[robopp]

Originally Posted by Davil

Hate to burst his bubble but no way on earth there will be a manual CS in the G series. Of course no DCT either.

G series M3/4 is supremely capable but too refined for me. The G series M2 will carry on this recipe no doubt as that's what most people want.

I find it takes away from the joy of driving. But maybe that's me? What I love most about F87 platform is that it's not that refined. It's an angry little terrier that's fun at all speeds. I also have no intention of ever selling it, so the investment aspect means nothing to me.

If you get enjoyment from stats, racetrack times achieved by professional drivers, comfort & refinement over a raw connection then the G series will be better.

Why do you say that? There wasn't an F80 manual CS, but there was a F87 manual CS. I could see them bumping the power to G80 M3 manual levels for the G87 manual CS. Of course there won't be a DCT G87. We agree on that point.

[AlpsRider]

I recently drove a G80 stick in the Twisties. It was fast when revved up but it felt heavy and lifeless in the Twisties compared to my M2C.

The proof will be in the pudding with the G87. If they manage to coverup the extra weight and wheelbase length then maybe it will still be fun. Don't forget that a light tune on an M2C will still blow the pants off of a G87. I'll wait and drive one, it's the only way to know if the car will spin my prop.
Asthetically the G87 hasn't won me over and that's not likely to change.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by Davil

Hate to burst his bubble but no way on earth there will be a manual CS in the G series. Of course no DCT either.

G series M3/4 is supremely capable but too refined for me. The G series M2 will carry on this recipe no doubt as that's what most people want.

I find it takes away from the joy of driving. But maybe that's me? What I love most about F87 platform is that it's not that refined. It's an angry little terrier that's fun at all speeds. I also have no intention of ever selling it, so the investment aspect means nothing to me.

If you get enjoyment from stats, racetrack times achieved by professional drivers, comfort & refinement over a raw connection then the G series will be better.

This is my opinion exactly after driving a g80 back to back to f87, the g is amazing and was very fast and grippy and super capable on the track, the m2 was was more fun though and a more connected experience (which is int day and age is getting rarer and rarer). There were a few people that were at that track that day that agreed with me and they did not have their own m2 so it confirmed to me that my biased did not come into place.

The g87 will be a great car though, just like the g80 is but it will be different. The s58 is excellent and overall a better engine than the s55 but new car more refinement and that could take some joy away. There are a lot of things we already know about the g87 that are not great - its uglier than the f87 by a large margin, space in back sucks (this matters for some of us), heavier (won’t really matter when you driving it), and to me the worst of all is the new digital tach megatron widescreen imax thx thing which I absolutly hate and has no place in a car like the m2 (or m3/4 for that matter).

I like chris harris and respect his opinion and actually agree with it, f87 prices overall will drop and even more so if the g87 is that good and it will probably be

[IcewaterPete]

G87: No DCT, no traditional tach and speedo. I rest my case.

For those with doubts...Is the E30, E46 M3 or F87 M2 faster, better handling, etc. than the G platform? No. Are they more engaging and fun to drive? Yes. Let the “I have the newest” crowd do their thing and post all of their repetitive, mindless videos. I’ll be out enjoying my drive!

[Jimjamz]

I can see myself adding a last-of-its-kind manual G87 to go along with the last-of its-kind DCT F87 CS. At that point I'll be done and everyone else can get off my lawn.

[ChiTownM]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I can see myself adding a last-of-its-kind manual G87 to go along with the last-of its-kind DCT F87 CS. At that point I'll be done and everyone else can get off my lawn.

You will not be done - since I have been there and done that. I was never going to buy the M2 and then BMW put out the CS and I was done supposedly. And I kept my e92. But that 50 Jahre M3 caught my attention and here we go again. That would result in a DCT, a Manual and a ZF Automatic car and I will finally be done….right!?!?! Happy Friday.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

In the August Top Gear magazine Chris Harris has an interesting article on why he got his M2 CS and the possibility that a new RWD M2 manual may be better.

He raises some interesting points.

