10-14-2020, 10:25 PM | #1 |
First Lieutenant
423
Rep 340
Posts |
M2 to M2 comp track experiences
This isn't a "VS" thread
Thinking about the option to trade-in for a comp and I'm looking for opinions and experiences of those of you who have driven both of these cars on track. It'd be great if there's as little cognitive bias/dissonance as possible. I think it's pretty safe to say the competition is the faster car, but what I am curious about is if it's also more enjoyable and reliable on track. I think the heart of the comparison for me really lies in the N55/S55 differences. The pros and cons all seem to go back and forth other than that M2 Competition Pros S55 power S55 cooling S55 rev range Nifty carbon chassis bracing (does this make a difference :shrug: ) M2 Competition Cons More weight 19" wheels required More money to operate I'm grappling with this because I do not like to modify power/reliability components, but after a strange howling noise and the thought of frustrating track weekends because of heat issues, I'm looking at charge pipes and coolers. Then comes the question of, "Shit, if I'm spending money on this stuff, why not just get the comp and a new warranty?" Am I overthinking it? Is the comp qualifiably better? PS: I looked around for threads, but most are just about seats, and mirrors, and which car makes [s]better[/s] worse fart noises. Last edited by M1500Z; 10-14-2020 at 10:59 PM.. |
10-14-2020, 10:55 PM | #2 |
First Lieutenant
184
Rep 303
Posts |
I made the change. No regrets. Your “pros” and “cons” above are spot on. You say you don’t like to mod but.....a stage 1 BM3 tune will get you 100 rwhp....no other mods. Amazing.
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2020, 11:47 PM | #3 |
First Lieutenant
342
Rep 396
Posts |
M2C on the track. I've driven one but own an OG.
Faster? Yes More reliable? Probably. More so if you are running >10-15 minutes per session where cooling might be a concern with the N55. More enjoyable? Meh. Depends how you define enjoyable. If enjoyable to you is focussed on absolute numbers for lap times and the ability to go faster than other people then the M2C will move your enjoyment factor up a notch. But as an "early intermediate" track day driver, I'm yet to get the best out of my OG M2. Almost each trip to the track results in a new PB for me although the gains are getting progressively smaller each outing. Put another way, the performance limitation is still me, not the car. Of course if I started over and had a choice of the two, M2C is the logical choice. But the changeover price to upgrade now is significant and I will find more enjoyment by putting that cost towards more frequent attendance and consumables like tyres. I say stick with what you've got unless it is causing you problems or holding you back. As an aside, I'm fortunate enough to also have a small FWD hatchback that is an absolute blast to drive on the track. It's slower than the M2 by some margin but I'd rate it as equally as much fun for one fifth the price of entry. Lately I've been tracking it more often than the M2. Good luck with the decision |
Appreciate
5
|
10-15-2020, 12:44 AM | #4 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
1996
Rep 1,759
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2020, 12:58 AM | #5 |
Lieutenant
336
Rep 427
Posts |
There are around a 1/2 dozen M2’s (mix of OG and Comps) that I’m on the track with regularly, and I can’t say I’ve noticed the power differential, so I’m not sure I’d let stock for stock power motivate your decision. I’m sure the power advantage is there, it’s just too small to not be lost in the noise among other differences.
But I can see the appeal of the superior cooling, stiffer chassis, and bigger brakes. Cooling and brakes especially in Texas. The N55 in the OG got a few choice upgrades (others can rattle these off more intelligently than me) from the S55 that leave me feeling pretty confident in durability. I’m interested to see what the G chassis M2 brings to the table and maybe it’ll be a big enough jump to make it worthwhile, or perhaps my M2 will start showing its age by then. For me, the OG vs Comp difference is too close to be anything but subjective preference with each having it’s pros and cons. I’m with Caduceus - spend the money saved by not upgrading on more track time. The $20k or so you’ll be out will buy a lot of tires, brakes pads and entry fees. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2020, 02:34 AM | #6 |
Captain
518
Rep 744
Posts |
If you are really after more power and want more reliability go M2C. The cooling on the S55 is amazing with the oil temp staying steady (and sometimes even diping below the normal threshold) no matter what you throw at it.
I also ovetake most things on track like they are standing still and can bring the fire to Porsche GT cars and the like. Its adictive to get the ass to slide a bit, wait till it hooks, and mash the throttle towards the horizon. as Karmic said if you dont put yourself into financial strain with this move I would seriously consider it. As to the brakes you can always "downgrade" to the OG brakes as they are a straight swap. Or get a front BBK that fits 18s and run a setup similar to the M2CS racing (alcon 6 pot fronts + cooling and OEM Brembo 4 pot rears with cooling mods) .
__________________
AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
|
Appreciate
3
|
10-15-2020, 05:13 AM | #7 |
Brigadier General
2811
Rep 3,695
Posts |
As Megator said, if you’re OK with stock power, pick which car you like more. I’m an M2 guy.
