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      08-03-2020, 10:11 AM   #1
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Preface: I live in Texas. It's fucking hot here. It hits 100 or damn close every day.

They are wanting to do my first year oil change service using their 0w30 oil. They said I can bring my own oil, but then what is the point of going in for service? I might as well just change it myself, and I know I won't fuck something up, or have to worry about some 17 year old porter removing 1,000 miles of tread in 100 feet of parking lot... There is also the mental image of them slamming a fucking air gun on my FI-Rs...

Should I just tell them to fuck off and not even go in? For my 1200 mile service I basically drove it home, drained out the water they call oil, and put in Penzoil Euro 5w40 (LL-01).

I dunno. I guess it comes down to what kind of value is actually in this particular service. Maybe services where they don't just change the oil it's worth going in?
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      08-03-2020, 10:51 AM   #2
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You need BMW to do the service. There are serious warranty implications if you don't. It seems quite stupid but that's the reality.

You 100% NEED to have them do the run in service. Without that notation on your service history they will almost certainly void the engine warranty if something ever goes wrong for the life of the motor. I would get them to do the run in service and the standard services after that. If they won't run the oil you want then just do the service again yourself.
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      08-03-2020, 11:08 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
There is also the mental image of them slamming a fucking air gun on my FI-Rs...
I don't know why they would remove your wheels for a run-in service?

I've taken my own oil before. I don't really trust bulk oil coming from some unknown storage tank. Is that weird
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      08-03-2020, 11:20 AM   #4
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Ok, just to clarify to everyone... This is not a run in service... This is the 1 YEAR service, as stated in the original post. The car has many many miles beyond the break in oil.

But I suppose the take away answer from these replies, is to take it in, let them do the oil change so that it goes into the vehicle history, then do what I did last time, and drain it and do my own service.

Last edited by msdss; 08-03-2020 at 11:26 AM..
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      08-03-2020, 01:12 PM   #5
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Well, noting that it's all fully synthetic oil, it doesn't noticeably degrade at 100F when designed to cope with over 200F. Obvs, leave it in an open container for a decade, and it won't be as good, but it isn't brake fluid.

Plus, you want it to be a thin as possible on start up, so why not 0W40?
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      08-03-2020, 01:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by msdss View Post
Ok, just to clarify to everyone... This is not a run in service... This is the 1 YEAR service, as stated in the original post. The car has many many miles beyond the break in oil.

But I suppose the take away answer from these replies, is to take it in, let them do the oil change so that it goes into the vehicle history, then do what I did last time, and drain it and do my own service.
Oh, you threw out the BMW LL1 oil and replaced with your own LL1. Besides being extremely wasteful. What was the benefit?
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      08-03-2020, 06:59 PM   #7
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Oh, you threw out the BMW LL1 oil and replaced with your own LL1. Besides being extremely wasteful. What was the benefit?
OP is replacing the LL-01FE 0W-30 with a LL-01 5W40

Not what BMW currently recommends, but given the operating conditions an understandable decision
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      08-05-2020, 04:00 AM   #8
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Last time flew into DFW it snowed - in April...
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      08-05-2020, 12:28 PM   #9
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Last time flew into DFW it snowed - in April...
Haha welcome to North Dallas weather. About as bi-polar as my ex.

OP, I think you need to find a dealer worth trusting. If you're in the North Texas area, I highly recommend Grapevine BMW.
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      08-05-2020, 12:56 PM   #10
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Last time flew into DFW it snowed - in April...
I haven't seen tangible snow in Austin in over a decade. it's usually 90 in December. Currently 100. I hate this fucking state.
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      08-05-2020, 07:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
Preface: I live in Texas. It's fucking hot here. It hits 100 or damn close every day.

They are wanting to do my first year oil change service using their 0w30 oil. They said I can bring my own oil, but then what is the point of going in for service? I might as well just change it myself, and I know I won't fuck something up, or have to worry about some 17 year old porter removing 1,000 miles of tread in 100 feet of parking lot... There is also the mental image of them slamming a fucking air gun on my FI-Rs...

Should I just tell them to fuck off and not even go in? For my 1200 mile service I basically drove it home, drained out the water they call oil, and put in Penzoil Euro 5w40 (LP-01).

I dunno. I guess it comes down to what kind of value is actually in this particular service. Maybe services where they don't just change the oil it's worth going in?
Not a good idea because if you do not let them have a record of doing oil changes you will have huge issues with warranty claims in regards to the powertrain in the future.

