test drive" some interesting loaner cars without having the salesperson present :-)
My last two loaners were a Subaru Forester and a Volvo C30. Not exactly "interesting". Could not wait to return the Forester, what a pig!
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      01-14-2016, 07:56 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by gearboxtrouble View Post
Bad move, it was honestly a big deal for what seems like >75% of their US customer base.
Jim, I'm going to say that number is lower.
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      01-14-2016, 08:01 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
It sounds like going to the lower coverage doesn't have a gigantic impact on the wallet, but it does make me wonder if BMW doesn't have the same faith in their product that they used to.
for the millionth time, what does "faith" have to do with anything? There is no change to the warranty, which covers defects (i.e., having faith something will not go wrong). BMW actually has faith--they have faith that you will need oil changes, wiper blades and brake pad replacements; maintenance is being cut back, not the warranty.
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      01-14-2016, 08:31 PM   #587
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The evidence is clear through the posts here. People consider warranty and maintenance as interchangeable. They are NOT, but are seen as the same. This is the very reason why it was a bad move. So the average(non M) buyer is loosing an oil change or 2 and some wipers, but believes that the larger(warranty) items will/might not be covered. That is bad for the brand. A very small cost cutting has the effect of putting doubt in the consumer's mind. That is penny wise, pound foolish. The smarter move would have left the term and merely removed brakes and clutch. Cost saved without damaging reputation. I hope the executive that came up with this finds a new position at VW ag.
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      01-14-2016, 09:01 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08njSTEP View Post
The evidence is clear through the posts here. People consider warranty and maintenance as interchangeable. They are NOT, but are seen as the same. This is the very reason why it was a bad move. So the average(non M) buyer is loosing an oil change or 2 and some wipers, but believes that the larger(warranty) items will/might not be covered. That is bad for the brand. A very small cost cutting has the effect of putting doubt in the consumer's mind. That is penny wise, pound foolish. The smarter move would have left the term and merely removed brakes and clutch. Cost saved without damaging reputation. I hope the executive that came up with this finds a new position at VW ag.
Trust me. The average BMW buyer barely knows that the car comes with included maintenance. They don't really process that until the day they take delivery. I can imagine a fair number of them who would just do their own maintenance if someone at the dealership didn't specifically point out to them that maintenance is included.

One thing about forums like this is that members tend to believe the average consumer is WAY MORE engaged than he actually is.

We represent such a tiny fraction of the BMW buying public that the VAST majority of BMW CAs don't even realize forums like this exist. We are not even on their radar as potential customers.
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      01-14-2016, 10:01 PM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08njSTEP
The evidence is clear through the posts here. People consider warranty and maintenance as interchangeable. They are NOT, but are seen as the same. This is the very reason why it was a bad move. So the average(non M) buyer is loosing an oil change or 2 and some wipers, but believes that the larger(warranty) items will/might not be covered. That is bad for the brand. A very small cost cutting has the effect of putting doubt in the consumer's mind. That is penny wise, pound foolish. The smarter move would have left the term and merely removed brakes and clutch. Cost saved without damaging reputation. I hope the executive that came up with this finds a new position at VW ag.
This is a weak argument. Every car comes with a warranty. Very few include maintenance.
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      01-15-2016, 08:05 AM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08njSTEP View Post
The evidence is clear through the posts here. People consider warranty and maintenance as interchangeable. They are NOT, but are seen as the same. This is the very reason why it was a bad move. So the average(non M) buyer is loosing an oil change or 2 and some wipers, but believes that the larger(warranty) items will/might not be covered. That is bad for the brand. A very small cost cutting has the effect of putting doubt in the consumer's mind. That is penny wise, pound foolish. The smarter move would have left the term and merely removed brakes and clutch. Cost saved without damaging reputation. I hope the executive that came up with this finds a new position at VW ag.
I don't think most see warranty and maintenance as interchangeable and if they do, when they find out what the warranty coverage is and it hasn't changed, how will they then realize that the maintenance coverage is something different and is somewhat less than it used to be (but reality is better than everyone else's)?

Basically the average consumer isn't here but goes to his BMW dealers and asks what the warranty is, the dealer tells him and it is very similar to everyone else's. I don't see this uneducated consumer then asking what the maintenance coverage is, confusing it with the warranty, thinking this maintenance is lower than everyone else's and then deciding to not buy a BMW.

Reality is BMW decided lower coverage will increase overall profits and some here think it is the wrong decision (because they don't like to lose what they used to get). Time will tell.
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      01-15-2016, 08:19 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
My last two loaners were a Subaru Forester and a Volvo C30. Not exactly "interesting". Could not wait to return the Forester, what a pig!
We only get BMWs or Mini's as loaners. I've been pretty lucky to have driven nearly the whole inventory. My most pleasant surprise was a 7-Series with the M package. I was stunned at how well it performed.

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      01-15-2016, 08:37 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Trust me. The average BMW buyer barely knows that the car comes with included maintenance. They don't really process that until the day they take delivery. I can imagine a fair number of them who would just do their own maintenance if someone at the dealership didn't specifically point out to them that maintenance is included.

One thing about forums like this is that members tend to believe the average consumer is WAY MORE engaged than he actually is.

We represent such a tiny fraction of the BMW buying public that the VAST majority of BMW CAs don't even realize forums like this exist. We are not even on their radar as potential customers.
I respectfully disagree with this statement.

I am the hardcore enthusiast among my family and acquaintances. You should hear the whinging and moaning that they engage in when the maintenance and warranty's are up. This includes a people that can MORE THAN AFFORD the upkeep and repairs. They are KEENLY AWARE of this. Additionally, I've spent enough time at the dealership to hear the shock and horror of people when they get the bill for their first out of plan maintenance. It typically isn't pretty.

Your final statement is absolutely correct...we are not the average owners in any respect. The general public, especially those who are transitioning from Honda's, entry level Lexus/Toyota's, etc. into their first BMW factor this into their decision to move upmarket.

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      01-15-2016, 09:39 AM   #593
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Read all 600 posts and you will see warranty and maintenance used together. My post only referenced this thread. I would dare say that the posters here are more informed than average, yet a large number confuse a water pump failure as a maintenance issue. The general public is much more likely to make this error. This is about perception not reality. Reputation takes a long time to build and a short time to destroy.
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      01-15-2016, 03:16 PM   #594
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At least until recently, BMW very much used no-cost maintenance in their branding. It was all over the commercials and print ads.
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