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      09-05-2014, 08:35 AM   #89
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      09-05-2014, 09:03 AM   #90
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I know nobody wants to believe it, but we (car enthusiasts) are a very small market for any car company. Catering to us does not make the company money. Sure, sometimes they might make niche products for us to keep us happy, but in the grand scheme of things, we don't really matter.

I personally feel that AMG has gone awd not because of improved performance, but because it makes it easier to drive for the regular consumer. Being a "driver's car" doesn't rake in the big bucks. Another good example is the new Lambo (sorry, I forgot what it's called). All reviews have said that it now understeers more and is easier to drive. Why? Because that's where the money is.
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      09-05-2014, 09:21 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
Lol, BMW has pretty much gone back on everything they've said they wouldn't do.

AWD, FWD, M7, turbos, M SUVs etc etc.

Well, cash rules everything around me.
There is no M7, and that is the one I'd like most.
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      09-05-2014, 09:37 AM   #92
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I just don't see a market for the US at least...the 228i starts at $32,100 and ok if you want a sedan de 320i starts at $32,800 i think...so my question is how much are they going to charge for the new 1 series sedan? audi a3 starts at 30k and thats a 1.8T engine but the A4 starts at 35.5k thats almost a 6k difference but at BMW it's barely going to be 2-3000 are people really going to buy a 1 series FWD when they know that for 2-3k more they can get a bigger 3 series or a sportier 2 series? Doesn't make any sense to me unless this is going to be offered in Europe where the 1 series hatch starts around 18k pounds and the two series 24k pounds but I dont see a market in the US for the car
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      09-05-2014, 09:38 AM   #93
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I just think it's sad that the M2 will be the last small rear wheel drive performance car BMW ever makes again. The three gets larger and larger. It is NOT a small car anymore and the same is, of course, true of the M3/4 and the 5/6. Grab a used 1/2 or e9x while you can or place that M2 order. A FWD storm is a comin' and after it hits things will never be the same.
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      09-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #94
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It really saddens me to see the direction that BMW has taken. I understand the idea of wanting to be a profitable company with a strong foothold in the market, I really do. But there's a point where expansion turns into brand dilution, and BMW has been flirting with that line for a while now.

BMW made their name as a car for car people. When you bought a BMW, you were getting a well-built vehicle with a good engine that sent the power to the rear wheels, a steering wheel that connected you to the road, and handling that did what you wanted. What made a BMW special was that unquantifiable aspect of bonding between the driver and the vehicle. Yeah, the luxury was there, the tech was there, and the styling produced lovely vehicles like the E39 and the E38. But you could get luxury and technology and looks from the competitors too. It was the bundle of those things, plus the bond with the driver that made the car truly special.

Unfortunately, we've seen these things dissolve slowly over the years as BMW has lost its focus. We've seen sport sedans fall into the shadow of five different crossover models. We've seen steering feel fade away and driver involvement fade with it. We've seen quality control slip, poorly handled defects and recalls, and production leaving Germany in favor of Mexico. Now, we see rear wheel drive, a feature touted by BMW as the only acceptable option, yield the floor to front wheel drive. We're seeing BMWs that lack the things that made them BMWs.

Markets change, consumers change, and technology changes; we know that. Companies are forced to adapt and make tough choices in order to remain competitive. Those tough choices can mean making major changes to what you sell and selling something new.

It's just too bad that BMW decided to sell their soul in the process.
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      09-05-2014, 09:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
I know nobody wants to believe it, but we (car enthusiasts) are a very small market for any car company. Catering to us does not make the company money. Sure, sometimes they might make niche products for us to keep us happy, but in the grand scheme of things, we don't really matter.

I personally feel that AMG has gone awd not because of improved performance, but because it makes it easier to drive for the regular consumer. Being a "driver's car" doesn't rake in the big bucks. Another good example is the new Lambo (sorry, I forgot what it's called). All reviews have said that it now understeers more and is easier to drive. Why? Because that's where the money is.
+1

I can't fault BMW for being successful or chasing profits, but it is disappointing that the "ultimate driving machine" isn't anymore. Fat, heavy, and bloated with technology and the newest infotainment, but that's what sells cars now. Not the actual driving experience.
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      09-05-2014, 09:52 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
I know nobody wants to believe it, but we (car enthusiasts) are a very small market for any car company. Catering to us does not make the company money. Sure, sometimes they might make niche products for us to keep us happy, but in the grand scheme of things, we don't really matter.
BMW do not sell a very significant share of their cars to enthusiasts, but how many additional sales can an enthusiast generate? Maybe we talk a lot of additional non enthusiasts into buying BMWs as well as buying our own. We provide a lot of free marketing.
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      09-05-2014, 10:05 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
I just think it's sad that the M2 will be the last small rear wheel drive performance car BMW ever makes again. The three gets larger and larger. It is NOT a small car anymore and the same is, of course, true of the M3/4 and the 5/6. Grab a used 1/2 or e9x while you can or place that M2 order. A FWD storm is a comin' and after it hits things will never be the same.
The three series will also be getting lighter and lighter...Plus the Z3, and Z5 will be small lightweight rwd cars.
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      09-05-2014, 10:10 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs4444
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
I just think it's sad that the M2 will be the last small rear wheel drive performance car BMW ever makes again. The three gets larger and larger. It is NOT a small car anymore and the same is, of course, true of the M3/4 and the 5/6. Grab a used 1/2 or e9x while you can or place that M2 order. A FWD storm is a comin' and after it hits things will never be the same.
The three series will also be getting lighter and lighter...Plus the Z3, and Z5 will be small lightweight rwd cars.
I'll believe it when I see it. The F30 certainly didn't deliver on its weight loss promises and even so it is much larger than a e46 and definitely drives and feels larger than the e90s I have owned.