Next, you are hugely mistaken when it comes to oil - remember not all oil has to be thick like honey to be considered "good" there are tolerances in the engine so you cannot always go thicker, also just because an oil is thin does not mean it is bad for example if you go with a 0w30 or 0w40 but with really good base stocks like a pao or group 5 ester base stock you can get even better shear protection than some crappy 10w60 oils. The twin power turbo 0w30 oil bmw uses is an insanely stout oil coming in with an HTHS of ~3.2- 3.5 which is insanely high for a 30 weight LL01 approved oil. The pennzoil platnium euro 5w40 is actually a very good oil too (I am planning to run this when my warranty is done) and it has an HTHS of 3.8 with the new reformulation. So do not be so quick to judge the 0w30. Also it doesn't matter where you live, there will be no situation where your environment is so hot that it affects the oil's ability to do well and protect your engine. If you are just street driving or spirited driving your oil cooler will keep the oil temps perfectly fine, if you are tracking in a hot environment then yes a thicker oil is recommended. The only thing that environmental temps would influence is your winter weight (the number before the W), in hotter climates you can run a 5w, but either way it does not really matter too much. IMO I would stick with the bmw oil until your warranty is over, that way warranty work will not be a hassle. And remember the bmw oil is actually some really good stuff, and is made by shell just like pennzoil is.

So please do not fall into some common misconceptions about oil you can end up damaging you engine or wasting money, I am letting you know this because I see so much bad advice on these car forums, if you want better oil advice you can do more research on bob is the oil guy.


PS: there is no such thing as LP 01 it is LL01.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition View Post
OP is replacing the LL-01FE 0W-30 with a LL-01 5W40

Not what BMW currently recommends, but given the operating conditions an understandable decision
Nothing wrong with that, LL01 is better than LL01 FE for protection imo, because FE is for fuel efficiency which means the oils have a lower viscosity for lower friction and this generally leads to formulation with a lower HTHS ratings to allow for less friction and thus better fuel economy. So personally if I were to track a car I would switch to an LL01 oil, but do not count out the twin power turbo oil because it indeed is very very stout, but even still I would switch the pennzoil platnium euro as it has a higher HTHS which offers better protection under high temps and hard driving.


Also you are misinformed, the manual may say LL-01 FE is required but there are also other suitable alternatives the manual does not specify because it is too limited in scope the bmw TIS is more accurate, LL-01 approved oils being some of them. Another example is the manual says only 0w30 but you are actually able to use a 5w40 oil as well, as per the bmw TIS. The manual just doesn't specify all of this data because if they did it would be too confusing for a basic bmw owner who doesn't care about all this, and the manual would be huge.


Here is the chart showing suitable approvals for the m2: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...engine/1PSryV8

Here are the approved oils with LL01 certifications, this is really important because alot of oils say LL01 on the bottle or LL01 suitable, but are not actually LL01 approved, ams oil comes to mind at the time of writing this, so you have to check with the BMW TIS to be 100% safe.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ine/1VnYpiUbyG
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      08-08-2020, 03:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
PS: there is no such thing as LP 01 it is LL01.
Typo. And I'm going in for service just to protect my warranty.
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      08-08-2020, 04:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by msdss View Post
Typo. And I'm going in for service just to protect my warranty.
That would be a good move, since you have an M2C and those things are known for a whole abundance of failures: crank hub, valvetronic, oil cooler etc. So if you opted to ditch any of the bmw service at all then if an issue popped up they will make it hell for you to claim warranty.


I also recommend you service the oil at half the mileage interval bmw recommends or else the car will not have a long life expectancy as bmw prescribes oil change intervals that are way too long. But the caviot is you should use their oil or an LL01 oil of the same weight, because if there is an engine failure they could do an oil analysis and if the oil is a different weight that could also cause issues with warranty. This was very common practice in the subaru world.
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      08-08-2020, 11:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
Typo. And I'm going in for service just to protect my warranty.
That would be a good move, since you have an M2C and those things are known for a whole abundance of failures: crank hub, valvetronic, oil cooler etc. So if you opted to ditch any of the bmw service at all then if an issue popped up they will make it hell for you to claim warranty.


