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      01-07-2020, 12:45 AM   #1
MR_M2
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Fun > Traction?

I have about 13k miles on my OG and the Michelin PSS that the car came with has about 6/32 tread left. The car is now way more fun than it used to be when the tires were new. It has just enough grip to stop you from wrapping the tree and low enough where every turn feels like an occasion - it is just magical; I wish the traction control was tuned like this.

Here is my dilemma: I was unlucky enough to get a nail near the sidewall and it seems one of the tires cannot be saved. I was thinking to upgrade to PS4S 255/35F and 285/35R. I feel this might make the car super sticky, which would be amazing in the canyons and an occasional track day, whilst killing the daily "fun".
Should I go with star rated tires instead assuming that bmw engineers tuned the car with a very specific tire and changing that recipe may leave a bad taste?


Is anyone on the same boat?

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      01-07-2020, 04:26 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_M2 View Post
I have about 13k miles on my OG and the Michelin PSS that the car came with has about 6/32 tread left. The car is now way more fun than it used to be when the tires were new. It has just enough grip to stop you from wrapping the tree and low enough where every turn feels like an occasion - it is just magical; I wish the traction control was tuned like this.
Here is my dilemma: I was unlucky enough to get a nail near the sidewall and it seems one of the tires cannot be saved. I was thinking to upgrade to PS4S 255/35F and 285/35R. I feel this might make the car super sticky, which would be amazing in the canyons and an occasional track day, whilst killing the daily "fun".
Should I go with star rated tires instead assuming that bmw engineers tuned the car with a very specific tire and changing that recipe may leave a bad taste?
Is anyone on the same boat?
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[VIDEO]
Sound like you need cheaper/worse grip tires in the OEM sizes. More tire will make the cars limits be further away so I dont think you want to go any bigger. 255/285 should make the car more neutral and less tail happy as you have added proportionally more rubber to the rear.
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      01-07-2020, 01:07 PM   #3
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If it's easily accessible oversteer you're after I'd stick 235s on all 4 corners and avoid sticky tires like the PS4.

It would be easy to light up the 235s and you turn the balance more towards oversteer by going square.

For the track though the 255/285 combo in sticky rubber is probably ideal though. It would result in good lap times for sure.
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      01-07-2020, 05:16 PM   #4
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I do worry as was intending to go PS4S when my stock MPSS run out.

I know firsthand how grippy the PS4S which BMW didn't time the car to.

I read an article almost saying the PS4S can be too grippy, especially in a RWD car where fun/pleasure comes from brief moments of controlled lost traction.

Anyone on an OG M2 with stock tyre sizes on PS4S able to chime in?
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      01-07-2020, 05:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
I do worry as was intending to go PS4S when my stock MPSS run out.

I know firsthand how grippy the PS4S which BMW didn't time the car to.

I read an article almost saying the PS4S can be too grippy, especially in a RWD car where fun/pleasure comes from brief moments of controlled lost traction.

Anyone on an OG M2 with stock tyre sizes on PS4S able to chime in?
Still fun on 255/275 PS4S

More fun on worn out 245/265 PS4S.
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      01-07-2020, 07:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
If it's easily accessible oversteer you're after I'd stick 235s on all 4 corners and avoid sticky tires like the PS4.
True, but it would end up looking like an oversized brz
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      01-07-2020, 08:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
I do worry as was intending to go PS4S when my stock MPSS run out.

I know firsthand how grippy the PS4S which BMW didn't time the car to.

I read an article almost saying the PS4S can be too grippy, especially in a RWD car where fun/pleasure comes from brief moments of controlled lost traction.

Anyone on an OG M2 with stock tyre sizes on PS4S able to chime in?
When I got down to the wear bars on my stock Contis I would literally drift taking 10mph turns off stoplights. So much fun but I'd get wheel spin and traction lights when flooring it in a straight line which wasn't great and the car was basically undrivable in the rain. Switched to PS4S (in OEM sizes) and there is so much grip in comparison to the worn-out tires that it felt like a completely different car when I drove it after the switch. I wouldn't say the PS4S have too much grip but I have yet to get the tail to kick out around a turn in town. You can call this good and bad in the sense that the car feels more precise, but the ability to fishtail around turns at low speed in the dry is gone and probably won't come back until I wear the rears out a bit. I think you'd have that "problem" with any new tire though and you'd have to break them in a little to be able to slide with little to no effort. I can't compare the PSS to the PS4S as I had Contis but I'm overall very happy I made the switch even if some of the magic is gone. The snap oversteer I'd get breaking loose with the Contis felt super dangerous and now I don't worry about it at all.
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      01-08-2020, 09:31 AM   #8
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I'm very much in agreement that less traction/grip is always more fun in a rear wheel drive car. I had a GT86 which was absolutely hilarious fun on AD08R tyres as the rears approached the end of their useful life. I could subtly slide it around almost anywhere without fear of travelling at warp speed and having an accident if it went wrong.

