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View Poll Results: Which would you choose?
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT) 18 20.22%
2020 Porsche 718 GT4 (6MT) 60 67.42%
Neither. Both are overpriced for what you get 11 12.36%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-04-2020, 08:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
I woke up this morning to a call from my local BMW dealer to find out that I have been awarded an allocation for the upcoming M2 CS after having placed a deposit and put my name on one of the (in)famous "lists" that dealers have for these low allocation vehicles more than a year ago. Great news, right? Except that since I have been waiting for over a year for this phone call, I got bored. Don't you hate that? So one day, I stopped into my local P Dealer and got to chatting. Was told that although unlikely, I could put my name on their "list" for a new 718 GT4 allocation. Two months ago, I got the call to come in and fill in my order sheet. So now I find myself in the unlikely position (or so I was led to believe by both dealers) of having an allocation for BOTH cars. It is not lost on me that the cars are quite a ways apart on price with the Porsche costing almost 50% more than the BMW, but I would look at value for $ rather than the actual cost as a deciding factor.

What to do? Interested in hearing some thoughts for you guys/gals. I would prefer to read opinions that have a strong base of facts to support as I am a logical thinker and try to keep the emotional quotient to a minimum, but there is a place for passion when it comes to cars, so this can be helpful as well.

I have added a poll as well for those who just want to give quick feedback.

Some add'l info:

6MT CS would cost about CAD $99K as spec'd.
6MT GT4 would cost CAD $140K as spec'd (those folks at Porsche really like to nickel and dime a guy!).
I currently own a heavily modified 6MT 2018 M2 (N55) and have been able to drive a DCT M2C (S55) (back to back on track)
I have never owned (or driven for that matter) a Porsche
This will NOT be a DD. I only drive the car on week-ends in non-winter months (Apr to Oct) with rarely a passenger and no kids so no need of a rear seat. The car is for ME.
I go to the track 1-2 times per year if my schedule permits
Go Porsche- the new GT4 will have the N/A engine and finally make the Cayman a decent car again. Discontinuing the flat 6 on the 718 gen was such a mistake. As we go towards electric- we want the best of the best engines and that 4 on the 718 base cars just isn't great.
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      01-04-2020, 08:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
This is interesting. The NA engine may make a comeback

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-adm...-was-a-mistake
Funny, a buddy who is looking to buy a Cayman just sent me a link to that article. He's not a Porsche fanboy, and has no attachment to the whole "NA6 is always better" creed, so he read the article and his reaction was, "Who in the world would, in their right mind, pay all that extra money for a NA6?"

It's fascinating to me that the headline is "Porsche admits turbo four was a mistake." But, notice that Porsche doesn't seem to have plans to put NA6 engines back into all the Cayman & Boxster trims. Instead, what Porsche plans to do is offer a VERY EXPENSIVE / HIGH END trim, potentially ABOVE the current GTS trim with the NA6, and the base and S trims will continue to have the turbo 4 engines.

So, in other words, Porsche is doing what it does best: price discrimination. Meaning, you force your customers to reveal to you their true willingness to pay, and then you charge them for every single dime you possibly can. The reason that Porsche can offer so many options in their configurator, and why although a base Cayman costs < $60k, but by the time you've included all the options you want, it's $80k, is because they use a manufacturing technique called Lean, which enables them to have incredibly flexible production and incorporate true customization. And it's through customization that customers reveal their true willingness to pay.

Their re-introduction of the NA6 engine into the Cayman & Boxster isn't them admitting any kind of mistake. It's just them taking advantage of customers showing their true colors and getting those customers to pay through the nose.

For example, I personally love the turbo-4 and prefer it to NA6. So, my willingness to pay a premium for the NA6 is $0. However, clearly, there's an enthusiast / "purist" segment with a willingness to pay premium of > $20k. So, by using price discrimination, Porsche extracts my maximum willingness to pay by offering me a turbo-4 Cayman at $60k and they extract $80k from the purist by offering the purist a NA6.

It's genius!
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      01-05-2020, 12:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Why donít YOU drive a 981 GT4 and M2C and make your own decision? Neither will be significantly different than the 718 GT4 and M2CS, respectively.

I have zero idea how anyone is looking to purchase a vehicle in the $100K bracket and driven neither? It truly sounds like the only thing that is important to you is the opinion of others. Really poor decision making process.

