BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > M2 CS Price for the US: $83,600 (plus $995 Destination)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #881
///M2NYC15
Private First Class
United_States
74
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: M2 LBB LCI
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York City

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
That's a silly comparison; BMW sale numbers are not determined by the archaic and unbalanced Electoral College, it's majority rules..

It's also naive to believe that BMW can't sell 500 of the hottest car they've produced in a awhile.

They'll all be accounted for before they even hit the showrooms. Just watch..
YEA! Don't feed this troll. He is clearly hating on the better M2. Is it pricey? ABSOLUTELY! is it for everyone? NO! Will it outperform the previous M2's? YES!

I'm still on the fence as price is indeed a factor. Had my deposit down a year ago. We shall see.
Appreciate 1
Poochie9099.00
      12-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #882
10"
Colonel
10"'s Avatar
No_Country
4946
Rep
2,262
Posts

Drives: orange BMW 1M.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: world

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Below a couple of considerations about the 1M:
As always; you've stated things very nicely sir!!
__________________
don't read this. too late...
Appreciate 1
Artemis28911.50
      12-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #883
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Sorry but you are a fool if you really believe that statement.

I get it, you have a Comp etc. But to say that like the CS is not going to outperform it in every single category is crazy talk. (Downgrade) The engineers at M made the necessary tweaks etc to make this even faster and more gripping on the road and tack. Once the figures come out, you will see what no sense comment you made.

I have an OG M2 and I love it. I know the Comp out performs mines. But don't be sour and say the CS is "riced out" etc. The fact that this is the first CS with a manual is also a beautiful thing. If it is not in your budget, thats ok. No need to hate on the better M2 either.
I think outperforming it in every single category "might" be true for stock cars. I don't think the margin of performance difference is going to be much. As has been discussed many times here, a $550. flash tune and Cup2 tires on the M2C will probably eat the $85k CS for lunch. If a person wants the prestige and the CF bits then by all means get the CS. If we are talking about performance difference, there just isn't much there.
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:23 AM   #884
///M2NYC15
Private First Class
United_States
74
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: M2 LBB LCI
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York City

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think outperforming it in every single category "might" be true for stock cars. I don't think the margin of performance difference is going to be much. As has been discussed many times here, a $550. flash tune and Cup2 tires on the M2C will probably eat the $85k CS for lunch. If a person wants the prestige and the CF bits then by all means get the CS. If we are talking about performance difference, there just isn't much there.
I am absolutely referring to stock for stock.

But the same could be done for the CS as well. It will still have the advantages.
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:23 AM   #885
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
YEA! Don't feed this troll. He is clearly hating on the better M2. Is it pricey? ABSOLUTELY! is it for everyone? NO! Will it outperform the previous M2's? YES!
To avoid any misunderstanding, I trust that you're not referring to Poochie, passionate petrolhead.
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:25 AM   #886
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
I am absolutely referring to stock for stock.

But the same could be done for the CS as well. It will still have the advantages.
What advantages? The only real advantage is the adaptive suspension and this is not a real advantage since coilovers would be better for Motorsport.
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 11:27 AM   #887
///M2NYC15
Private First Class
United_States
74
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: M2 LBB LCI
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York City

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
To avoid any misunderstanding, I trust that you're not referring to Poochie, passionate petrolhead.
Not Poochie of course haha
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:31 AM   #888
///M2NYC15
Private First Class
United_States
74
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: M2 LBB LCI
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York City

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
What advantages? The only real advantage is the adaptive suspension and this is not a real advantage since coilovers would be better for Motorsport.
It would be true for coilovers. However, you do have a lower center of gravity with the carbonfiber roof etc. Basically, to get the Comp to CS level, you definitely have to put in some dough. I think the CS package overall, its just the better car. they both have the S55 so both have the same engine tuning potential etc. I am simply referring to the overall package of the M2CS. All the work has been done from factory and you dont have to worry about anything else really.

in the nurburgring this car is going to be at least 10 seconds faster. Watch.
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:36 AM   #889
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
9099
Rep
7,563
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
YEA! Don't feed this troll. He is clearly hating on the better M2. Is it pricey? ABSOLUTELY! is it for everyone? NO! Will it outperform the previous M2's? YES!
To avoid any misunderstanding, I trust that you're not referring to Poochie, passionate petrolhead.
Hey 🤨 I think was already implied in context.

