[Artemis]

Originally Posted by kepler

Finally, I hate to break the news to folks, but it [718 GT4] is not a real GT car. It has a Carrera engine, not an engine developed by Porsche’s GT division.

Originally Posted by chris719

It [718 GT4] is a real "GT" car. Porsche gave it the GT label, so it is. They decide, not you. Just like how the OG M2 is a real M car but with an N55 engine. The GT cars and M cars are more about the handling and overall feel than just the engine. I am pretty sure Andreas Preuninger considers it a real GT car, so I'll take his word over yours.

Originally Posted by devo

I respectfully disagree. That's like saying a GTS is a "GT" car. It is not nor is a GT4 or Spyder; these two share the same engine. They do, however, share "GT" chassis components. In addition to the other attributes GT cars possess, GT4s have an integrated dry sump (aka wet sump) engine not a race bred dry sump like the GT3, GT2s, RSs and the Speedster have. Even turbos including the S have an integrated dry sump hence one major reason the Mezger (iconic and dry sump) equipped turbos through 2010 iircc are in high demand. Other engine internals upgrades are profound as well. AP will say what he needs to sell Porsches. Great guy I'm sure but he's still very loyal as he should be.

Originally Posted by bogeyman

Isn't a Porsche GT car developed by the GT division?

Originally Posted by devo

You got me in a box here...
I should clarify. Labeling a car a GTx certainly does not make it a GT car; i.e. GTS which is not developed by the GT Division. Whether a dry sump or integrated dry sump makes it a GT car is another matter of opinion. You certainly have a most valid point if a car is created by the GT division, then it is what it is. As illustrated in my signature, I am on the list for a Spyder, however, have a hard time considering that car a GT product.

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

Honestly it's because let's be honest the original M2 was not a true M car. The engine, side mirrors, and other things is what I and most think why it shouldn't be classified as one. On the other hand the M2C is what the M2 should have been from the very beginning. If you don't agree with this it's because you're in denial or you own an OG M2.

"1M is no real/true/pure BMW M car" - "GT4 is no real/true/pure Porsche GT car" - "M2 is no real/true/pure BMW M car":

• DV: If only you knew the power of the dark side. Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
• LS: He told me enough. He told me you killed him.
• DV: No. I am your father.
• LS: No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!
• DV: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
• LS: Nooooooo! Nooooooo!

[Hegge]

Sounds like the CS is more than just the M performance parts? Can someone elaborate?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Sounds like the CS is more than just the M performance parts? Can someone elaborate?

+1

Artemis are you able to post your impressions, yet? I'm especially interested in some additional details about your CF room comment.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Upon seeing the car, you'll notice straightaway parts that definitely do not feature in the M Performance Parts catalogue, developed specifically for this car. While BMW M could have saved the energy by sourcing those parts from the existing parts catalogue, they walked the extra mile. For example, if you stand on the CFRP M3/M4 roof or the one of the M2 M Performance Parts catalogue with that familiar CF weave look, beware not to 'sink' through it. On the newly developed M2 CS CFRP roof you can stand (sandwich-structured composite).

This reinforces the CS value point even more so. If you want a a CS (or any other limited production performance car) be prepared to pay up. You guys have the money so get what stirs your soul and makes you happy in the long term . An M3 has always been my dream car but I could not justify spending "that kind of money". For years I told myself , I can't afford an M3. But then...I read about the CS. And THEN I saw it in person and it was all over. lol. All the sudden I went from not being able to afford 74k to laying out 94k. I had to have it. Which makes me ponder...I think most of us buy cars like this based on emotion, not logical clear thinking.

[M3GymNut]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Sounds like the CS is more than just the M performance parts? Can someone elaborate?

It's gonna be the best CS to get compared to the M3CS and M4CS.

Now it's all a matter of waiting on official pricing.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by omasou

Artemis are you able to post your impressions, yet? I'm especially interested in some additional details about your CF room comment.

Sorry omasou (and all others who contacted me in the meantime), see my earlier message here.

As indicated before, I will share my thoughts at a later stage (after the official M2 CS release, i.e. later this Autumn after the trees have lost their leaves).

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

let's be honest the original M2 was not a true M car.

True or not true: the 'truth' is out there in the curves. Go explore.

[M3GymNut]

Originally Posted by Artemis

True or not true: the 'truth' is out there in the curves. Go explore.

Attachment 2149037
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Just can't let that go huh?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by dgm3

• Back seats cannot be folded anymore

Did you check that for sure, dgm3 ?

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Did you check that for sure, dgm3 ?

Read: They do fold, Artemis just can't share due to his vow of secrecy.

[devo]

Hips = M ?

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Upon seeing the car, you'll notice straightaway parts that definitely do not feature in the M Performance Parts catalogue, developed specifically for this car. While BMW M could have saved the energy by sourcing those parts from the existing parts catalogue, they walked the extra mile. For example, if you stand on the CFRP M3/M4 roof or the one of the M2 M Performance Parts catalogue with that familiar CF weave look, beware not to 'sink' through it. On the newly developed M2 CS CFRP roof you can stand (sandwich-structured composite).

And yet how strong the roof, hood are makes almost 0 difference in how the car drives.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

According to those seeing the car at the preview, the dash (fake leather) and door panel (bare plastic) remain the same as the comp.
I know with car like this one, many couldn't care less about the luxury touches. But really they misunderstand the car like this - the intended purpose of the CS is first a daily driver and then with maximized track-ability.
Remember the cabin is where you spend most of time, and good leather makes all the difference. This is something you really need to experience to know.

I agree. Most people here seem to value more the exterior cosmetics changes, I personally value more the inside. The connection to the car start with the feeling through the seats, steering wheel, gear lever /central console and pedals. Then the visual aspect of the dash board, doors panels contribute to the overall feeling.

In that respect the M2 CS carbon central console coupled with the alcantara trim looks and feels outstanding. Even better in my view (but many will disagree) is the removal of the armest, the armest being very annoying with the manual transmission. Then the fine grain Merino (?) leather is a great upgrade... unfortunately from a visual standpoint it does not blend well with the coarse aspect of the unchanged dashboard/door panel. An optional leather dashboard/top door trim with red stitching would have been a great addition.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

And yet how strong the roof, hood are makes almost 0 difference in how the car drives.

Hey, maybe you can play chess or chequers on it this time around.

[medphysdave]

At least you can jump out of the car when you get to work, jump up on the roof, and do a couple of fist pumps to show everyone how you won the race to work.

That would look pretty lame if your roof caves in mid pump.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Did you check that for sure, dgm3 ?

No, I just checked that the car was actually 450hp

The guy presenting the car heavily insisted on the non folding seats, believe in his mind it was a sign of additional sportiness (rigidity ?) compared to the M2C. Had no reason to doubt about what he was saying and to be honest couldn't care less about the folding seats. I was mainly interested in the things which could really improve the driving experience... but since there were not many I admit I also spent quite some time on the cosmetics.

Retrospectively I do not exclude that this event was organized to get customer feedback and that minor tweaks are still possible.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

At least you can jump out of the car when you get to work, jump up on the roof, and do a couple of fist pumps to show everyone how you won the race to work.
That would look pretty lame if your roof caves in mid pump.

So True! Who says it's not functional!! Pshhh

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

At least you can jump out of the car when you get to work, jump up on the roof, and do a couple of fist pumps to show everyone how you won the race to work.
That would look pretty lame if your roof caves in mid pump.

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

So True! Who says it's not functional!! Pshhh

Chess or chequers, you'll see.

BMW CFRP production images:

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Upon seeing the car, you'll notice straightaway parts that definitely do not feature in the M Performance Parts catalogue, developed specifically for this car. While BMW M could have saved the energy by sourcing those parts from the existing parts catalogue, they walked the extra mile. For example, if you stand on the CFRP M3/M4 roof or the one of the M2 M Performance Parts catalogue with that familiar CF weave look, beware not to 'sink' through it. On the newly developed M2 CS CFRP roof you can stand (sandwich-structured composite).

Plastic parts are not hard to make or tweak in NX, CATIA, Solidworks, etc. I'm not saying they didn't put any effort in, but it's not even in the same realm as, say, changing the engine or even suspension components in the car.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by devo

I respectfully disagree. That's like saying a GTS is a "GT" car. It is not nor is a GT4 or Spyder; these two share the same wet sump (integrated dry) engine. They do, however, share "GT" chassis components. In addition to the other attributes GT cars possess, GT4s have an integrated dry sump (aka wet sump) engine not a race bred dry sump like the GT3, GT2s, RSs and the Speedster have. Even turbos including the S have an integrated dry sump hence one major reason the Mezger (iconic and dry sump) equipped turbos through 2010 iircc are in high demand. Other engine internals upgrades are profound as well. AP will say what he needs to sell Porsches. Great guy I'm sure but he's still very loyal as he should be.

I'm not sure you understand. A GTS is not supposed to be a GT model and no one said it was. The GT4 is a true GT model, full stop. You can come up with your own arbitrary definitions as you please.

[devo]

Originally Posted by chris719

I'm not sure you understand. A GTS is not supposed to be a GT model and no one said it was. The GT4 is a true GT model, full stop. You can come up with your own arbitrary definitions as you please.

Originally Posted by chris719

It is a real "GT" car. Porsche gave it the GT label, so it is. They decide, not you. Just like how the OG M2 is a real M car but with an N55 engine.

I read your reply above as you were saying a car labeled GTx was a GT car. Porsche says it's a GT car then it is. It still has a pedestrian engine which lacks racing pedigree. There was nothing arbitrary about my reply.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by devo

I read your reply above as you were saying a car labeled GTx was a GT car. Porsche says it's a GT car then it is. It still has a pedestrian engine which lacks racing pedigree. There was nothing arbitrary about my reply.

The badge is like a birth certificate.

Regardless of the badge, it's all about the DNA and legitimate expectations about the bloodline.

E30 M3 SPORT EVO: 175kW - 238hp - 0-100km/h: 6.5s | F87 M2 CS: 331kw - 450hp - 0-100km/h: 4.0s