I also recommend you service the oil at half the mileage interval bmw recommends or else the car will not have a long life expectancy as bmw prescribes oil change intervals that are way too long. But the caviot is you should use their oil or an LL01 oil of the same weight, because if there is an engine failure they could do an oil analysis and if the oil is a different weight that could also cause issues with warranty. This was very common practice in the subaru world.
I'm changing the oil every 3,000. and did a lot of research before choosing the oil I did. I've decided that I'm ok with the 0w-30 for the meantime since I'm not doing much driving here in the fucking plague state of Texas, and it's about to be "winter" and the crisp 85 degree weather will be fine with the BMW recommended oil.

I'm looking at my service internals now... 3 years for brake fluid? I've always done once a year... /shrug..

anyway.. yeah. all the talk of warranty issues has convinced me. I don't want the drama.
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      08-08-2020, 02:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
I'm changing the oil every 3,000. and did a lot of research before choosing the oil I did. I've decided that I'm ok with the 0w-30 for the meantime since I'm not doing much driving here in the fucking plague state of Texas, and it's about to be "winter" and the crisp 85 degree weather will be fine with the BMW recommended oil.

I'm looking at my service internals now... 3 years for brake fluid? I've always done once a year... /shrug..

anyway.. yeah. all the talk of warranty issues has convinced me. I don't want the drama.
3000 miles is a good interval, but like I said before 0w30 from bmw is extremely stout and would be fine regardless of where you live even if temps were 50°C. If you tracked your car this would be different and it aid be better to move up to a 40 weight.


Brake fluid is 3 years for the first change and after that every 2 years. For street use this is fine, again if you track your car you should do it before every track day or at a maximum every 6 months to avoid water accumulation in the brake fluid.
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      08-08-2020, 03:01 PM   #16
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Also I should mention, used oil analysis and technical data sheets are much more important for doing research on oil than simply following tends on forums because that leads to notions like "water like oil" or "thicker is better". But the most important thing to look at is your own used oil analysis because everyone's driving style is different. For example someone's track analysis might show the oil as inufficient as tbn drops significantly and metal contents are high. But that oil may be fine for a daily driver. So the best thing to do is to do a used oil analysis on your own oil and see if it works in your application. But this would only be a concern once you are done your warranty period so you don't mess up your warranty.

Also more recent data is better than older data because oils always go through reformulations, so what's good today might not be good tomorrow. For example Pennzoil platbium euro 5w40 had an hths of 3.6 in the past and just recently they reformulated to get api sp approval which brought hths to 3.8.


Overall for most people remaining after the warranty on bmw twin power turbo 0w30 would be more than sufficient, but I don't recommend to use this oil after the warranty period not because of its inability to protect compared to another oil, but because of the price. Twin power turbo from the dealer is so expensive compared to Pennzoil platbium euro 5w40 when it's on sale ($29 for a 5L jug in Canada).
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      08-26-2020, 08:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Well, noting that it's all fully synthetic oil, it doesn't noticeably degrade at 100F when designed to cope with over 200F. Obvs, leave it in an open container for a decade, and it won't be as good, but it isn't brake fluid.

Plus, you want it to be a thin as possible on start up, so why not 0W40?
Motor oils have a shelf life. Synthetics up to 1 year for open containers and up to 5 years unopened. The manufacture date is on the container.

Agreed on 0W for start up.... just for reference, Porsche recommends 0W-40.
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      08-26-2020, 02:37 PM   #18
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Motor oils have a shelf life. Synthetics up to 1 year for open containers and up to 5 years unopened. The manufacture date is on the container.

Agreed on 0W for start up.... just for reference, Porsche recommends 0W-40.
Pennzoil platbium euro 5w40 is 4 years (it might be 5 I can't remember but it doesn't matter if it's opened or not) from date of manufacturing for both opened containers and sealed.
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      08-28-2020, 05:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertm View Post
You need BMW to do the service. There are serious warranty implications if you don't. It seems quite stupid but that's the reality.

You 100% NEED to have them do the run in service. Without that notation on your service history they will almost certainly void the engine warranty if something ever goes wrong for the life of the motor. I would get them to do the run in service and the standard services after that. If they won't run the oil you want then just do the service again yourself.
BMW was fined by the FTC for rthis. If the service writer requires this, get it in writing and mail it to the FTC.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/03/bmw-settles-ftc-charges-its-mini-division-illegally-conditioned

The car needs to have a service but documentation such as a dated receipt for the correct oil or from an indie mechanic is enough.
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