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      10-08-2020, 03:06 PM   #1
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Confused about what oil to use

I have always been told to use the specified oil listed on the oil cap or under the hood.

It clearly states 0W-30



Yet, all the oils for M2 at ECS Tuning(apparently the most popular website to buy BMW parts) have the wrong spec?
https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F87-M2...e/Oil_Service/

They have:
  • BMW Genuine 5W-30
  • Liqui-Moly Molygen 5W-40
  • Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf 5W-40
  • Redline 5W-30


what the f*ck?
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      10-08-2020, 03:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
I have always been told to use the specified oil listed on the oil cap or under the hood.

It clearly states 0W-30



Yet, all the oils for M2 at ECS Tuning(apparently the most popular website to buy BMW parts) have the wrong spec?
https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F87-M2...e/Oil_Service/

They have:
  • BMW Genuine 5W-30
  • Liqui-Moly Molygen 5W-40
  • Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf 5W-40
  • Redline 5W-30


what the f*ck?
0w-30 is the recommended oil weight for the m2, but all LL01 specified oils will work and some 40 weights and 5w weights are indeed LL01 certified so they will work no problems.

I recommend saving your money on boutique oils like liqui moly because imo they are absolutely inferior compared to other cheaper oils based on specs and used oil analysis. For example pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 found at walmart in 5L jugs for 1/3 the price of liqui moly has better specs in every single regard from HTHS, NOACK, etc due to its GTL base making it a cleaner oil. So in essence do not fall into the brand name oil game, do your research and save your money.

The best place to look for oil advice is BOITOG, that's where you will get advice based on data, most other places you will just get advice based on preference.


One more thing, if you are still under warranty just use bmw oil that stuff is EXTREMELY stout. Don't listen to what other people say about it being "water" because it is a 30 weight because that statement could not be further from the truth. Viscosity is one thing but if it has a good sheer stability, additive package, etc then it would be just fine even under extreme conditions.
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      10-08-2020, 03:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
0w-30 is the recommended oil weight for the m2, but all LL01 specified oils will work and some 40 weights and 5w weights are indeed LL01 certified so they will work no problems.

I recommend saving your money on boutique oils like liqui moly because imo they are absolutely inferior compared to other cheaper oils based on specs and used oil analysis. For example pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 found at walmart in 5L jugs for 1/3 the price of liqui moly has better specs in every single regard from HTHS, NOACK, etc due to its GTL base making it a cleaner oil. So in essence do not fall into the brand name oil game, do your research and save your money.

The best place to look for oil advice is BOITOG, that's where you will get advice based on data, most other places you will just get advice based on preference.


One more thing, if you are still under warranty just use bmw oil that stuff is EXTREMELY stout. Don't listen to what other people say about it being "water" because it is a 30 weight because that statement could not be further from the truth. Viscosity is one thing but if it has a good sheer stability, additive package, etc then it would be just fine even under extreme conditions.
how do you feel about Castrol Edge 0W-40?

It is euro spec and lists Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and used to say BMW but not anymore, idk why but the oil is the same oil.
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      10-08-2020, 03:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
how do you feel about Castrol Edge 0W-40?

It is euro spec and lists Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and used to say BMW but not anymore, idk why but the oil is the same oil.
It's not LL01 anymore after the reformulation so that's why bmw is not listed. IIRC castrol 0w40 is better than castrol 5w40, but both imo are inferior to pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 which is a newer formulation, has higher HTHS, lower NOACK (iirc) at ~6%, due to its GTL base stock. Motul xcess 5w40 gen 2 (has to be gen 2) is pretty good/equal to pennzoil as well, but since the specs are really similar/almost the same in key aspects like HTHS to pennzoil so I would just get pennzoil as it is far cheaper. So overall I really like the pennzoil option and it is what I am going to use for my car next year, as it is an extremely well spec'ed oil with great performance and track capable, at a dirt cheap price.


Where really expensive oils come into play is If you are really tracking your car hard with over 600 whp with super high oil temps and you want/need even more sheer stability at that point then you would go with 300v, or redline 5w40. But before then there would be no need.