I'm about spitballing the related M2 facts, never starting incendiary subjects.

If I veered off, I promise it was by accident.
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 11:37 AM   #890
alavigne
Private
80
Rep
73
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Let's go down the list since the people in the back can't hear:

The M2CS is heavier than the M2C. Downgrade.
The M2CS has adaptive suspension. Downgrade.
The M2CS has a ton of carbon fiber, still heavier than M2C. Rice.
The M2CS has carbon rotors. Downgrade, steel rotors stop better.
The M2CS has the same engine just different tune. An upgrade off the lot and the only factor making the M2CS faster off the showroom floor, but any C owner can flash their car to 500whp so...

So what makes the CS so much better? Because with what we know about it other than a hotter tune, it's worse.
Point 1 - I don't think point 1 is actually true.
Point 2 - claim that the adaptive suspension is a downgrade. I'm not sure that's really true. Perhaps you feel that an aftermarket setup is better? but, we're talking about stock.
Point 3, which repeats the incorrect assessment in point 1, is no longer relevant.
Point 4 - the carbon rotors are optional. And based on what I understand, the car is still lighter (than the M2C) when you option it with steel rotors.

So... when you consider all of that, your list is far less.... damning.
Appreciate 3
Poochie9099.00
MDuckie93.00
      12-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #891
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

I think people have different uses and expectations of cars. If you are a track/mountain road warrior and value function over form the CS doesn't bring much to the table. If you want a smooth ride over bumps, prestige and beautiful accessories straight from the factory then try for the CS and don't worry about what others think.
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #892
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Let's go down the list since the people in the back can't hear:

The M2CS is heavier than the M2C. Downgrade.
The M2CS has adaptive suspension. Downgrade.
The M2CS has a ton of carbon fiber, still heavier than M2C. Rice.
The M2CS has exactly the same brakes just carbon rotors. Downgrade, steel rotors stop better.
The M2CS has the same engine just different tune. An upgrade off the lot and the only factor making the M2CS faster off the showroom floor, but any C owner can flash their car to 500whp so...

So what makes the CS so much better? Because with what we know about it other than a hotter tune, it's worse.
Do you have an M2c, or does your dad have an M2c? This seems like school is out for Christmas break and playing on the internet.
Appreciate 4
Conissah1574.50
MDuckie93.00
Tornado1M1201.50
      12-18-2019, 11:51 AM   #893
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
9099
Rep
7,563
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alavigne View Post
Point 1 - I don't think point 1 is actually true.
Point 2 - claim that the adaptive suspension is a downgrade. I'm not sure that's really true. Perhaps you feel that an aftermarket setup is better? but, we're talking about stock.
Point 3, which repeats the incorrect assessment in point 1, is no longer relevant.
Point 4 - the carbon rotors are optional. And based on what I understand, the car is still lighter (than the M2C) when you option it with steel rotors.

So... when you consider all of that, your list is far less.... damning.
Point 1: Heavier cars are worse than lighter cars. That's true.

Point 2: Adaptive suspension is not for track use, it's for street only. Downgrade.

It's the adaptive suspension which makes the M2CS heavier than the M2C even with all the carbon fiber parts. As far as we know, you can't unoption the adaptive suspension.

Now, if you could buy an M2CS with standard struts and steel rotors? It would be an overall better car than a C, but if you can't remove the active suspension? It will always be an inferior car because to make it better than a standard C, you have to remove the only option which makes a CS special.
So you're saying BMW added Adaptive Suspension to their high-performing vehicle to "downgrade" it's performance.

Makes a lot sense..
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #894
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
9099
Rep
7,563
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
So you're saying BMW added Adaptive Suspension to their high-performing vehicle to "downgrade" it's performance.

Makes a lot sense..
Please list all BMW's made with active suspension that handle better than a $2500 set of M Performance coilovers that are on the M4 GTS.

I'll wait.
"Performance" is subjective but having dampers that can be electronically manipulated, based on the road surface, load and demand is always going to have an advantage over a set, static damper setup.

