[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Besides drift mode that the RS will have, how else does Ford's awd system trump xdrive?

It doesn't. Just turn traction off on the xDrive and you will have drift mode too.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the Focus RS interior, aside from the fantastic looking seats, looks terrible!! It looks like a late 80s/early 90s korean boombox cd player!!!
[/IMG]

Note that I didn't mention the Focus RS interior as the benchmark for Detroit's newfound ability to make a proper interior (I listed the new Camaro 2SS).

The RS interior is indeed a design atrocity, but torque vectoring AWD with a 6MT! Where can you get that at any price point now that the S4 ditched the manual? Carrera4 for $100k+ is the only one I know of.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Note that I didn't mention the Focus RS interior as the benchmark for Detroit's newfound ability to make a proper interior (I listed the new Camaro 2SS).

The RS interior is indeed a design atrocity, but torque vectoring AWD with a 6MT! Where can you get that at any price point now that the S4 ditched the manual? Carrera4 for $100k+ is the only one I know of.

STI

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

STI

Ah yes, can't believe I forgot the car the RS is meant to compete with.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Note that I didn't mention the Focus RS interior as the benchmark for Detroit's newfound ability to make a proper interior (I listed the new Camaro 2SS).

The RS interior is indeed a design atrocity, but torque vectoring AWD with a 6MT! Where can you get that at any price point now that the S4 ditched the manual? Carrera4 for $100k+ is the only one I know of.

Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STI for sure....

i still haven't driven a more fun AWD car than the Evo......old but still amazing to drive. You should also remember that the AWD systems on the Evo and STI are real center diff systems not the Haldex-like system that's on the Focus RS. I don't think any BMW x-drive car even comes close to any of these 3 cars.

I'm a big fan of the Focus RS......don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out the shite interior, that's all.

[W///]

The Evo is going away too, so there goes another one.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STI for sure....

I left out the Evo because I thought I read an article where the last one just rolled off the assembly line. Shame, the automotive world is a less cool place without the Evo

My bucket list of manual transmission cars to own before we're all driving government-mandated EVs is growing faster than I can reasonably acquire them:
-GTI
-M-car
-Cayman GTS
-Midsize 4x4 pickup (Tacoma/Frontier thankfully still offer a manual)
-Corvette
-Miata or S2000
-Something diesel (besides a Ram 2500)
-A rally hatch (RS/STi if it ever regains the hatchback)

Of that list, I'm not sure which one will be the first to abandon the MT (because I'd try to go after that one first). Probably the pickup, but maybe BMW M?

And that, folks, is how one ends up cross-shopping a Focus RS with an M2 and a Tacoma.

[W///]

That's a great list. I answered in bold.

Needless to say, I'll be shedding a tear when the MT goes away for any of the items you listed. As you can see from the list, not all were good transmissions. I mean how good is a rental Nissan diesel pickup truck going to be? Didn't matter, I still enjoyed having 3 pedals.

SAVE THE MANUALS

Originally Posted by the_phew

I left out the Evo because I thought I read an article where the last one just rolled off the assembly line. Shame, the automotive world is a less cool place without the Evo

My bucket list of manual transmission cars to own before we're all driving government-mandated EVs is growing faster than I can reasonably acquire them:
-GTI
-M-car driven countless. Love them
-Cayman GTS - drove it in the base, S and GT4. Excellent
-Midsize 4x4 pickup (Tacoma/Frontier thankfully still offer a manual) drove a Nissan pickup truck in South Africa. Good fun
-Corvette
-Miata or S2000 - epic, drove on both. So direct
-Something diesel (besides a Ram 2500) - Nissan pickup truck, countless 1er diesels in Europe as well as an F25 X3 diesel with 5MT
-A rally hatch (RS/STi if it ever regains the hatchback)

Of that list, I'm not sure which one will be the first to abandon the MT (because I'd try to go after that one first). Probably the pickup, but maybe BMW M?

And that, folks, is how one ends up cross-shopping a Focus RS with an M2 and a Tacoma.

[Advevo]

You can t compare these 2 cars.

When you have driven evo s and subaru s. You should buy an Focus RS next to you're M2.

You buy an M car for RWD fun with an LSD on the rear!

You buy an STI Evo Focus RS for some cheap AWD fun!

