[kabuda999]

My car is the N55 M2,
I'm running Wagner EVO2 Competition intercooler and BM3 Stage 2 91oct tune.
I got max 125C(257f) oil temp and 105C(221f) water temp until I stopped pushing it. What's the safe zone for our cars?

[ZM2]

Those temps are fine.

See the guard and emergency temps listed at the bottom here: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...oling/F7kt8r2W

[kabuda999]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Those temps are fine.

See the guard and emergency temps listed at the bottom here: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...oling/F7kt8r2W

Thank you for the info!

[5.M0NSTER]

Wow, 302F oil temp before guard mode, and emergency mode up to 325F. Now we’re cooking. I was expecting 270F to be the limit. Good stuff, thanks for posting!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by kabuda999

Thank you for the info!

You can also use BM3’s MaxCool mode on hot track days to keep things cooled off more before you start pushing. I figure it’ll buy you a couple more laps on a hot day, but I haven’t tried it on track yet.

If you ever get to 242F coolant, you’ll feel the car start to pull power and shift earlier—it’s pretty noticeable. If temps continue to increase you’ll also get the guard message on the idrive screen saying you need to drive easier.

I’ve only seen the emergency message on idrive once and I figured it was time to back down!

Overall, it’s pretty amazing how well newer cars can take car of themselves with high temps, but if you’re mod’ed much and are pushing hard and if it’s summertime, these are things to watch for.

I have my phone mounted and my BM3 dashboard up while I’m on track, so I’m actually keeping a very close eye on coolant, oil, gearbox, and IATs.

[Montaver]

I'd be very concerned about oil degradation at those temps. My E90 M3 would push to around 270f on track, but it runs nice thick 10W-60 which can better withstand the heat.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Montaver

I'd be very concerned about oil degradation at those temps. My E90 M3 would push to around 270f on track, but it runs nice thick 10W-60 which can better withstand the heat.

Definitely agree. I run 5w-40 or 10w-40 Motul 300V on track. My oil temps dropped ~15F just from the 300V vs OEM oil.

I also run half E85, so that thins the oil some and the thicker oil helps to keep from burning as much.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by kabuda999

My car is the N55 M2,
I'm running Wagner EVO2 Competition intercooler and BM3 Stage 2 91oct tune.
I got max 125C(257f) oil temp and 105C(221f) water temp until I stopped pushing it. What's the safe zone for our cars?

117ºC max for water temps before yellow limp mode is hit so stay below that and you are ok, a bit higher and you will hit red limp mode. Max oil temp you want to be is at 132ºC but limp mode is way higher but at that temp your oils is going to be very thin.

This is an indepth guide to bmw's limp mode temps: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156

Originally Posted by Montaver

I'd be very concerned about oil degradation at those temps. My E90 M3 would push to around 270f on track, but it runs nice thick 10W-60 which can better withstand the heat.

HTHS is what you should be looking for when getting an oil capable of handling high temps on the track not oil weight. Also note bearing clearances could be a factor on super thick oils, so for the m2 I would stick to a 40 weight at most.

That being said if you do not want to flush your oil out constantly from running a track oil like 300v which is not really suitable for daily use as it is not LL01 certified meaning it does not have a suitable NOACK rating, and additive packages might not be up to speck I would stick to a daily use oil with high enough specs that can handle track duty.

So this would mean something like valvoline full synthetic advanced which has a pretty good tbn rating, and has an HTHS of 3.7 which is quite good. Or my personal choice penzzoil platnium euro 5w4 which has really good TBN ratings, excellent NOACK in the 6% range, and a HTHS of 3.6 which is equivalent to motul xmax 8100 0w40 at 1/2 the price with equal specs (this shows price is not a good indicator of oil performance). Penzoil platinum euro 5w40 also has a better NOACK, higher HTHS and better specs overall than liquimoly leichthauf 5w40 as well (again this shows price is not a good judge of oil quality). Then comparing to non-LL01 approved oils (but they are claimed to be by the manufacture, maybe they meet LL01 specs but bmw never liscenced them who knows but some of them do not meet the NOACK rating though) such as ams oil european car formula 5w40, and redline professional the specs are similar to Pennzoil but the only benefit is that it has a 3.7 HTHS rating vs. pennzoil with a 3.6 so not much better for 2-3X the price. So overall penzzoil has a really good HTHS rating for a 40 weight oil and it is near the top for LL01 approved oils at a fraction of the price so this is what I personally will run when I run out of free oil changes.