I would like to sit you down and bore you with all the pros of AS but based on your narrow-minded attitude, I could tell it would be a dead-end. So let just agree to disagree. No need to wait.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 12:02 PM   #895
btbossman
Banned
United_States
103
Rep
1,715
Posts

Drives: 2013 335xi M sport--2014 M6
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

As someone who just put the MP coil overs on their m2c, and has driven multiple thousands of miles in m3/4s including m4cs... the almost 3k it cost with install is a huge bargain, and a must have if you really care about your M2c... Makes the car feel 95% as precise as the Gt4 I test drove last weekend.
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 12:19 PM   #896
PLF69
Colonel
PLF69's Avatar
3763
Rep
2,700
Posts

Drives: 2023 M3
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Again, please give me an example of any BMW with adaptive suspension that handles better than an M4 GTS with a set of $2500 coilovers and I'll buy you a beer.
This point is valid, the optional M Perf suspension is really good, I was in shock when I test drove my friends M2 equiped with them vs my Dinan HAS M2, mine felt like a loose old car when I got back in it. A few days later I ordered a Ohlins suspension.

As for the M2cs I don't see anything a downgrade vs M2c, maybe not what some would have hoped for but no one is forced to buy it if they don't like it.

But I will say this, slap a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2 (oem M2cs tire) on an M2c and an OG M2 and you would be surprised of the results on a track. I bet they would M2c would be really close to M2cs.
__________________
Fun/HPDE: 2023 M3 6MT Individual Malachite
Past:2023 M4 CSL, 2022 M4C Vert, 2020 M340i, 2018 M2, 2015 M235i, 2008 135i 550whp
Daily: 2023 X5 45e
Daily/Family: 2021 Atlas Cross Sport 3.6
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 12:20 PM   #897
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

The BMW adaptive suspension is not really that great compared to the GM magnaride technology which Audi licensed.
I had a M235i with adaptive suspension. In some situations the computer would get it wrong. My M2C actually rides better at 85mph than my M235i. At higher speeds the dampers get really stiff on big bumps because the BMW adaptive suspension springs are soft. They do all the stiffening with the dampers.
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 12:24 PM   #898
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
I don't really have a stake in this argument...but I have always wondered if the active suspension in my F80 is broken. There's no appreciable difference in any of the modes, especially relative to the changes you get when changing the steering or throttle selections.

With that being said, I have never tracked the car, so it might be more apparent in those circumstances.

The adaptive suspension in the M2CS isn't a positive or negative, based upon how I have experienced it in the M3. Just my $.02...
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 1
      12-18-2019, 12:28 PM   #899
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to play. Coilovers have a number of benefits when it comes adjustment of ride height, rake, and corner balancing. Adjustable coilovers have the benefit of being able to dial in settings for a specific need. You can dial in optimal settings for a multitude of different tracks or road conditions.

However, those settings need to be continually set for the specific condition of the moment. Otherwise you aren't really using those coilovers to their fullest potential. I proper track setting is likely not going to provide optimal compliance for the trip to and from the track or around town.

An adaptive suspension in a CS model is likely going to give up the edge to a dialed in coilovers setup to a particular track. However, it would allow the user to spend zero time testing and dialing in settings for different tracks and conditions while proving a superior when compared to coilovers setup that hasn't been dialed in to the conditions.

I'm willing to bet very few folks have the time and means to dial in a coilovers setup, and choose to use their favorite forum as guidance.

This assumes you've matched the springs properly to your vehicle weight and tire selection. Don't forget to write down your street tire settings, track tire settings. Or do you swap springs between track outings and trips to/from work?
Appreciate 0
      12-18-2019, 12:33 PM   #900
PLF69
Colonel
PLF69's Avatar
3763
Rep
2,700
Posts

Drives: 2023 M3
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm going to play. Coilovers have a number of benefits when it comes adjustment of ride height, rake, and corner balancing. Adjustable coilovers have the benefit of being able to dial in settings for a specific need. You can dial in optimal settings for a multitude of different tracks or road conditions.