If you want to add power and hit the track, you’re going to need a long list of cooling related mods to make it work in the M2. Altho, the engine warranty is thrown out the window at that point for either car, and the required mod list is no more expensive than the price delta bn M2 & M2C cars. You’re just not going to be able to get as much reliable power on track out of the N55 vs S55, is all. |
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3353.50 |
10-15-2020, 05:25 AM | #8 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Quote:
Stock engine and cooling OG M2, same tires in all sessions. I could tell the car pulled harder out of the corners and up the hills. I’d like to think I suddenly found my inner Stig, but that’s only partially true.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 10-15-2020 at 05:52 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
1
ZM22810.50 |
10-15-2020, 07:15 AM | #9 | |
Captain
518
Rep 744
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
|
|
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3353.50 |
10-15-2020, 08:12 AM | #10 | |
Brigadier General
2811
Rep 3,695
Posts |
Quote:
While the Ring has some long straights for air flow, those long 4-5-6 gear pulls generate more heat than the stock IC can handle. I only ever got no power pulled on track when ambient was below 55F, before my cooling mods. |
|
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3353.50 |
10-15-2020, 09:12 AM | #11 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
4693
Rep 2,542
Posts |
Quote:
Out of the box the comp is going to give you better cooling. There is also a noticeable bump in power. If you plan to keep the car stockish and retain warranty - I feel it would be a more enjoyable choice. The biggest drawbacks of it to me though are the brakes and the exhaust. Being forced to 19" tires combined with the fitment constraints of this platform is kind of frustrating. There are options though whether you stick with the oem brakes or decide to go to a 18" friendly setup. The exhaust, well that is subjective... To me the OG shines when you are open to modding - but even at that you still might have to go pretty deep to keep it happy on the track around here. It certainly can be tracked & enjoyed around here stockish - but there is a good chance heat could quickly start pulling power.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2020, 09:14 AM | #12 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
I have ~9 months left before I re-patriate back, so I want to plan my last 2 track days in the M2 in April next year, before it gets warm.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
||
Appreciate
1
ZM22810.50 |
10-15-2020, 09:16 AM | #13 | |
Captain
518
Rep 744
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-15-2020, 09:18 AM | #14 |
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Thanks! Sounds fun. I may need to negotiate with the Boss since that's too far for a one day excursion. If not Spa is also on my list for next year!
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
Appreciate
1
Megator517.50 |
10-16-2020, 04:41 PM | #15 |
First Lieutenant
423
Rep 340
Posts |
Decisions decisions — I appreciate the opinions and experiences shared. If I had to give my car any demerit points, it would be that the cooling system isn't matched to the engine and it could use a few more RPM.
Laptimes, I think I can probably say for most of us, are important and aren't important. When comparing against largely equal variables, they are important, but I don't want to fall for the trap of buying a faster car to get faster laps. @Caduceus I am curious if you could elaborate more on your experience. I had a similar experience driving both on the street and only felt the steering was improved (and then I coded comp steering into my car). @OG Shark do you have a thread discussing what's done to your car and your experiences? I am not totally opposed to altering only the cooling system. As I said, I have no desire to make more power — there are other ways to find speed. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-17-2020, 07:42 AM | #16 |
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
I have one other question. We all agree that M2C will do better on the cooling front.
But has anyone confirmed that in the summer climates of TX, FL AZ or CA the M2C doesn't pull timing? Or verified at what temp it starts to? I'd be interested to know as M2C might be on my list of potential cars when I get back stateside next year. Right now that list is very limited. SS 1LE and Mustang Mach 1. The second one is close to price to a one year old M2C so, I might as well consider it also.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
Appreciate
0
|
10-17-2020, 09:04 AM | #17 | |
First Lieutenant
184
Rep 303
Posts |
Quote:
I’m not aware of cooling issues in the 1LEs either...and they are fast. GM appears to have done their homework on them as well. On the other hand, several of the Mustang guys I’ve visited with track-side seem to experience cooling issues..unless they’re in a Gt350R..which must have some extra cooling capacity. The blue oval guys also Seem to complain about difficulty with warranty claims, while the GM guys say GM Coverage has been great with the 1LEs, including replacing blown engines in track cars. . Last edited by M2C AW; 10-17-2020 at 09:43 AM.. |
|
10-17-2020, 10:49 AM | #18 | |
Colonel
2429
Rep 2,526
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-17-2020, 11:15 AM | #19 |
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Yes sir, planning to be back before September of next year. Situation allowing.
I ask because I had a 2014 GT Track Pack mustang before. Those cars were also considered fairly reliable for track duty. I went down the rabbit hole with mine. Sways, springs, adjustable dampers, camber plates, brakes, wheels, tires and then CAI/Tune combo. Car was solid for 5 seasons, but I kept getting quicker, and pushing harder, and being on throttle more, and on the 6th I started overheating it. I want to make sure I have headroom in the cooling department in my next weekend warrior. Or at least a plan for what to do when I get to that bridge.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
Appreciate
0
|
10-17-2020, 12:26 PM | #20 | |
Colonel
2429
Rep 2,526
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3353.50 |
10-17-2020, 01:43 PM | #21 | |
Lieutenant
429
Rep 433
Posts |
Quote:
Extremely impressed with the S55 cooling systems so far (knocks on wood) EDIT - This is on the stock tune. If I were to add considerably more power (such as a Stage 1 tune) I would probably make some upgrades such as a new front heat exchanger and a new top mount intercooler Last edited by 2020M2Competition; 10-17-2020 at 01:55 PM.. Reason: Added more comments |
|
Appreciate
1
5.M0NSTER3353.50 |
10-17-2020, 04:20 PM | #22 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
3354
Rep 1,823
Posts |
Quote:
But thank you for the info. Good to hear the M2C seems solid so far. Quote:
I hope! But it will be hard to source a car in time, unless I buy used. I still hope to make a showing. I'm planning a day on the 'Ring and a day at Spa in '21. Would be nice to finish with Grattan and Mid Ohio back stateside. That would be one epic season! If not '22 for sure!
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package --> SOLD 2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car! "Redline a day keeps the mechanics away" |
||
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|