You give the wife some kind of Family car an SUV or a Station.

Then you have the perfect garage!

I love some sliding in an AWD car with proper diffs and a manual handbrake. But i also love some rear drive tailout fun on a RaceTrack.

[Harry Da Hamster]

Civic Type R lapped Nordschleife ~8 seconds quicker than the M2. I wonder how quick the Ford Focus RS will be?

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by FNG

Civic Type R lapped Nordschleife ~8 seconds quicker than the M2. I wonder how quick the Ford Focus RS will be?

That's also faster than the M4.

Wasn't that civic nodded a little bit though? R comp tires and some other stuff?

[Harry Da Hamster]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

That's also faster than the M4.

Wasn't that civic nodded a little bit though? R comp tires and some other stuff?

Pulled from R&T website: Roll cage was added for safety. A/C, stereo, and front passenger seat removed, to offset the weight of a full roll cage.

[SGL]

Originally Posted by FNG

Civic Type R lapped Nordschleife ~8 seconds quicker than the M2. I wonder how quick the Ford Focus RS will be?

So sick of hearing about the Civic Type-R lapping that fast. I was at the track this weekend and mentioned the M2 and first thing the person said was, "Didn't the Civic Type-R lap the ring faster" Honda built that car to go up against the Renault Megane rs and the Seat Leon Cupra 280, and when Honda says that the added cage and stripped interior was for safety and keep the car the same weight as it will be sold is a bunch of marketing BS. Throw on top of that the fact that it was running special track tires from a "Major European tire manufacturer" and you have a purpose built track car made to get the FWD record.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by ScottGregory

So sick of hearing about the Civic Type-R lapping that fast. I was at the track this weekend and mentioned the M2 and first thing the person said was, "Didn't the Civic Type-R lap the ring faster" Honda built that car to go up against the Renault Megane rs and the Seat Leon Cupra 280, and when Honda says that the added cage and stripped interior was for safety and keep the car the same weight as it will be sold is a bunch of marketing BS. Throw on top of that the fact that it was running special track tires from a "Major European tire manufacturer" and you have a purpose built track car made to get the FWD record.

Why does everyone get so mad about this. :

[Harry Da Hamster]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Why does everyone get so mad about this. :

cause the roll cage made the Civic Type R 8 seconds quicker

[kovsky]

Hmm Civic type R time is fantastic but race compound tires will give you a second a mile improvements so for me it's a meaningless number. Also, civic.

[PackPride85]

Anyone who says adding a full roll cage doesn't make the chassis stiffer is an idiot. That may have not been the purpose of Honda using it, but it sure as hell made that thing much tighter than any production type R will ever be.

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Why does everyone get so mad about this. :

Because it's bogus. The production car won't be close to that car. That was a press grab that Honda is letting the Internet run away with to hopefully capture sales.

Even after it comes out idiots will still think the production car is faster when it's not.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

Because it's bogus. The production car won't be close to that car. That was a press grab that Honda is letting the Internet run away with to hopefully capture sales.

Even after it comes out idiots will still think the production car is faster when it's not.

You got to respect the fact that Honda actually wants a fast time for the Type R though. They did what they could to make the car as fast as possible during develoment and maybe even appear a bit faster within reason during testing.

While the BMW guys are like "lets make the purest BMW in years, but lets not design it or test it to beat 7:52".

[Spook410]

Official lap times are only interesting when they are done with something very close to the production model.

That being said, lap times have limited relevance to how I'm going to apply the vehicle. There are a number of cars that are fast enough, have enough grip, good enough brakes, and offer chassis dynamics beyond what I can sanely apply. You can rank them from low cost to high, most luxurious to least, longer, shorter, whatever. In the end you choose what offers you the balance of characteristics you want.

And if you find yourself getting drawn into discussions of neener neener lap time, I suggest you remember that a car is a collection of attributes and you, with your keenly analytical mind, have weighed these to conclude what is a personal right choice.

[Cope]

I love how defensive some people get when they hear a civic is faster. I hope I'm not alone when I say ring times have very little to do with my car shopping decisions.

[the_phew]

If any Civic owner razzes an M2 owner about their car being faster for half the price, just say "an $8k sport bike is faster than both our cars" and shrug.