"The reasons why people bought the car were, I think, as follows. Many people thought it sounded like a return to a classic BMW recipe of compact dimensions and good power – in other words it was a car they would drive. Others merely saw it as an investment and were much more interested in how many were being built. The one thing both groups had in common was their buying decision was supported by a hunch that the F87 M2 CS was the last of its type. This is the crux of people's indecision around whether to buy or sell. In the case of the M2, BMW has just teased a new M2, which will be 2WD and available as a manual. Both are attributes we didn't necessarily think would be available on the new car. The 'not to be repeated' comfort blanket has just been ripped from under us. Like everyone else, I'm now thinking, "Ah, there will be another M2 CS and it will be faster and better – and my car will be worth zilch".

Apple news article attached: https://apple.news/AM5CjVeE9QS-1toXLwJE8dQ

Interestingly - I bought it for the first reason plus I loved the OG M2 design and CS embellishments and the fact it was the first gen M2. The last point can't be repeated in the G87, and the second is very subjective - though it's fair to say the F87 design was generally loved by most - again something that can't be taken for granted as improving in the G87.

If you had to choose, and a new M2 C or CS RWD manual emerged that somehow drives better than the F87 CS - would you flip your existing car for it?

EVO test drove the prototype and gave it 4.5 stars and said it was kind of soft and more mature compared to the CS. And of the higher HP models are likely to be automatics (Similar to the M4 CSL, and likely won't top the M4 CSL in power to weight).

So you are left to basically compare the M2 CS to the new M2. If the new M2 doesn't top it dynamically speaking and excitement wise, then you are left with the M2 CS being the top dog with a manual.

I think there is a risk in just assuming the next CS or CSL will be a manual. I think the best automatic rear drive car to buy will be the M4 CSL and the top manual car will be any special M2 that has a manual. If the the regular M2C is the top manual car, then the best M2 with a manual will still likely be the prior generation CS.

I really believe the top S58 RWD coupe is going to be the M4 CSL (Which is why i'm buying one). I think all the next generation M2s are going to be too close to their M4 counterpart, but with less power and similar weight. I think the CS tune of the S55 has more character to it then the comp tune of the S58 if they are equal in power and torque (Which they effectively are with a manual transmission, its 444hp 406 tq to 473 hp 406 tq, so 29hp diff).

I believe anyone selling an F87 M2 CS now expecting a better G87 M2 CS, will be buying an F87 back in about 5 years but for much more money.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Davil

Hate to burst his bubble but no way on earth there will be a manual CS in the G series. Of course no DCT either.

G series M3/4 is supremely capable but too refined for me. The G series M2 will carry on this recipe no doubt as that's what most people want.

I find it takes away from the joy of driving. But maybe that's me? What I love most about F87 platform is that it's not that refined. It's an angry little terrier that's fun at all speeds. I also have no intention of ever selling it, so the investment aspect means nothing to me.

If you get enjoyment from stats, racetrack times achieved by professional drivers, comfort & refinement over a raw connection then the G series will be better.

The only way there will be a new manual CS/CSL in the G series M2 is if BMW developed a new manual for the 3.0 CSL, and decides to carry it over to a series production version of the M2. If they just really use the regular manual from an m3/m4 in the 3.0 CSL (because there are so few, deal with any failures) or bring out an older manual (like the f10 M5 gearbox) for that car, then you won't see a high HP G series m2 manual.

But if they made a new manual transmission, I could see them offering it once the G series M3/M4 is out of production. If they do that, and offer it in an M2, that will be a very special car that everyone will want one of. That will likely be the defacto car to have and keep.

We'll know in a few months if thats the case, everyone get your deposits ready.

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by ChiTownM

You will not be done - since I have been there and done that. I was never going to buy the M2 and then BMW put out the CS and I was done supposedly. And I kept my e92. But that 50 Jahre M3 caught my attention and here we go again. That would result in a DCT, a Manual and a ZF Automatic car and I will finally be done….right!?!?! Happy Friday.

ROFL! Yep, we all have a sickness! But it’s a good one.

Like my wife says “You don’t have a car problem you have a garage problem”. I just need more space!

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Like my wife says "You don't have a car problem you have a garage problem". I just need more space!