But remember the only way to truly know if your car needs a more expensive oil like 300v or redline is to run a used oil analysis, guessing and speculation is pretty much useless as it leads to comments like "bmw twin power turbo 0w30 is bad because it is like water".
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      10-08-2020, 04:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
It's not LL01 anymore after the reformulation so that's why bmw is not listed. IIRC castrol 0w40 is better than castrol 5w40, but both imo are inferior to pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 which is a newer formulation, has higher HTHS, lower NOACK (iirc) at ~6%, due to its GTL base stock. Motul xcess 5w40 gen 2 (has to be gen 2) is pretty good/equal to pennzoil as well, but since the specs are really similar/almost the same in key aspects like HTHS to pennzoil so I would just get pennzoil as it is far cheaper. So overall I really like the pennzoil option and it is what I am going to use for my car next year, as it is an extremely well spec'ed oil with great performance and track capable, at a dirt cheap price.


Where really expensive oils come into play is If you are really tracking your car hard with over 600 whp with super high oil temps and you want/need even more sheer stability at that point then you would go with 300v, or redline 5w40. But before then there would be no need.


But remember the only way to truly know if your car needs a more expensive oil like 300v or redline is to run a used oil analysis, guessing and speculation is pretty much useless as it leads to comments like "bmw twin power turbo 0w30 is bad because it is like water".
Yeah I think I'm gonna use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40, since and other forums mentioned it.

The only problem is they only seem to sell it individual 1 Qt bottles and not a 5 Qt Bottle.
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      10-08-2020, 04:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
Yeah I think I'm gonna use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40, since and other forums mentioned it.

The only problem is they only seem to sell it individual 1 Qt bottles and not a 5 Qt Bottle.
Weird, here in Canada at Canadian tire we have 5L jugs that are frequently on sale for 50% off which is really nice. So it comes out to $28.99CAD / 5L which is dirt cheap for really good oil.

Does walmart, autozone, O'Reilys have 5L jugs? Walmart here in Canada does, but I don't remember if they have it in the platbium euro formulation.
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      10-08-2020, 08:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
It's not LL01 anymore after the reformulation so that's why bmw is not listed. IIRC castrol 0w40 is better than castrol 5w40, but both imo are inferior to pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 which is a newer formulation, has higher HTHS, lower NOACK (iirc) at ~6%, due to its GTL base stock. Motul xcess 5w40 gen 2 (has to be gen 2) is pretty good/equal to pennzoil as well, but since the specs are really similar/almost the same in key aspects like HTHS to pennzoil so I would just get pennzoil as it is far cheaper. So overall I really like the pennzoil option and it is what I am going to use for my car next year, as it is an extremely well spec'ed oil with great performance and track capable, at a dirt cheap price.


Where really expensive oils come into play is If you are really tracking your car hard with over 600 whp with super high oil temps and you want/need even more sheer stability at that point then you would go with 300v, or redline 5w40. But before then there would be no need.


But remember the only way to truly know if your car needs a more expensive oil like 300v or redline is to run a used oil analysis, guessing and speculation is pretty much useless as it leads to comments like "bmw twin power turbo 0w30 is bad because it is like water".
Yeah I think I'm gonna use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40, since and other forums mentioned it.

The only problem is they only seem to sell it individual 1 Qt bottles and not a 5 Qt Bottle.
I used the same oil on my M2C. Ordered from Amazon when it was in stock.
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      10-09-2020, 12:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxified View Post
I used the same oil on my M2C. Ordered from Amazon when it was in stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Weird, here in Canada at Canadian tire we have 5L jugs that are frequently on sale for 50% off which is really nice. So it comes out to $28.99CAD / 5L which is dirt cheap for really good oil.

Does walmart, autozone, O'Reilys have 5L jugs? Walmart here in Canada does, but I don't remember if they have it in the platbium euro formulation.
I looked everywhere, 5w-40 is only sold in the small bottles, 5w-30 has a 5 L Jug though


also can you tell what oil filter to use?

I looked online and found conflicting info about compatibility on the

Mann HU8011Z (11427854445)

update: looks like the site that said it isn't compatible only lists years 2016 and 2017 and mine is a 2018, so it looks like they didn't update for the 2018 model year despite being the same engine

Last edited by PresidentEvil; 10-09-2020 at 01:00 PM..
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      10-09-2020, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
I looked everywhere, 5w-40 is only sold in the small bottles, 5w-30 has a 5 L Jug though


also can you tell what oil filter to use?