If you want a really do not care about LL01 approved oils and want the best 300v is your choice (but you probably will have to flush your oil loop out so you get the best characterisitcs of the 300v oil and have it undiluted by the stock oil which will cost alot and you have to flush it to go back to the street), if you do not want to pay 300v money redline has a 5w40 oil that is suitable to be a ll01 replacement (even though additives or composition of the oil, prevents it from being certified as a real LL01 which is why it is not LL01 approved) and has an HTHS in the ~4.4 range. So this redline is what I would run if I only wanted 1 oil for street and track and did not care about LL01 but didn't want to stray too far away from what bmw recommends to avoid carbon build up etc.

Here is the bmw LL01 approvals for anyone interested (please be careful not to fall for the manufacture's tricks saying an oil is recommened for LL01, or meets LL01 specs because they could be misleading you, so always check this guide by BMW which is semi regularly updated to be sure) :https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ply/1VnYpiUbyG

PS: Sorry for the rant which may be incoherent, feel free to ask for clarifications.

[ZM2]

F87source

Yeah, a good point that is often missed is the non-LL01 oils should be changed sooner. 300V is 3-5k miles. I mostly drive on the weekends and the track, so the mileage limit works for me.

Does Redline mention a mileage life amount on their high HTHS oil that you mentioned?

Switching back to coolant temps: I’m going to flush with distilled water and a wetter this/next week for the summer. Should improve heat removal by ~20%, which is significant for those of us hitting 240F+ coolant temps on track.

Boiling point should be around 250F under pressure, so will keep an eye on that as well.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by F87source

117ºC max for water temps before yellow limp mode is hit so stay below that and you are ok, a bit higher and you will hit red limp mode. Max oil temp you want to be is at 132ºC but limp mode is way higher but at that temp your oils is going to be very thin.

This is an indepth guide to bmw's limp mode temps: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156



HTHS is what you should be looking for when getting an oil capable of handling high temps on the track not oil weight. Also note bearing clearances could be a factor on super thick oils, so for the m2 I would stick to a 40 weight at most.

That being said if you do not want to flush your oil out constantly from running a track oil like 300v which is not really suitable for daily use as it is not LL01 certified meaning it does not have a suitable NOACK rating, and additive packages might not be up to speck I would stick to a daily use oil with high enough specs that can handle track duty.

So this would mean something like valvoline full synthetic advanced which has a pretty good tbn rating, and has an HTHS of 3.7 which is quite good. Or my personal choice penzzoil platnium euro 5w4 which has really good TBN ratings, excellent NOACK in the 6% range, and a HTHS of 3.6 which is equivalent to motul xmax 8100 0w40 at 1/2 the price with equal specs (this shows price is not a good indicator of oil performance). Penzoil platinum euro 5w40 also has a better NOACK, higher HTHS and better specs overall than liquimoly leichthauf 5w40 as well (again this shows price is not a good judge of oil quality). Then comparing to non-LL01 approved oils (but they are claimed to be by the manufacture, maybe they meet LL01 specs but bmw never liscenced them who knows but some of them do not meet the NOACK rating though) such as ams oil european car formula 5w40, and redline professional the specs are similar to Pennzoil but the only benefit is that it has a 3.7 HTHS rating vs. pennzoil with a 3.6 so not much better for 2-3X the price. So overall penzzoil has a really good HTHS rating for a 40 weight oil and it is near the top for LL01 approved oils at a fraction of the price so this is what I personally will run when I run out of free oil changes.