You can throw it back into my lap as being curt, but I am not sure how else to respond to the circumstance you present?

I extensively tested the 981 CGTS, 981 GT4, 718 CGTS, M2C and M4. One brand stood out as superior, and one model within that brand stood out as best serving my personal interests . . . and I now own it.

By no means is this meant to suggest the M2C and M4 are not great in their own rights. . . in fact, I am about to pull trigger on ownership of one of them as well. Vastly different cars intended for different purpose.

I have absolutely no interest in even considering the M2CS over any of the above models. The best version of the M2CS has already been released. . . when BMW released the M2C.

///AVM
How would you possibly know? By your own standards you have not "driven" it yet.
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      01-05-2020, 03:39 AM   #26
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Check out the existing thread in the "vs" section: M2CS vs 718 GT4
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      01-05-2020, 03:44 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I believe that most are suggesting the GT4 because it's a change of pace and not so much that it is superior. The current GT4 is not the one I'd be after as I keep seeing hints of the GT4 with the 4.0.
The current GT4 already HAS a 4.0... If you're referring to the "other" 4.0 from the GT3, Porsche has already said there's no chance of that lump (the most desirable lump they make ) finding its way into a 718 model.
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      01-05-2020, 07:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
How would you possibly know? By your own standards you have not "driven" it yet.
2-series with an S55 for $60K . . . nice.

2-series with an S55 for $80K+ . . . no thanks. No test drive required.

Loaded M4 (including ceramic brakes) for $90K . . . nice.

https://www.cogginbmw.com/new/BMW/20...4078aad049.htm

///AVM
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      01-05-2020, 08:40 AM   #29
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No decision to be made. Enjoy the GT4
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      01-05-2020, 09:09 AM   #30
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Neither or😱
...instead the M2 Comp manual gear box, sport brakes, sport seats...

Why
Best bargain right now
Most fun
Manual gear box
Polyvalent sport car
Can be easily optimized
No need to worry to damage carbon parts
Classy but not flashy
No pressure on "value collection"

And keep your extra money for tires, tracking, driving coach, road trip luxury hotels and other stuff to really enjoy the season

My advise😃

I forgot ... to enjoy the best drifts 🥳
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      01-05-2020, 09:12 AM   #31
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Owning a Porsche is typically never a bad move over another car. Look at values of the previous generation GT4 and you will lose very little, if any, money. You can’t say that about a modern BMW.

One thing for consideration would be to buy an OG M2 and a 2017 Cayman S. You can probably get both for the price of one brand new GT4.
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      01-05-2020, 09:16 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
The current GT4 already HAS a 4.0... If you're referring to the "other" 4.0 from the GT3, Porsche has already said there's no chance of that lump (the most desirable lump they make ) finding its way into a 718 model.
The GT4 is a bit underpowered. Not in same league as GT3. Plus less power than M2 CS.
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      01-05-2020, 09:22 AM   #33
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None of the above!

I don't think either choice is overpriced. If it were, nobody would buy one.

2020 M240i v. 2020 M2C, no question!

2020 Porsche 718 GT4 (6MT) v. 2018 or 2019 Carrera T (7MT), no question, either!

How many of the E36 M3 lightweights were fitted with a full roll cage and make their way onto the track (or even make it out of the garage much)? But they are cool!

I wouldn't plan to track my car, so I don't think I'd be able to appreciate the M2CS on my daily drives. (I'd pass on a sunroof for the 3rd or 4th owner who might track it - or thinks he might track it - though.)
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      01-05-2020, 09:27 AM   #34
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I vote GT4, unless you have lower back problems.
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      01-05-2020, 09:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
Owning a Porsche is typically never a bad move over another car. Look at values of the previous generation GT4 and you will lose very little, if any, money. You canít say that about a modern BMW.

One thing for consideration would be to buy an OG M2 and a 2017 Cayman S. You can probably get both for the price of one brand new GT4.
Except that this time the BMW will be in limited quantities with say 350 all being built in the year 2020 whereas the Porsche will be built in more quantities for next three years. Depreciation could be different this time.
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      01-05-2020, 09:31 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
2-series with an S55 for $60K . . . nice.

2-series with an S55 for $80K+ . . . no thanks. No test drive required.