I looked online and found conflicting info about compatibility on the

Mann HU8011Z (11427854445)

update: looks like the site that said it isn't compatible only lists years 2016 and 2017 and mine is a 2018, so it looks like they didn't update for the 2018 model year despite being the same engine
Weird we have 5L jugs here.


Yes the filter is the mann hu8011z, I have like 4 filters in reserve at home.
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      10-14-2020, 09:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentEvil View Post
I looked everywhere, 5w-40 is only sold in the small bottles, 5w-30 has a 5 L Jug though


also can you tell what oil filter to use?

I looked online and found conflicting info about compatibility on the

Mann HU8011Z (11427854445)

update: looks like the site that said it isn't compatible only lists years 2016 and 2017 and mine is a 2018, so it looks like they didn't update for the 2018 model year despite being the same engine

Both Filter part numbers are compatible, one is Mann and the other is BMW OEM. Mann makes OEM.
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      10-14-2020, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
...both imo are inferior to pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 which is a newer formulation.
Forgive me for asking a stupidly simple question, but you seem to know your oil very well. My car is a daily, and will never see a track. It gets the odd blast here or there, but it's generally pampered. Would you recommend sticking with BMW oil, or the Pennzoil Platinum 5w40?

I'm in Missouri also, where temps range from -5°F in winter to 105°F in Summer.
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      10-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #12
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      10-14-2020, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Forgive me for asking a stupidly simple question, but you seem to know your oil very well. My car is a daily, and will never see a track. It gets the odd blast here or there, but it's generally pampered. Would you recommend sticking with BMW oil, or the Pennzoil Platinum 5w40?

I'm in Missouri also, where temps range from -5°F in winter to 105°F in Summer.
Well for colder conditions the 0w30 would suit it better as it will flow easier on cold starts.

However, -5°F isn't that cold imo as it is about -20°C and the pour point of Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 is all the way down to -45°C. So you wouldn't necessarily experience a huge negative with the ppe 5w40 during the winter if you insist on going with a 40 weight. If it was colder like -30°C or worse then I would definitely move to the 0w30. Also I wanted to say living here in Canada where it gets down to -35°C in the winter at times I've never really experienced any negatives running a 5w40 oil in my past subarus, and almost all subaru guys do the same. The important part is to let it warm up before driving it. I generally let it warm to 42°C before I drive my m2 in the summer. Then do not push it hard (no WOT and don't exceed 3000 rpm) until it fully warms up which is 90°C.


But seeing that you're in the USA (important because you have more pricing options for oil) and seeing how you do not track your car too much (not that the 0w30 can't take track use, but a higher weight oil would be able to take more abuse) I would recommend you just stay on the factory bmw twin power turbo 0w30 oil. The reason why I recommend this is because of the few reasons below:

1) You live in the USA so you can get the bmw oil for pretty cheap as you do not have to buy it from the stealership.

2) Despite being a 0w30 oil the bmw tpt 0w30 oil is quite stout with an hths of ~3.5, so it should have no issues with occasional track days.

3) since you daily your car in the winter a 0w30 oil will help minimize as much wear as possible during those cold winter start ups. A 5w40 shouldn't be too much worse in the cold if you really must have a 40 weight, but a 0w30 oil will definitely flow better and for a daily every bit helps to minimize wear and increase longevity.

4) I wouldn't really worry about your summer temps, for street driving your oil cooler should keep everything in check. If you are hitting limp mode just with street driving something is wrong with your car. For track use as long as your temps stay below limp mode you'll be fine on 0w30, because that bmw oil is stout. If you are exceeding limp mode temps or have a heavily modded m2 I would probably step up to a 40 weight or upgrade the oil cooler, or do both depending on temps and oil analysis. Also alot of guys on bitog intentionally buy bmw 0w30 to use in non bmws because of how good it is. So don't listen to those people that call it water.

5) all my advice is just a guide line, every one experiences slightly different conditions based on driving etc. So your best bet is to do a used oil analysis as that will give you the best answers. For example if you see more wear metals running a 40 weight in the winter you must go to a 30 weight. Or if you see alot of wear metals running a 30 weight in the summer you should step up to a 40 weight and get a test.



But generally speaking for a stock/lightly modded m2, bmw did a fricken good job pairing it with the 0w30 oil, as it should just about suit every condition.
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      10-14-2020, 01:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Well for colder conditions the 0w30 would suit it better as it will flow easier on cold starts.