If you want a really do not care about LL01 approved oils and want the best 300v is your choice (but you probably will have to flush your oil loop out so you get the best characterisitcs of the 300v oil and have it undiluted by the stock oil which will cost alot and you have to flush it to go back to the street), if you do not want to pay 300v money redline has a 5w40 oil that is suitable to be a ll01 replacement (even though additives or composition of the oil, prevents it from being certified as a real LL01 which is why it is not LL01 approved) and has an HTHS in the ~4.4 range. So this redline is what I would run if I only wanted 1 oil for street and track and did not care about LL01 but didn't want to stray too far away from what bmw recommends to avoid carbon build up etc.

Here is the bmw LL01 approvals for anyone interested (please be careful not to fall for the manufacture's tricks saying an oil is recommened for LL01, or meets LL01 specs because they could be misleading you, so always check this guide by BMW which is semi regularly updated to be sure) :https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ply/1VnYpiUbyG

PS: Sorry for the rant which may be incoherent, feel free to ask for clarifications.

What oil do you recommend for the S55? On my S65 I used standard BMW (I believe it was Castrol although it changed a few times) and flushed it every 5-6 days of track time and every 5K miles. When I changed my rod bearings they came out looking excellent for an S65 with very little wear at all at 30k miles.

My M2C has 5K miles and is about to get started tracking in 2 weeks (finally!!) so I'd like to change the oil prior. It's had one change to date, the running in service at 1K.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Montaver

What oil do you recommend for the S55? On my S65 I used standard BMW (I believe it was Castrol although it changed a few times) and flushed it every 5-6 days of track time and every 5K miles. When I changed my rod bearings they came out looking excellent for an S65 with very little wear at all at 30k miles.

My M2C has 5K miles and is about to get started tracking in 2 weeks (finally!!) so I'd like to change the oil prior. It's had one change to date, the running in service at 1K.

I was same. Every 7k miles I'd change my oil. Now some years and few blackstone analysis later I decided to just trust the OEM intervals.

Funny thing is here in EU the OEM recommendation is every 2 years, or 25,000 km. So 2 years or 16,000 miles. I had it changed in March of 2019, I did 3 track days last year, and starting this Friday I'm back at the 'Ring. Computer says 16,000km left till the next change, or March of 2021. I don't plan to touch it this year even with extra 4 track days.

Wish me luck though I'm sure BMW knows what they're doing.

[F87source]

Remember guys I am not the ultimate expert in oil if you want even better advice go seek out the guys on bob is the oil guy. But I have learned alot from reading an extensive number of posts on there and what I recommend is that just because an oil is more expensive than another oil does not mean it is better, for example penzzoil vs. liqui moly. The penzzoil has better NOACK, and better HTHS, with similar additives but at a fraction of the price. So no need to waste money on more expensive oil if the cheaper one is just as good and can protect you on the track. Also just because one oil has alot higher HTHS than another does not mean it cannot handle track temps, I believe above 3.5 is good. The final thing is everyone's driving is different so do a used oil analysis on your car to ensure the oil is holding up, speculation doesn't mean much compared to real data.

Originally Posted by ZM2

F87source

Yeah, a good point that is often missed is the non-LL01 oils should be changed sooner. 300V is 3-5k miles. I mostly drive on the weekends and the track, so the mileage limit works for me.

No the issue is 300v is a really high ester content oil and likely a group 5 base oil. I have also heard these group 5 oils do no promote seal swell which is why they should not be used as a street oil and only for racing, so in my opinion I would switch back to an LL01 oil for street use.

Originally Posted by ZM2

Does Redline mention a mileage life amount on their high HTHS oil that you mentioned?

They did not but that oil seems to be a group 4 base oil since it is high in PAO's and has alot of esters too. IMO that one should be more suitable for full time street use and track time on top.

Originally Posted by ZM2

Switching back to coolant temps: I’m going to flush with distilled water and a wetter this/next week for the summer. Should improve heat removal by ~20%, which is significant for those of us hitting 240F+ coolant temps on track.