Loaded M4 (including ceramic brakes) for $90K . . . nice.

https://www.cogginbmw.com/new/BMW/20...4078aad049.htm

///AVM
While the M4 is nice, the size of the car is important. For some including me, the M4 is too big.
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      01-05-2020, 09:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Except that this time the BMW will be in limited quantities with say 350 all being built in the year 2020 whereas the Porsche will be built in more quantities for next three years. Depreciation could be different this time.
I wouldnít bet on that.
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      01-05-2020, 09:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Neither or😱
...instead the M2 Comp manual gear box, sport brakes, sport seats...

Why
Best bargain right now
Most fun
Manual gear box
Polyvalent sport car
Can be easily optimized
No need to worry to damage carbon parts
Classy but not flashy
No pressure on "value collection"

And keep your extra money for tires, tracking, driving coach, road trip luxury hotels and other stuff to really enjoy the season

My advise😃

I forgot ... to enjoy the best drifts 🥳
That is a valid point, the M2C is pretty competitive at its price and performance point.

However, OP already has a tuned M2, so getting a M2C is repetitive.

The M2CS makes sense due to its limited nature and cosmetic changes that comes from the factory.
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      01-05-2020, 09:51 AM   #39
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OP, add a polling option for buy CS now and GT4 later.
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      01-05-2020, 10:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
I have never owned (or driven for that matter) a Porsche
OP indicates he has never even driven a Porsche. . . how in the world is GT4 even a consideration at this point?

///AVM
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      01-05-2020, 10:17 AM   #41
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I agree that I wouldn't purchase before testing something similar, but I think you can get a decent flavor through reviews. Personal experience, and firsthand reviews. Early M2 adopters purchased without test drives.
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      01-05-2020, 02:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Neither or😱
...instead the M2 Comp manual gear box, sport brakes, sport seats...

Why
Best bargain right now
Most fun
Manual gear box
Polyvalent sport car
Can be easily optimized
No need to worry to damage carbon parts
Classy but not flashy
No pressure on "value collection"

And keep your extra money for tires, tracking, driving coach, road trip luxury hotels and other stuff to really enjoy the season

My advise😃

I forgot ... to enjoy the best drifts 🥳
Sound advice, buy a regular M2 Competition, and build your own "CS"
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      01-05-2020, 02:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
OP, add a polling option for buy CS now and GT4 later.
I seem to like this choice the best. Buy the cheaper and more safer choice from a standpoint of familiarity. Then a couple of years later, buy the more expensive Porsche. By that time in say, 2022, the original poster may be interested in a GT4 RS or 911. I think the 992 911 is getting its mid-cycle refresh around 2022.
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      01-05-2020, 03:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
This is interesting. The NA engine may make a comeback

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-adm...-was-a-mistake
Funny, a buddy who is looking to buy a Cayman just sent me a link to that article. He's not a Porsche fanboy, and has no attachment to the whole "NA6 is always better" creed, so he read the article and his reaction was, "Who in the world would, in their right mind, pay all that extra money for a NA6?"

It's fascinating to me that the headline is "Porsche admits turbo four was a mistake." But, notice that Porsche doesn't seem to have plans to put NA6 engines back into all the Cayman & Boxster trims. Instead, what Porsche plans to do is offer a VERY EXPENSIVE / HIGH END trim, potentially ABOVE the current GTS trim with the NA6, and the base and S trims will continue to have the turbo 4 engines.

So, in other words, Porsche is doing what it does best: price discrimination. Meaning, you force your customers to reveal to you their true willingness to pay, and then you charge them for every single dime you possibly can. The reason that Porsche can offer so many options in their configurator, and why although a base Cayman costs < $60k, but by the time you've included all the options you want, it's $80k, is because they use a manufacturing technique called Lean, which enables them to have incredibly flexible production and incorporate true customization. And it's through customization that customers reveal their true willingness to pay.

Their re-introduction of the NA6 engine into the Cayman & Boxster isn't them admitting any kind of mistake. It's just them taking advantage of customers showing their true colors and getting those customers to pay through the nose.

For example, I personally love the turbo-4 and prefer it to NA6. So, my willingness to pay a premium for the NA6 is $0. However, clearly, there's an enthusiast / "purist" segment with a willingness to pay premium of > $20k. So, by using price discrimination, Porsche extracts my maximum willingness to pay by offering me a turbo-4 Cayman at $60k and they extract $80k from the purist by offering the purist a NA6.

It's genius!
You would have to know sales if the turbo 4 to know if it worked out for Porsche or not.
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