However, -5°F isn't that cold imo as it is about -20°C and the pour point of Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 is all the way down to -45°C. So you wouldn't necessarily experience a huge negative with the ppe 5w40 during the winter if you insist on going with a 40 weight. If it was colder like -30°C or worse then I would definitely move to the 0w30. Also I wanted to say living here in Canada where it gets down to -35°C in the winter at times I've never really experienced any negatives running a 5w40 oil in my past subarus, and almost all subaru guys do the same. The important part is to let it warm up before driving it. I generally let it warm to 42°C before I drive my m2 in the summer. Then do not push it hard (no WOT and don't exceed 3000 rpm) until it fully warms up which is 90°C.


But seeing that you're in the USA (important because you have more pricing options for oil) and seeing how you do not track your car too much (not that the 0w30 can't take track use, but a higher weight oil would be able to take more abuse) I would recommend you just stay on the factory bmw twin power turbo 0w30 oil. The reason why I recommend this is because of the few reasons below:

1) You live in the USA so you can get the bmw oil for pretty cheap as you do not have to buy it from the stealership.

2) Despite being a 0w30 oil the bmw tpt 0w30 oil is quite stout with an hths of ~3.5, so it should have no issues with occasional track days.

3) since you daily your car in the winter a 0w30 oil will help minimize as much wear as possible during those cold winter start ups. A 5w40 shouldn't be too much worse in the cold if you really must have a 40 weight, but a 0w30 oil will definitely flow better and for a daily every bit helps to minimize wear and increase longevity.

4) I wouldn't really worry about your summer temps, for street driving your oil cooler should keep everything in check. If you are hitting limp mode just with street driving something is wrong with your car. For track use as long as your temps stay below limp mode you'll be fine on 0w30, because that bmw oil is stout. If you are exceeding limp mode temps or have a heavily modded m2 I would probably step up to a 40 weight or upgrade the oil cooler, or do both depending on temps and oil analysis. Also alot of guys on bitog intentionally buy bmw 0w30 to use in non bmws because of how good it is. So don't listen to those people that call it water.

5) all my advice is just a guide line, every one experiences slightly different conditions based on driving etc. So your best bet is to do a used oil analysis as that will give you the best answers. For example if you see more wear metals running a 40 weight in the winter you must go to a 30 weight. Or if you see alot of wear metals running a 30 weight in the summer you should step up to a 40 weight and get a test.



But generally speaking for a stock/lightly modded m2, bmw did a fricken good job pairing it with the 0w30 oil, as it should just about suit every condition.
Awesome info man, much appreciated. I'll just buy the BMW oil from Getbmwparts.com. I'm pretty OEM when it comes to filters, so I'll just get that from them as well.
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      10-14-2020, 01:57 PM   #15
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Awesome info man, much appreciated. I'll just buy the BMW oil from Getbmwparts.com. I'm pretty OEM when it comes to filters, so I'll just get that from them as well.
No problem, sorry for any typos as I typed it on my phone while eating lunch.

I think it's cheaper at bimmerworld.

Yeah don't go aftermarket oil filter, the bmw stuff is really good. If you want to save money get it from mann as they are the OEM for bmw. Part number is hu8011z, I have 4 filters in my basement ready to go.

Also what are your mods?

And make sure to get an oil analysis after a track day to see if everything is ok. That'll be your final determination what oil to use, that will be more accurate than any bit of advice.
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      10-14-2020, 02:09 PM   #16
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Oh I also wanted to say if you're stock or lightly tuned 0w30 should be more than adequate even for track use (again oil analysis to confirm) because the higher powered bmws like the m2c/m3/m4 and m4 gts all use 0w30 and can track on it just fine. But remember those cars have better oil coolers so just be a bit more cautious on the og m2, as long as you're not hitting limp mode or have a good oil cooler you should be ok. Unless you have a huge turbo making crazy power, or are really beating the crap out of your car with super high temps in long sessions, then you should move to a thicker oil with a high hths.
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      10-14-2020, 03:58 PM   #17
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Did I read that right? a SAE 5W is less viscous at low temperatures than a SAE 0W? If so, How?
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      10-14-2020, 04:23 PM   #18
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No problem, sorry for any typos as I typed it on my phone while eating lunch.

I think it's cheaper at bimmerworld.

Yeah don't go aftermarket oil filter, the bmw stuff is really good. If you want to save money get it from mann as they are the OEM for bmw. Part number is hu8011z, I have 4 filters in my basement ready to go.