I've been wondering what tyres to fit to the M2 when my OE MPSS are worn out. I think a track biased tyre may be the way to go as I do the occasional trackday in the car so need something with a stiff sidewall that won't get all gooey when its hot!

Federal 595 RS-Pro and AD08RS are currently top of the list.
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      01-08-2020, 10:41 AM   #9
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For sure this car is more fun when there is less traction, and to be honest, I've considered buying some HTRZ's @ $352 for the rear pair and have at it, but it's just not my style. I haven't even modded the car because I don't use the power that it already has, so there really isn't any point. But yeah, it'd be fun.
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      01-08-2020, 01:30 PM   #10
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I think this is the exact reason why a Miata comes with small, not-so-grippy rubber as OEM.

Personally, I think more grip is more fun. Drifting is only really fun if you're not on the street and you don't mind wasting your tires.
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      01-08-2020, 01:33 PM   #11
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I would love MORE traction. Sure sliding around is fun, but 2nd gear is almost useless in cooler weather. Had 0 traction pretty much the entire the way up on onramp the other night trying to get around someone. When the stock set of tires is gone, I'll be upping the size. 285 in the rear should do the trick.
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      01-08-2020, 06:12 PM   #12
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Some interesting points all valid.

I also don't know if I'll go stage two at some point and may want a bit more tyre then.

But I'm only willing to go +1cm 255/275 PS4S.
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      01-09-2020, 05:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mee2 View Post
I'm very much in agreement that less traction/grip is always more fun in a rear wheel drive car. I had a GT86 which was absolutely hilarious fun on AD08R tyres as the rears approached the end of their useful life. I could subtly slide it around almost anywhere without fear of travelling at warp speed and having an accident if it went wrong.

I've been wondering what tyres to fit to the M2 when my OE MPSS are worn out. I think a track biased tyre may be the way to go as I do the occasional trackday in the car so need something with a stiff sidewall that won't get all gooey when its hot!

Federal 595 RS-Pro and AD08RS are currently top of the list.
To add to my previous comment I will probably increase the front size to 255/35/19 and retain the stock rear size at 265/35/19 whatever tyres I choose. Hopefully this will tip the balance of the car forwards a little more; especially when combined with my 2.5deg of front camber.

I know the car has plenty of torque to neutralise the chassis but I do feel that the stock setup encourages the car to push and understeer a little on turn-in in almost all weathers. I experienced the same thing on track in the dry, the rears just have too much grip when trying to get the car to rotate with the throttle closed on turn-in!
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      01-09-2020, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
I would love MORE traction. Sure sliding around is fun, but 2nd gear is almost useless in cooler weather. Had 0 traction pretty much the entire the way up on onramp the other night trying to get around someone. When the stock set of tires is gone, I'll be upping the size. 285 in the rear should do the trick.
You won't be disappointed withe the 285s in the rear

I've gone PSS4 in 245 and 285 in the rear, however on 20" and 9,5 in front and 11" rear rims...and moore than happy
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      01-09-2020, 10:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mee2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mee2 View Post
I'm very much in agreement that less traction/grip is always more fun in a rear wheel drive car. I had a GT86 which was absolutely hilarious fun on AD08R tyres as the rears approached the end of their useful life. I could subtly slide it around almost anywhere without fear of travelling at warp speed and having an accident if it went wrong.

I've been wondering what tyres to fit to the M2 when my OE MPSS are worn out. I think a track biased tyre may be the way to go as I do the occasional trackday in the car so need something with a stiff sidewall that won't get all gooey when its hot!

Federal 595 RS-Pro and AD08RS are currently top of the list.
To add to my previous comment I will probably increase the front size to 255/35/19 and retain the stock rear size at 265/35/19 whatever tyres I choose. Hopefully this will tip the balance of the car forwards a little more; especially when combined with my 2.5deg of front camber.