Boiling point should be around 250F under pressure, so will keep an eye on that as well.

Add some antifreeze as well to ensure there is no corrosion.

Originally Posted by Montaver

What oil do you recommend for the S55? On my S65 I used standard BMW (I believe it was Castrol although it changed a few times) and flushed it every 5-6 days of track time and every 5K miles. When I changed my rod bearings they came out looking excellent for an S65 with very little wear at all at 30k miles.

Any LL01 oil would be fine for street use, and if the HTHS rating is high enough track use should be ok too. I personally would recommend penzzoil platnium euro since it is cheap and the specs are really good. On the other forum I was speaking to a user with mobil 1 and castrol (HTHS of 3.7 and 3.5 iirc) running well into the 270ºF oil temp range without issue. Just make sure you change your oil after hard track days, but you can do an oil analysis to make sure don't just go off of oil specs.

Originally Posted by Montaver

My M2C has 5K miles and is about to get started tracking in 2 weeks (finally!!) so I'd like to change the oil prior. It's had one change to date, the running in service at 1K.

Make sure you do oil changes at half the recommened interval to lengthen the life of your car.

[ZM2]

F87source

Interesting.

The Redline & Motul are about the same price, so maybe I'll try the Redline next time around. Altho, I was very impressed with the oil temp reduction with 300V, esp as someone who's battling engine temps, so I'll see if the Redline has the same impact.

As for coolant, I put this link up in a different post, but it's always an interesting read: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f...ech%20Info.pdf

Redline seems to think they have enough corrosion protection in their product, but it's unclear if that's blanketed with still using some glycol. What is clear is how much better water absorbs heat than glycol.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

F87source

Interesting.

The Redline & Motul are about the same price, so maybe I'll try the Redline next time around. Altho, I was very impressed with the oil temp reduction with 300V, esp as someone who's battling engine temps, so I'll see if the Redline has the same impact.

As for coolant, I put this link up in a different post, but it's always an interesting read: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f...ech%20Info.pdf

Redline seems to think they have enough corrosion protection in their product, but it's unclear if that's blanketed with still using some glycol. What is clear is how much better water absorbs heat than glycol.

Which redline are you talking about? Because it should be much cheaper than the 300v, and if you are talking about the motul xmax then I personally would just opt for penzzoil. Since I've seen another user pull his bearings at 100k km with heavy track use at 270ºF oil temps and no crazy wear using mobil 1 and castrol which have similar or lower HTHS ratings than penzzoil. The key is more frequent oil changes after track use so the additives dont break down too much.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Which redline are you talking about? Because it should be much cheaper than the 300v, and if you are talking about the motul xmax then I personally would just opt for penzzoil. Since I've seen another user pull his bearings at 100k km with heavy track use at 270ºF oil temps and no crazy wear using mobil 1 and castrol which have similar or lower HTHS ratings than penzzoil. The key is more frequent oil changes after track use so the additives dont break down too much.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KMS10OO..._DAN-EbE4D1PP3

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BORLDA..._JCN-Eb1VGRDX7

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KMS10OO..._DAN-EbE4D1PP3

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BORLDA..._JCN-Eb1VGRDX7

Both say unavailable to me, maybe because I'm in Canada.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Both say unavailable to me, maybe because I'm in Canada.

Gotcha. $111US for 8 liters of 300V, $51 for a gallon of Redline.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Gotcha. $111US for 8 liters of 300V, $51 for a gallon of Redline.

Woah yeah it's alot more. 300v is definitely better for the track but not suitable for the street. Redline should be better for all around and good for the track too with that super high hths rating.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Woah yeah it's alot more. 300v is definitely better for the track but not suitable for the street. Redline should be better for all around and good for the track too with that super high hths rating.

Yeah, they’re pretty much the same price, ~$13.50/L.

The 300V has been great, but I’m all for more additives if they help. With similar weight and HTHS you would think think the Redline will have similar lowering oil temp effects as 300V.

I’ll try it later this year once my 300V is done.