Also what are your mods?

And make sure to get an oil analysis after a track day to see if everything is ok. That'll be your final determination what oil to use, that will be more accurate than any bit of advice.

Oh I also wanted to say if you're stock or lightly tuned 0w30 should be more than adequate even for track use (again oil analysis to confirm) because the higher powered bmws like the m2c/m3/m4 and m4 gts all use 0w30 and can track on it just fine. But remember those cars have better oil coolers so just be a bit more cautious on the og m2, as long as you're not hitting limp mode or have a good oil cooler you should be ok. Unless you have a huge turbo making crazy power, or are really beating the crap out of your car with super high temps in long sessions, then you should move to a thicker oil with a high hths.
Thanks for the tips, I'll check the prices on Bimmerworld when my warranty runs out.

I don't really have any power mods, just a Fabspeed Sport Cat. I had always planned to go basic Stage 2 when the warranty runs out, just a Wagner IC and 93 octane flash, but having second thoughts about that. I'm one of those guys that just wants to get the parts, flash it, and forget it forever. I don't want any issues. So maybe I'll get the IC and flash the 91 tune (even though all I use is 93).

My car will NEVER see a track. If I want to do that sort of thing I'll use my Exige, so super light duty for my M2, just a blast here or there.
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      10-14-2020, 04:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Did I read that right? a SAE 5W is less viscous at low temperatures than a SAE 0W? If so, How?
What do you mean? I didn't say that.


Also I would like to correct a few things since pennzoil reformulated recently:

1) PPE 5w40's pour point went up to -36ºC instead of -45ºC like the old version, so another reason for visualecho to stick with bmw TPT 0w30. But since his winter temps don't get worse than around -20ºC he could technically still run it in the winter, although it would be better from a wear perspective to run 0w30 which would fit well with his all year round driving style + infrequent track useage.

2) Comparing PPE 0w40 vs PPE 5w40 CCS viscosity at -30ºC is lower for 0w40 by 600 cP. So 0w40 would flow better at the colder temps albeit not by much.
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      10-14-2020, 04:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Thanks for the tips, I'll check the prices on Bimmerworld when my warranty runs out.

I don't really have any power mods, just a Fabspeed Sport Cat. I had always planned to go basic Stage 2 when the warranty runs out, just a Wagner IC and 93 octane flash, but having second thoughts about that. I'm one of those guys that just wants to get the parts, flash it, and forget it forever. I don't want any issues. So maybe I'll get the IC and flash the 91 tune (even though all I use is 93).

My car will NEVER see a track. If I want to do that sort of thing I'll use my Exige, so super light duty for my M2, just a blast here or there.
No problem.

Yeah those use cases would be perfectly matched with the oem bmw twin power turbo 0w30 oil. Extremely stout oil that can handle abuse, and year round use.
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      10-15-2020, 01:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
What do you mean? I didn't say that.


Also I would like to correct a few things since pennzoil reformulated recently:

1) PPE 5w40's pour point went up to -36ºC instead of -45ºC like the old version, so another reason for visualecho to stick with bmw TPT 0w30. But since his winter temps don't get worse than around -20ºC he could technically still run it in the winter, although it would be better from a wear perspective to run 0w30 which would fit well with his all year round driving style + infrequent track useage.

2) Comparing PPE 0w40 vs PPE 5w40 CCS viscosity at -30ºC is lower for 0w40 by 600 cP. So 0w40 would flow better at the colder temps albeit not by much.
Thought I should check.
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      10-22-2020, 06:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
No problem, sorry for any typos as I typed it on my phone while eating lunch.

I think it's cheaper at bimmerworld.

Yeah don't go aftermarket oil filter, the bmw stuff is really good. If you want to save money get it from mann as they are the OEM for bmw. Part number is hu8011z, I have 4 filters in my basement ready to go.

Also what are your mods?

And make sure to get an oil analysis after a track day to see if everything is ok. That'll be your final determination what oil to use, that will be more accurate than any bit of advice.
on bimmerworld.com there are two oils listed as "OEM 5W40 engine oil meets LL-01 standards"


https://www.bimmerworld.com/Pentosin...ne-Oil-5L.html


https://www.bimmerworld.com/Pentosin...e-Oil-20L.html


what's your opinion on them?
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