I know the car has plenty of torque to neutralise the chassis but I do feel that the stock setup encourages the car to push and understeer a little on turn-in in almost all weathers. I experienced the same thing on track in the dry, the rears just have too much grip when trying to get the car to rotate with the throttle closed on turn-in!
You can fix this issue with adjustments to the tire pressure. Here are some thoughts for you: first, try the same tire pressure front and rear for street use rather than the recommended staggered tire pressure which runs more tire pressure in the rear. For track use I have a staggered set of 245/40 front and 265/40 on the rear on 18" wheels. For track use I run 2 pounds higher tire pressure in the front tires vs. the rear. I don't have camber plates and my track tires wear pretty evenly. I also have a staggered (245/40 front and 264/40 rear) winter setup on 18"wheels.
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      01-10-2020, 05:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
You can fix this issue with adjustments to the tire pressure. Here are some thoughts for you: first, try the same tire pressure front and rear for street use rather than the recommended staggered tire pressure which runs more tire pressure in the rear. For track use I have a staggered set of 245/40 front and 265/40 on the rear on 18" wheels. For track use I run 2 pounds higher tire pressure in the front tires vs. the rear. I don't have camber plates and my track tires wear pretty evenly. I also have a staggered (245/40 front and 264/40 rear) winter setup on 18"wheels.
Rich,

What TP's are using F&R

track 18"
winter 18"

TIA,

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      01-10-2020, 05:45 AM   #17
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OP,

I have an OG M2 (2017) and am on my 2nd set of MP4S, stock tire sizes and stock wheels.

When new / with less than 5k miles on the MP4S, breaking traction was kinda hard but not impossible with some extra throttle. The issue was MDM would cut the throttle too much. Still doable on those fun 90 degree kick out turns, but kinda restrictive.

My car does have some extra torque over stock, not sure if yours is stock or not, so it may not make the same difference but I have a suggestion that could help.

Recently (November) I took my M2 in for some warranty work which resulted in a software update; there's a big thread somewhere on this forum about this update.

One of the changes is how MDM functions - it allows a lot more wheelspin under acceleration. My first slow "fun" turn after the update was a lot more back-end kick out than I recall prior to the update by a mile! (Which I wasn't expecting so that was fun!)

The issue that required the update was a 6MT software issue which would cause the car to stall with a lunge forward as if you let the clutch out without giving gas, but it actually occurs while clutch pedal is fully depressed and car is idling, such as at a red light. BMW has a bulletin on this issue and the fix is the software update.

That issue only happened once on my car, and wasn't reproducible but they did the update anyway.

Beyond that, mods that increase low end torque are the answer to breaking traction

Or just buy slightly used tires instead of new ones.

Also +1 for the tire pressure mention above. Slightly higher pressures will be more condusive to lower grip, while lower pressure helps with better grip.
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      01-10-2020, 04:15 PM   #18
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Winter - stone cold pressure is 34 PSI FRONT AND REAR. In winter driving I generally pick up 2-3 psi when the tires warm up.

TRACK - stone cold is 30 front 28 rear. The tires pick up about 8 psi after a few laps on the track. Sometimes I start at 28 front 26 rear on really hot days. I can't always get away with this because the nannies kick in if the tire pressure is too low to begin with.

Again - winter tires are a square setup and the track ties and wheels are staggered. Both sets are 18" compared to the staggered 19's for summer OEMs.
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      01-10-2020, 05:08 PM   #19
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Had a look on camskill a UK based tyre site and 275/45 R19 PS4S is cheaper than the 265?!

Any idea why? I'm talking 13 per tyre for a BIGGER tyre.

I'm due a software update soon.

Have to say breaking traction is fun, even if I wonder what it would be like if all the power went down, would I actually feel like I'm going any faster?

Worry that 275 PS4S on the back with stock tune is too much grip?!
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      01-11-2020, 12:36 AM   #20
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Update:

I went with 255/35 285/35. So far very happy with the tires. Tested them with a hard acceleration at 50F (tire), damp road, and I couldn't break traction loose in 2nd gear (sport+). MPSS would have no trouble spinning even when they were new under similar conditions.

Ride quality is way better and it feels like I got new coilovers instead

I will definitely miss the feeling of breaking traction on a whim, though.
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      01-12-2020, 11:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
I think this is the exact reason why a Miata comes with small, not-so-grippy rubber as OEM.

Personally, I think more grip is more fun. Drifting is only really fun if you're not on the street and you don't mind wasting your tires.
This.
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