She's a wise woman. I'd I could fit in another car or two easily we'd quickly expand

[jessief29812]

I highly doubt the G87 will win a COTY award … and if it does kudos to it. I love my M2CS and plan to keep it forever. Idk why people are treating this like a damm rolls Royce. It's a fun car, drive it people. Stop worrying so much because life is short and you worked hard to enjoy the amazing machine.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

The things I care about for a weekend car are not getting better with technology. I'd say the F87 CS is at and probably beyond the straight line speed I need and I will probably never track it.

It's no lightweight but it's not much heavier than an E46 M3, which is the pinnacle of BMW driving and design for me.

Maybe I'll pick up a used G87 manual if demand wanes in 5 years when a subsequent EV/hybrid M2 debuts with 600+ HP.

I'm not selling the F87, and I'm not worried about resale. Worst case it drops in value and I keep it and drive the hell out of it. Best case, I pass down an extremely valuable car to my son in 15-20 years.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I think the F87 CS is like wine. There are good, no; great wines out there. But once in a while, you get one that will be known as the best for generations, even though, in those following generations, there might be much better wines, that despite being better, come nowhere close in stature.

Such is the harmony that is encapsulated in the F87 CS that no matter how much better will the future generations be, none will ever catch up to this beauty in stature.

I've driven mine very little; every time I drive it, it's like the first time. One day, by 2050s 😂, my son will enjoy it. And hopefully he'll keep it for his children.

I bought the love of the car, not just a car

[jessief29812]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I think the F87 CS is like wine. There are good, no; great wines out there. But once in a while, you get one that will be known as the best for generations, even though, in those following generations, there might be much better wines, that despite being better, come nowhere close in stature.

Such is the harmony that is encapsulated in the F87 CS that no matter how much better will the future generations be, none will ever catch up to this beauty in stature.

I've driven mine very little; every time I drive it, it's like the first time. One day, by 2050s 😂, my son will enjoy it. And hopefully he'll keep it for his children.

I bought the love of the car, not just a car

Drive it every chance you get! You seriously never know when the last time you'll get too.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by jessief29812

Drive it every chance you get! You seriously never know when the last time you'll get too.

Oddly enough, I do in a way. I had part of my brain removed when my son was just over a year old. I was given 5% chance of survival through the surgery, let alone this long - he's 21 now.

We enjoy driving it through the hills. He's a really good driver, so I enjoy sitting in as a passenger when he drives.

In a way, I got the car for him, not myself.

[jessief29812]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Oddly enough, I do in a way. I had part of my brain removed when my son was just over a year old. I was given 5% chance of survival through the surgery, let alone this long - he's 21 now.

We enjoy driving it through the hills. He's a really good driver, so I enjoy sitting in as a passenger when he drives.

In a way, I got the car for him, not myself.

That's beautiful 😢 i hope it creates a great bond between you both! Hope to have the same with my kid one day! I just had a little girl about a week ago. Being a dad is the best thing that has ever happened to me

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by jessief29812

That's beautiful 😢 i hope it creates a great bond between you both! Hope to have the same with my kid one day! I just had a little girl about a week ago. Being a dad is the best thing that has ever happened to me

Ain't it just.

You're in for a treat, now you will learn how to be selfless. I bet she melts your heart every time you look at her. It will be the same even when she reaches 60, she's your little girl forever.

I always say, I wasn't a man until I became a father

Here he is; my, not so little, boy - wouldn't be appropriate not to share a little M2 CS LOL

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Oddly enough, I do in a way. I had part of my brain removed when my son was just over a year old. I was given 5% chance of survival through the surgery, let alone this long - he's 21 now.

We enjoy driving it through the hills. He's a really good driver, so I enjoy sitting in as a passenger when he drives.

In a way, I got the car for him, not myself.

This warms the heart. Thank goodness you're healthy!

Son number 1 caught my car passion early and has owned a Miata, a 944S and now an 88 911 among other cars and trucks. We recently went to our 2nd Porsche Parade in our separate 911's after months of planning and coordinating calendars and schedules. It's really about spending time together, as I'm sure you understand.