And most don't want a roadster. I mean I'm glad BMW is not making their roadsters FWD as well, but these are not coupes or sedans - high volume models.

So my point still stands - no more small rear wheel drive cars from BMW ever again. Buy them up while you can.
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      09-05-2014, 10:24 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But the F20/21 is the only hatchback in the market with RWD. That means that everybody who wants to buy that type of car, has to buy the BMW. I think there are quite a few of us in total. If they care more about cost or space or looks, they will buy something else anyway, like a Golf. How will BMW justify a premium selling price without the RWD?
They can justify the premium by the badge, quality, refinement etc.
After owning multiple golfs over the years my only complaint was the lack of refinement i.e. road noise. This is something the F20 does better and therefore makes it less stressful to drive. That is enough to make me buy an F20 over a golf.
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      09-05-2014, 10:51 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
How will BMW justify a premium selling price without the RWD?
The same way Audi and Mercedes do.
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      09-05-2014, 12:06 PM   #101
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//start rant

FWD on a BMW??? Gross! Even if it's on an entry-level car, it still dilutes the brand culture.

On top of it all, there are many companies out there that can do FWD much better because they have been doing it for so long. VW GTI is a great example. Spin it any way you want but the move to FWD is based on pure cost-cutting so don't give me any "handling dynamics" BS.

I guess in a world where Mercedes has a FWD sedan, anything is possible...

//end rant
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      09-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I believe it is wrong to think choosing xDrive will negate the native FWD platform's handling flaws. The engine is still going to be in a horizontally opposed configuration... Probably hanging in front of the front axle no less. F/R weight distribution is not going to approach a native RWD platform.
Very true, and anyone who has driven an A4 Quattro back to back with a 3er xDrive will agree.
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      09-05-2014, 12:24 PM   #103
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Well I won't be buying a FWD M235i... And if the 3 series gets much bigger I probably won't be buying one of those either.

In my view keep your USPs and keep your customers happy. I cannot see any reason why BMW cannot offer all three drive options on their small sports coupes and hatchbacks except to make more profit at the expense of loyal customers. Why not just build a zero series and leave the F2X class alone.

If BMW want to become Ford, VW or Vauxhall go ahead but you cannot become more premium by blending in more.
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      09-05-2014, 12:32 PM   #104
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I'm on my second 1er and I'd have loved my next one to be more of the same but in sedan form.

Wrong-wheel drive? No thanks, you can keep it. Maybe one more F20 for me and that's the end...
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      09-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDirty
I'm on my second 1er and I'd have loved my next one to be more of the same but in sedan form.

Wrong-wheel drive? No thanks, you can keep it. Maybe one more F20 for me and that's the end...
Exactly.

To be totally stereotypical and perhaps offensive: generally anyone who reads anything about cars and has any interest in driving buys a BMW for 5050 weight with RWD, they buy Audi if interior is more important or they buy Mercedes if they are retiring/want comfort.
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      09-05-2014, 01:01 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Exactly.

To be totally stereotypical and perhaps offensive: generally anyone who reads anything about cars and has any interest in driving buys a BMW for 5050 weight with RWD, they buy Audi if interior is more important or they buy Mercedes if they are retiring/want comfort.
As the old saying goes (but maybe not relevant for much longer!) you take you jacket off to drive a BMW and leave it on to drive a Benz
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      09-05-2014, 01:42 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Exactly.

To be totally stereotypical and perhaps offensive: generally anyone who reads anything about cars and has any interest in driving buys a BMW for 5050 weight with RWD, they buy Audi if interior is more important or they buy Mercedes if they are retiring/want comfort.
As the old saying goes (but maybe not relevant for much longer!) you take you jacket off to drive a BMW and leave it on to drive a Benz
Hahahahahaha
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      09-05-2014, 02:29 PM   #108
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Pretty interesting too that the top of the line engine tops out at 4 cylinders. What is the starting cylinder count....2?

In 10 years or so...
"Hey kids, you think you got a big 0.75L one-cylinder in that 385i there don't you?
Let me tell you about the N20 back in my day with 4 cylinders!!! That was something. When you're ready, I might even tell you about the M54 I had with a whopping 3.0L "
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      09-05-2014, 04:35 PM   #109
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Hi forum,

beside not being a FWD fan myself the Erlkönig photos of the F52 look very promising to me. The front overhang is a little bit too long and the back seems to be a little bit too high but overall I like the shape of the car already.
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      09-05-2014, 05:20 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB_123_99
Pretty interesting too that the top of the line engine tops out at 4 cylinders. What is the starting cylinder count....2?

In 10 years or so...
"Hey kids, you think you got a big 0.75L one-cylinder in that 385i there don't you?
Let me tell you about the N20 back in my day with 4 cylinders!!! That was something. When you're ready, I might even tell you about the M54 I had with a whopping 3.0L "
Yeah and remember the days when you could steer and control the car yourself instead of Google
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