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      11-07-2014, 01:30 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I'm with you. While the 3-Series still might be more dynamic in terms of driving than the A4 and C-Class, it isn't that much ahead of those two with the F30 - enough to pick it over the new C-Class.


Ive owned a B8 A4 quattro with sport pack. and I have an f30 m-sport right now.

the f30 is A LOT more dynamic than that audi. Now the new C class especially the RWD variant I haven't driven , but I would agree with you on that. if the new C class drives anything like the w204 , the 3 series is going to have to step it up, or they are going to have to put some new stuff in it during the LCI.

I think with the C class, the interior can look amazing if you option it up. But I know BMW allows things like leather dash , LED headlights, etc on the 4 series now , so if they bring those down to the 3 series and maybe add some more expensive touches to the center console (like say piano black face liek the M3 gets) it could still probably be very competitive. No doubt BMW is working on some sort of open pore wood, just like mercedes has (if anything BMW with the "modern" line in the 2012 F30, already sort of had a new style wood...)
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      11-07-2014, 01:31 PM   #178
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M2 = BMW's Swan Song?

So with the 3's becoming more and more bloated, and the future 1's and 2's going FWD, is the upcoming M2 going to be BMW's swan song for those who enjoy driving?

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      11-07-2014, 01:32 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crawfordbay
So with the 3's becoming more and more bloated, and the future 1's and 2's going FWD, is the upcoming M2 going to be BMW's swan song for those who enjoy driving?

The 2 series fate of FWD or RWD has not been decided yet
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      11-07-2014, 01:41 PM   #180
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Who cares if it's RWD or FWD on the 1 and 2 series?
Do you always think about which wheels will be rotating before getting into a car?
If you do, you need to get a life.. fast.
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      11-07-2014, 01:43 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble
Who cares if it's RWD or FWD on the 1 and 2 series?
Do you always think about which wheels will be rotating before getting into a car?
If you do, you need to get a life.. fast.
If anything other than 4 wheels are rotating then you need a mechanic rather than a life
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      11-07-2014, 01:50 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble View Post
Who cares if it's RWD or FWD on the 1 and 2 series?
Do you always think about which wheels will be rotating before getting into a car?
If you do, you need to get a life.. fast.
Not always, but sometimes it can really matter!
Try to spend a weekend on driving around a track on a frozen lake, and you will definitely notice the difference.

And why does it matter on the 1-series? Because the other BMW models are too large and heavy to even be considered.
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      11-07-2014, 01:56 PM   #183
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I wonder how much less an fwd car costs to produce than a rwd one. Other than costs, what advantage would fwd have?
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      11-07-2014, 02:02 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by StealYourFace View Post
I wonder how much less an fwd car costs to produce than a rwd one. Other than costs, what advantage would fwd have?
It takes up less space inside the car, wastes less energy in the driveline, has lower mass and intertia. It has a slight traction advantage in very slippery conditions, is more stable when sliding sideways, and can get unstuck easier by steering the driven wheels from side to side.

Other than that, RWD is pretty much superior at everything.
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      11-07-2014, 02:15 PM   #185
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Did BMW run out of numbers? This should be a 0 Series or -1 Series.

There's already a 1 Series RWD (hatchback) and a 2 Series RWD (Coupe).

It's evident that BMW unlike Audi didn't have an inferior number for a new car.

Is BMW proud to introduce the understeer on throttle era? we all agree it makes sense from a cost of production perspective, but I doubt they will be proud of this car that goes against their RWD philosophy. A dangerous move, specially since all the people involved in it's creation, I don't expect them to be very motivated about this car...

Last edited by Manbnda; 11-07-2014 at 02:32 PM..
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      11-07-2014, 02:38 PM   #186
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It will be a crime if they call this a 1 series. The 1M should not be associated with this car. Nor should the E82 135i or 128i. What will BMW do next to further insult it's enthusiast customers?
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      11-07-2014, 02:46 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manbnda
Did BMW run out of numbers? This should be a 0 Series or -1 Series.

There's already a 1 Series RWD (hatchback) and a 2 Series RWD (Coupe).

It's evident that BMW unlike Audi didn't have an inferior number for a new car.

Is BMW proud to introduce the understeer on throttle era? we all agree it makes sense from a cost of production perspective, but I doubt they will be proud of this car that goes against their RWD philosophy. A dangerous move, specially since all the people involved in it's creation, I don't expect them to be very motivated about this car...
Whether or not they moved 1 series to FWD they should do two things IMO

A) keep the M135i in RWD as nothing else is like it on the market (the last thing similar was Clio V6 which was downright dangerous), this wouldn't be hard to do if they keep the 2 series RWD on the UKL platform, just change the body.
B) introduce a mini size Zero series to compete with A1 and forthcoming small Merc; the 'we can't do it.. cannibalising sales' argument doesn't work here because the "mini" countryman is as big as the 1 series and taller than my 3er.
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      11-07-2014, 02:50 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble
Who cares if it's RWD or FWD on the 1 and 2 series?
Do you always think about which wheels will be rotating before getting into a car?
If you do, you need to get a life.. fast.
You can't be serious. There's something very appealing about a small, rwd coupe or sedan with fully defeatable traction control. Our 135i was only a limited slip away from being a great car, something they fixed (plus a lot more) with the 1M.

The ATS is a drivetrain away from being better all around than the F3x, once the IS250 gets a turbo four it will likely be a better all around package than the 328i and the C400 and Jag XE also likely offer a better experience for many owners. BMW is giving up on the folks that got them here. They're still making plenty of money though, so it likely doesn't matter.

Now if Porsche will just build a small sedan with three pedals...
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      11-07-2014, 02:50 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawfordbay
So with the 3's becoming more and more bloated, and the future 1's and 2's going FWD, is the upcoming M2 going to be BMW's swan song for those who enjoy driving?

The 2 series fate of FWD or RWD has not been decided yet
it has. its fwd next gen. bet on it
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      11-07-2014, 02:52 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawfordbay
So with the 3's becoming more and more bloated, and the future 1's and 2's going FWD, is the upcoming M2 going to be BMW's swan song for those who enjoy driving?

The 2 series fate of FWD or RWD has not been decided yet
it has. its fwd next gen. bet on it
Official source? Last post from admin/Scott (can't remember which) stated only 1 series had been confirmed to date and UKL was configurable to RWD.
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      11-07-2014, 02:54 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble
Who cares if it's RWD or FWD on the 1 and 2 series?
Do you always think about which wheels will be rotating before getting into a car?
If you do, you need to get a life.. fast.
You can't be serious. There's something very appealing about a small, rwd coupe or sedan with fully defeatable traction control. Our 135i was only a limited slip away from being a great car, something they fixed (plus a lot more) with the 1M.

The ATS is a drivetrain away from being better all around than the F3x, once the IS250 gets a turbo four it will likely be a better all around package than the 328i and the C400 and Jag XE also likely offer a better experience for many owners. BMW is giving up on the folks that got them here. They're still making plenty of money though, so it likely doesn't matter.

Now if Porsche will just build a small sedan with three pedals...
you said it. thats why I went to porsche for my new car and started a collection of soon to be rarities. first was a 72 E9 csi now a z4M coup (all NA Straight 6 rwd as we know) and next I got my eye on a V10 eheh. all good things must come to end right? not on autotrader.
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      11-07-2014, 03:13 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Interesting update - UKL is a modular chassis and can be adapted/subtracted as FWD or RWD.

Full decision on the 2er is not final yet (full decision will be taken by the end of the year) and can use the UKL chassis but can adapted for RWD. (BMW M are fighting for RWD because the M2 is apparently even more outstanding than the 1er M Coupe)

What the strategy aims to show is a split between the 1er and 2er , but vehicles that cannot compromise on space and versatility will be addressed via FWD namely the 1er , X1 , X2 and Active/Gran Tourers.
This is the 1er Sedan but the strategy involves a 2er Gran Coupe. So that compact entry lines will mirror the upper segments in the BMW portfolio.

The G chassis or 35Up is too expensive to use for smaller compact cars and therefore starts with the 3er or in the case of the first entry model the G01 X3.

This the 1er Sedan and when I saw it today along with the Discovery Sport-ish X1 X-Sport.
First thing immediately is you get E46 Goose-pimples. It is that similar in profile. But the detail is modern BMW, the headlights connect to the grille similar to the 1er Render but to distinguish sedan from hatch there is a flick at the inner edge close to the grille.
The rear lights are in the typical L shape but more angular in shape.
The model was a styling model so no interior.
But I seen a preview of the new interior which includes extra surfaces and additional (as optional) passenger display interface. The ergonomics are as evolutionary as today's car with controls placed high for easy reach.

The X1 X-Sport (extended X1) is having an "Outdoor" version prepared that adds thicker wheel arches and more cladding to the underbody with a slight raise in suspension height. The X1Xsport is exclusively xDrive and a seven seater. There will be base models what with X line etc. it brings back a more utilityappearance like the first generation X3 which surprisingly some customers missed on the LCi because it was far more durable and could handle stone chips better than the painted surface updates.
Originally intended for China exclusively. This model will now be available in all key markets.
Just to re-quote this...
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      11-07-2014, 03:18 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawfordbay
So with the 3's becoming more and more bloated, and the future 1's and 2's going FWD, is the upcoming M2 going to be BMW's swan song for those who enjoy driving?

The 2 series fate of FWD or RWD has not been decided yet
it has. its fwd next gen. bet on it
Official source? Last post from admin/Scott (can't remember which) stated only 1 series had been confirmed to date and UKL was configurable to RWD.
Actually not confirming whether the 2er will remain RWD is a good way to ensure you sell lots of them, which might then lead to remaining RWD due to volume of sales... Maybe it's best to be in the dark and just buy as many 2ers as possible
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      11-07-2014, 03:41 PM   #194
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The 1 serie sedan looks like a 2AT inside.
Loved the I3 in that car, great sporty sound.
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      11-07-2014, 06:01 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
You can't be serious. There's something very appealing about a small, rwd coupe or sedan with fully defeatable traction control. Our 135i was only a limited slip away from being a great car, something they fixed (plus a lot more) with the 1M.

The ATS is a drivetrain away from being better all around than the F3x, once the IS250 gets a turbo four it will likely be a better all around package than the 328i and the C400 and Jag XE also likely offer a better experience for many owners. BMW is giving up on the folks that got them here. They're still making plenty of money though, so it likely doesn't matter.

Now if Porsche will just build a small sedan with three pedals...
I would disagree...chassis yes the ATS is nimble and fun but drivetrain sucks...that crappy four banger is no where near the refinement of the N20 engine. I am sure Lexus will put a nice smooth four banger in the IS250 but to me...something still feels isolated about the new IS'......
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      11-07-2014, 08:33 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul View Post
it has. its fwd next gen. bet on it
So are you willing to come here and eat crow if its RWD?
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      11-07-2014, 09:38 PM   #197
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I notice in the interior shots, there is no longer a slot for a CD player. About time
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      11-07-2014, 10:27 PM   #198
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Jesus, this old song and dance (or whining and crying) again?

Anyone that thinks a FWD BMW is not going to be fun to drive needs to drive a Mini Cooper S, specifically at an Autocross event. They are crazy fast and crazy good!

Sure the proportions will be different, but I'd bet money that it will be very entertaining to drive.

And if you absolutely must have this particular vehicle and want the rear wheels to do something, then just get an x-drive.

I wonder how many of you all complaining are driving cars with automatic (auto tragic) transmissions?
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