Unfortunately he came down with covid the first night and rightly decided to go home immediately. I caught it the 2nd night and limped home myself the next day.

Of course we were both disappointed about missing out on the Parade and of course about getting covid, but mostly about not being able to spend 5 days together.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by NYNick

In a way, I got the car for him, not myself.

This warms the heart. Thank goodness you're healthy!

Son number 1 caught my car passion early and has owned a Miata, a 944S and now an 88 911 among other cars and trucks. We recently went to our 2nd Porsche Parade in our separate 911's after months of planning and coordinating calendars and schedules. It's really about spending time together, as I'm sure you understand.

Unfortunately he came down with covid the first night and rightly decided to go home immediately. I caught it the 2nd night and limped home myself the next day.

Of course we were both disappointed about missing out on the Parade and of course about getting covid, but mostly about not being able to spend 5 days together.

It gives you more reason to look forward to the next parade. I hope you're both well now and planning the next trip together already.

Aria and I test drove a 911 turbo few days ago. I can't say either of us left dissatisfied. But the M2 CS is something else.

Porsche is a stallion whereas the CS is a wild horse, rough and rugged, yet steady and dependable. Porsche cuts through corners like a surgical scalpel; the CS like a butcher's knife - I like them both.

Now that I've missed out on the M4CSL, I'm thinking a 911 GTS would be a healthy addition to the growing clan

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

It gives you more reason to look forward to the next parade. I hope you're both well now and planning the next trip together already.

Aria and I test drove a 911 turbo few days ago. I can't say either of us left dissatisfied. But the M2 CS is something else.

Porsche is a stallion whereas the CS is a wild horse, rough and rugged, yet steady and dependable. Porsche cuts through corners like a surgical scalpel; the CS like a butcher's knife - I like them both.

Now that I've missed out on the M4CSL, I'm thinking a 911 GTS would be a healthy addition to the growing clan

My last "new" Porsche was a 2009 911 Turbo Cab. I no longer buy new Porsches. There came a point in time for me where owning a car that is so much more capable than the road allows, it felt like a waste of time and money.

I only drive an old air cooled 911 now. Surprisingly, it fits your description of the CS. "..rough and rugged, yet steady and dependable." I would add they both are "a little dangerous" too.

Nothing like an air cooled 911. I think the same can be said of the M2CS, at least to my knowledge.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by NYNick

My last "new" Porsche was a 2009 911 Turbo Cab. I no longer buy new Porsches. There came a point in time for me where owning a car that is so much more capable than the road allows, it felt like a waste of time and money.

I only drive an old air cooled 911 now. Surprisingly, it fits your description of the CS. "..rough and rugged, yet steady and dependable." I would add they both are "a little dangerous" too.

Nothing like an air cooled 911. I think the same can be said of the M2CS, at least to my knowledge.

I have a dear friend who says exactly the same thing. He has two Porsches and buying a third. Only one isn't air-cooled.

[Davil]

So approx 250kg (550lbs) heavier than F87 CS. Good preliminary review for the car though.

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by NYNick

My last "new" Porsche was a 2009 911 Turbo Cab. I no longer buy new Porsches. There came a point in time for me where owning a car that is so much more capable than the road allows, it felt like a waste of time and money.

I only drive an old air cooled 911 now. Surprisingly, it fits your description of the CS. "..rough and rugged, yet steady and dependable." I would add they both are "a little dangerous" too.

Nothing like an air cooled 911. I think the same can be said of the M2CS, at least to my knowledge.

I got rid of my M2C and went Porsche. Got priced out of a 992 GT3 with weekly increasing ADM's. Decided to get that car I always dreamed of when I was a poor student. Found a decent mileage, good condition 997.1 GT3 that I'm not afraid to drive. I'm almost done with most preventative maintenance so it should be problem free (knock on wood) for many more years.

This old hooptie, as my wife affectionately refers to it, is a absolute joy to drive. I always find myself at no lower than 4k rpm haha. And after I installed a Sharkwerks center bypass, the noises are even more orgasmic.

My next car? Air cooled 911. Very necessary.