However, those settings need to be continually set for the specific condition of the moment. Otherwise you aren't really using those coilovers to their fullest potential. I proper track setting is likely not going to provide optimal compliance for the trip to and from the track or around town.

An adaptive suspension in a CS model is likely going to give up the edge to a dialed in coilovers setup to a particular track. However, it would allow the user to spend zero time testing and dialing in settings for different tracks and conditions while proving a superior when compared to coilovers setup that hasn't been dialed in to the conditions.

I'm willing to bet very few folks have the time and means to dial in a coilovers setup, and choose to use their favorite forum as guidance.

This assumes you've matched the springs properly to your vehicle weight and tire selection. Don't forget to write down your street tire settings, track tire settings. Or do you swap springs between track outings and trips to/from work?
No denying its a + for someone who will keep the car stock (wich mostly 99% of the M2cs will).

Lets say I'm in the 1%, I would just ad camber plates and track it as is. But in the first place I would not buy it because I get much better value with my M2 or an M2cs for trashing around a track like I do.

I see all these ppl arguing about the car like its supposed to be the holy grail of sports cars and meet all possible criteria they have. You are all wasting your time if you have not defined what are the most important criterias for yourself, afterall your going to drive and there is always a compromise to be made, be it on price, comfort or performance..

The reason ppl refer so often to Porsche is because they probably have the product that is the closest to the equilibrum of all this. Not supercar $, base cars are track capable and they are pretty compliant in most forms. BMW is first sporty/luxury well built street cars and then they make track capable versions of them.
__________________
Fun/HPDE: 2023 M3 6MT Individual Malachite
Past:2023 M4 CSL, 2022 M4C Vert, 2020 M340i, 2018 M2, 2015 M235i, 2008 135i 550whp
Daily: 2023 X5 45e
Daily/Family: 2021 Atlas Cross Sport 3.6
Appreciate 1
qnet676.00
      12-18-2019, 12:39 PM   #901
FrozenB7
Private
FrozenB7's Avatar
Canada
182
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: Alpina B7
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NOTL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
"Performance" is subjective but having dampers that can be electronically manipulated, based on the road surface, load and demand is always going to have an advantage over a set, static damper setup.

I would like to sit you down and bore you with all the pros of AS but based on your narrow-minded attitude, I could tell it would be a dead-end. So let just agree to disagree. No need to wait.
Just let it go. A lot of people aren’t going to see value in a car like this and none of the 500 people around the world who buy these are going to give a shit about their opinion. The CS will be a beautiful, awesome car to drive on the street; a few might see some track duty.

Perhaps not to the same degree, but this does remind me of the narrow body vs wide body argument in the 993 world. I have a relatively rare 1-owner low mile 2S. Most people would agree that the regular Carrera 2 is the faster car, and I hear about it from time to time. Is the 2S really worth 2-3 times more because of a wider contact patch and more precise steering? Nope...hips, rarity, and the last n/a RWD air cooled, that’s it.

The M2 CS isn’t an air cooled wide body, but it is an ultra-limited manual M car. Unsure how much longer we will have the opportunity to purchase things like that. The opportunity is here now, so I’m buying. Sure there are faster cars and cars offering more features or performance per dollar, but that’s not the value I see in this car.
Appreciate 1
Poochie9099.00
      12-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #902
medphysdave
Brigadier General
medphysdave's Avatar
United_States
4527
Rep
4,644
Posts

Drives: M2 CS | 85 of 592
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
No denying its a + for someone who will keep the car stock (wich mostly 99% of the M2cs will).

Lets say I'm in the 1%, I would just ad camber plates and track it as is. But in the first place I would not buy it because I get much better value with my M2 or an M2cs for trashing around a track like I do.
I agree with you. The CS is a Jack of all, Master of none. I'd say the same for the adaptive suspension. It's a jack of all, where the coilovers can be the master of whatever you want if you put in the time and effort. If you're willing to sacrifice more DD comfort for track specific performance, then go coilovers with stiffer springs. I did that for years. I've grown less tolerant of a jarring ride. With the right springs, shock settings, and bumpstops you can get a pretty nice DD ride. There is a point where the springs just become too much though. It's really the springs that govern the range that the compression and rebound needs to operate within.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST