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      01-25-2020, 11:50 AM   #1299
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I wouldn't be surprised if BMW pumps out more than 2200 CS models. It wouldn't be the first time that the increased production goals on a car.
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      01-25-2020, 12:16 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think people are getting the M2C for 10% off in some US locals. That would be a base price if $53,100. before tax and license. So that would be about a $30k Delta.
Which US Locals is this?
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      01-25-2020, 12:42 PM   #1301
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Well there's this thread. I think there are some still available.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1687092

Then there's this group buy thread.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1683816

I managed 5% off but I bought my M2C in September 2018!
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      01-25-2020, 04:16 PM   #1302
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
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Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
I'd wager in the first 6 months or so in the US it will be impossible... if for some reason allocations don't sell out right away, then maybe that will become true. From what I can tell everything in my area is sold out. I've talked to three dealerships in about a 200 mile radius and there are 2-3 people on waitlist (and they turned away others in some cases) for each allocation expected at this point. Not any negotiating happening in that environment.
Time will tell how the demand is for the CS. All of the sporty 2 series starting with the M235i then the M2 and then on to the M2 Competition were all launched with great fan fair and proceeded to have a short supply for at least 6 months. Many dealers were demanding prices over MSRP only to offer discounts later on. Now the CS is launched.... we'll see what happens.
You're correct, all initially 2 series model lineage all had a initial high demand, when they were now introduce to the market.

The M235i, in early 2014, was marked-up because as I was told by my dealer; it's a "niche" model..

And the M2, I remember I was blowed away by it's $51,700 base price, which was the BMW bargain of the decade IMO but the dealer had only one, on the showroom floor, with a few cosmetic bits, proudly adorning a $65,000 price tag.. As if

I suspect the M2 CS will sell out for sticker because of the limited units. There are a lot of people that believe that this model would recreate the supple/demand jackpot, like what happen with the 1M.

Who knows, maybe it will.. :

I doubt the dealer's will discount the CS much, if any, when there is only 500 available, in the whole country of 325 million people.

To be honest, I like it and although it a lavish expense, if I could of swing it, I would throw my hat in the ring, to get me one.
There is no logic to this being similar to the 1M when it comes to depreciation. The 1M was similar to nothing and last if hydraulic steering. The m2cs is similar to other m2 vehicles and last of nothing anyone cares about (DCT).
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      01-25-2020, 05:43 PM   #1303
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There is no logic to this being similar to the 1M when it comes to depreciation. The 1M was similar to nothing and last if hydraulic steering. The m2cs is similar to other m2 vehicles and last of nothing anyone cares about (DCT).
I care about DCT. By the way, the M2 CS is rumored to be the M's last DCT. There will be a manual in G Series M2/M3/M4 but no DCT just ZF8 automatic.
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      01-25-2020, 10:30 PM   #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
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Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
I'd wager in the first 6 months or so in the US it will be impossible... if for some reason allocations don't sell out right away, then maybe that will become true. From what I can tell everything in my area is sold out. I've talked to three dealerships in about a 200 mile radius and there are 2-3 people on waitlist (and they turned away others in some cases) for each allocation expected at this point. Not any negotiating happening in that environment.
Time will tell how the demand is for the CS. All of the sporty 2 series starting with the M235i then the M2 and then on to the M2 Competition were all launched with great fan fair and proceeded to have a short supply for at least 6 months. Many dealers were demanding prices over MSRP only to offer discounts later on. Now the CS is launched.... we'll see what happens.
You're correct, all initially 2 series model lineage all had a initial high demand, when they were now introduce to the market.

The M235i, in early 2014, was marked-up because as I was told by my dealer; it's a "niche" model..

And the M2, I remember I was blowed away by it's $51,700 base price, which was the BMW bargain of the decade IMO but the dealer had only one, on the showroom floor, with a few cosmetic bits, proudly adorning a $65,000 price tag.. As if

I suspect the M2 CS will sell out for sticker because of the limited units. There are a lot of people that believe that this model would recreate the supple/demand jackpot, like what happen with the 1M.

Who knows, maybe it will.. :

I doubt the dealer's will discount the CS much, if any, when there is only 500 available, in the whole country of 325 million people.

To be honest, I like it and although it a lavish expense, if I could of swing it, I would throw my hat in the ring, to get me one.
There is no logic to this being similar to the 1M when it comes to depreciation. The 1M was similar to nothing and last if hydraulic steering. The m2cs is similar to other m2 vehicles and last of nothing anyone cares about (DCT).

I was making an assumption that the CS would retain "classic" status and the reasons I juxtapose both vehicles is because they're are limited-production, highly sorted out vehicles, than edges on the end of era to the F-series generation, before they start a new one - for better or worst.

I know the only two vehicles in BMWs history that actually appreciated in value was the Z8 & 1M. Hard to say if the M2 CS would retain the same esteem but I believe it has a decent chance.
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      01-25-2020, 11:04 PM   #1305
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I was making an assumption that the CS would retain "classic" status and the reasons I juxtapose both vehicles is because they're are limited-production, highly sorted out vehicles, than edges on the end of era of the F-series generation, before they start a new one - for better or worst.

I know the only two vehicles in BMWs history that actually appreciated in value was the Z8 & 1M. Hard to say if the M2 CS would retain the same esteem but I believe it has a decent chance.
I think Poochie is right 100%. I have a feeling that the G87 M2 is not going to turn out as well as the F87 M2. The reasons are endless: it will be bigger in length, more weight, the look won't be as good with the grille, production not in mother country, no DCT, potential weak engine to avoid stepping on toes of M3/M4.

Whereas limited production should help the CS. Plus I can't see the G87 base M2 being that more powerful than the F87 CS. The G87 CS may but that is probably not coming out until 2025 or so.
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      01-25-2020, 11:45 PM   #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
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Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
I'd wager in the first 6 months or so in the US it will be impossible... if for some reason allocations don't sell out right away, then maybe that will become true. From what I can tell everything in my area is sold out. I've talked to three dealerships in about a 200 mile radius and there are 2-3 people on waitlist (and they turned away others in some cases) for each allocation expected at this point. Not any negotiating happening in that environment.
Time will tell how the demand is for the CS. All of the sporty 2 series starting with the M235i then the M2 and then on to the M2 Competition were all launched with great fan fair and proceeded to have a short supply for at least 6 months. Many dealers were demanding prices over MSRP only to offer discounts later on. Now the CS is launched.... we'll see what happens.
You're correct, all initially 2 series model lineage all had a initial high demand, when they were now introduce to the market.

The M235i, in early 2014, was marked-up because as I was told by my dealer; it's a "niche" model..

And the M2, I remember I was blowed away by it's $51,700 base price, which was the BMW bargain of the decade IMO but the dealer had only one, on the showroom floor, with a few cosmetic bits, proudly adorning a $65,000 price tag.. As if

I suspect the M2 CS will sell out for sticker because of the limited units. There are a lot of people that believe that this model would recreate the supple/demand jackpot, like what happen with the 1M.

Who knows, maybe it will.. :

I doubt the dealer's will discount the CS much, if any, when there is only 500 available, in the whole country of 325 million people.

To be honest, I like it and although it a lavish expense, if I could of swing it, I would throw my hat in the ring, to get me one.
There is no logic to this being similar to the 1M when it comes to depreciation. The 1M was similar to nothing and last if hydraulic steering. The m2cs is similar to other m2 vehicles and last of nothing anyone cares about (DCT).

I was making an assumption that the CS would retain "classic" status and the reasons I juxtapose both vehicles is because they're are limited-production, highly sorted out vehicles, than edges on the end of era to the F-series generation, before they start a new one - for better or worst.

I know the only two vehicles in BMWs history that actually appreciated in value was the Z8 & 1M. Hard to say if the M2 CS would retain the same esteem but I believe it has a decent chance.
I dunno man, how many m3cs cars are there? Probably not many really, and it comes in paint colors people actually like, but I don't see those increasing in value just because there more limited than the base model, and no one says they don't drive well.
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      01-26-2020, 12:13 AM   #1307
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I dunno man, how many m3cs cars are there? Probably not many really, and it comes in paint colors people actually like, but I don't see those increasing in value just because there more limited than the base model, and no one says they don't drive well.
Akkando appears to be partially right on this one. Despite having a limited run of only 500, the M3 CS has not increased in value. However the frustrating part is due to the limited nature, actually finding a M3 CS within driving distance of you. There are some used M3 CS that are advertised as a CS but are mis-labeled and are not a CS. So while a limited production CS may not increase in value, good luck finding one if you don't buy new during the limited time it is being produced.
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      01-26-2020, 06:21 PM   #1308
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Akkando appears to be partially right on this one. Despite having a limited run of only 500, the M3 CS has not increased in value. However the frustrating part is due to the limited nature, actually finding a M3 CS within driving distance of you. There are some used M3 CS that are advertised as a CS but are mis-labeled and are not a CS. So while a limited production CS may not increase in value, good luck finding one if you don't buy new during the limited time it is being produced.
All true statements. I think the other things to keep in mind with the M2 CS compared to what happened with the M3 and M4 CS and GTS models is that the overall BMW enthusiast market doesn't seem to well support prices over 100K for long. Just not much stick ups there ever, new, used, special or otherwise (exceptions of course being the skyrocketed values of E30 M3's and a maybe a few of the CSL E36 and E46's may head there). So I think the value on the M4 CS etc dropped after sale so much because for what it is, the market won't support a BMW at those price points. The M2 in the 80's... more on target. The M2 CS will also give up little to nothing, and for some be superior, to the M3 and M4 variants for performance. So within the BMW lineup at this point in time, with a manual transmission it just doesn't have a rival for the price, even against it's used CS brethren.
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      01-26-2020, 06:37 PM   #1309
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I think the M2C is a true rival @ $30k less.
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      01-26-2020, 07:01 PM   #1310
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I think the M2C is a true rival @ $30k less.
With tune and suspension, likely it’s daddy.
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      01-26-2020, 07:25 PM   #1311
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I think the M2C is a true rival @ $30k less.
Once again . . . the M2C is the M2CS, and has been every since European emission laws forced BMW to throw the S55 engine into the M2.

M2C owners would have still been VERY pleased with the N55 engine and all the other Competition 'bells and whistles' . . . as I suspect was every bit BMWs original intention.

No coincidence the M3/4 big brothers are about to be released with the S58 engine right around the time the M2CS is being released. In a perfect and previously planned world, BMW would have introduced the S55 engine in the M2CS. Not only giving the M2CS a true performance jump over the M2C, the engine jump would have come close to justifying the $30K+ price hike - and not step on the M3/4 big brother toes with their concomitant S58 release.

In the end, the M2C has been an absolute performance steal with the intended M2CS S55 engine. In contrast, the 'official' M2CS is just a few more bells and whistles at an exorbitant price.

I cannot imagine the enthusiasm this forum and the automotive world would have if the S55 were being released as intended in the official M2CS? Oh wait, I can imagine . . . it is exactly why the $60K M2C is so wildly popular.

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      01-26-2020, 09:10 PM   #1312
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Once again . . . the M2C is the M2CS, and has been every since European emission laws forced BMW to throw the S55 engine into the M2.
M2C owners would have still been VERY pleased with the N55 engine and all the other Competition 'bells and whistles' . . . as I suspect was every bit BMWs original intention.
No coincidence the M3/4 big brothers are about to be released with the S58 engine right around the time the M2CS is being released. In a perfect and previously planned world, BMW would have introduced the S55 engine in the M2CS. Not only giving the M2CS a true performance jump over the M2C, the engine jump would have come close to justifying the $30K+ price hike - and not step on the M3/4 big brother toes with their concomitant S58 release.
In the end, the M2C has been an absolute performance steal with the intended M2CS S55 engine. In contrast, the 'official' M2CS is just a few more bells and whistles at an exorbitant price.
I cannot imagine the enthusiasm this forum and the automotive world would have if the S55 were being released as intended in the official M2CS? Oh wait, I can imagine . . . it is exactly why the $60K M2C is so wildly popular.
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If anyone knows for sure please correct me if wrong.
I'm beginning to think BMW had the entire F87 platform—M2, M2C and M2CS—planned prior to every releasing the M2 and the whole closed deck thing was a mistaken reference to the S55.
Rumor has it (surfaced in January 2016) that an N55 M2 and S55 M2 were actually developed side-by-side, or at least within a small time window. The N55 M2 was supposed to be named "M2". And that happened. The S55 M2 was supposed to be called "M2 CS", due for release around 2018. And that did not happen: things took a turn in 2018 because of EU emissions homologation requirements taking force in September 2018 in Europe. Result: exit the N55 M2 and rebaptizing the S55 M2 as "M2 Competition". During the Summer of 2018: exit + enter. In VIN decoders exactly the same pre-production S55 M2 got labelled "M2 CS" and at some other point in time "M2 Competition". We may reasonably assume that the S55 M2 (temporary dubbed "M2 CS") that turned "M2 Competition", was not supposed to be sold at near-base-M2 price. But the problem was that there was no entry-level BMW M car anymore with the N55 M2 being retired. So the M2 Competition unexpectedly 'dropped' into the entry-level BMW M car position, with an attractive price. That's also why the M2 Competition will continue to be regarded as excellent value for money. Also from a price perspective, the M2 Competition stole the 450hp 2020 M2 CS thunder: if the M2 Competition would have been priced somewhere in the middle between base M2 price and base M4 price, the 2020 M2 CS price would be a little less hard to stomach.

Though this rumor has never been confirmed, M2 Competition owners may occasionally come across car parts featuring "CS" stamped on it.

picture below from forum fellow Cannondale900 + smknjoe + cb804:


Feel free to read my long post (post #1) on an 'old' dedicated M2 Competition speculation thread that you find here. Back in the day I updated that post from time to time and explained step by step my take on the (evolving) bigger picture of what IMHO was probably going on, based on bits and pieces scattered around, surfacing over time. Trying to see structures by connecting dots/clues, as outsider, at the risk of getting it all wrong or getting fooled by outdated info, because zero official information/confirmation by BMW back in those days.

Still today I believe that - at least at some point in time - the M2 Competition that we know now, was supposed to be the original "M2 CS", a more powerful sibling with distinguished quirks, due for sale alongside the entry-level base M2 + EU regulations triggered a rather spectacular plot twist (the "M2 Competition"/"M2 CS" replacing the base M2 as entry-level BMW M car, with a price-tag reflecting (very) good value for money).
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      01-27-2020, 10:08 AM   #1313
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In March 2016 the UK's CAR magazine tested the M2 upon its launch and stated that there was a CS in development at that time. This would appear to corroborate the above post by Artemis. As I'm sure the model in development at that point would not take 4 years to reach fruition?
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      01-27-2020, 10:14 AM   #1314
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Can someone do the CF upgrade math without install? I mean, we can install a carbon fiber lip and shit. We're not Merc drivers ffs.
This is one of my favorite posts I’ve ever seen on this forum
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      01-27-2020, 11:25 AM   #1315
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In March 2016 the UK's CAR magazine tested the M2 upon its launch and stated that there was a CS in development at that time. This would appear to corroborate the above post by Artemis. As I'm sure the model in development at that point would not take 4 years to reach fruition?
This was most likely 2018's M2 Competition that was in development in 2016 and released two years later in 2018. The CS of 2020 appears to be an upgraded M2 Competition.
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      01-27-2020, 12:16 PM   #1316
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In a day and internet age when it is easy to be bold and derogatory behind a keyboard, I have done my very best to be constructive and open-minded about the upcoming official release of the M2CS.

As part of such attempt I have tried to redirect my views and energies in a positive manner toward the M2C (aka M2CS v1). What a vehicle!!

As this thread lingers forward I apologize, but I simply cannot hold back any longer. . . The M2CS v2 at $30K+ over the M2CS v1 is a complete rip-off!

There, I finally said it!

What is particularly sad is the most common and, apparently, only reason most anyone would pay the unwarranted $30K+ premium is for 'exclusivity.' Seriously?! That is pathetic!

As per my prior post, nobody would blink an eye if the intended N55 M2C was $55-60K and S55 M2CS was $85-90K. BMW would have TWO home runs. Actually, even under such circumstance, I think $85-90K for the M2CS is still too steep, but would not consider it a complete heist.

Instead, BMW hit a grand slam (M2CS v1) . . . and is about to follow it up with a three-pitch strikeout (M2CS v2)!

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      01-27-2020, 12:48 PM   #1317
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I think anytime "value" is used in a comparison it's easy to come to the conclusion that a significantly more expensive option is the lesser of the two. Why do folks continue to purchase a Ferrari when a Corvette Z06 is just as quick. Is a 5M Bugatti 3M better than the 2M Bugatti. Clearly there are some that think its a worthwhile purchase.

I've read that the M2CS just isn't worth the increase in price due to marginal improvement. I then read in another thread how much superior the m3/m4 adaptive suspension is for ride quality compared to the M2, but the M2 is more fun Well, that's interesting. Imagine if the two were combined. Oh wait.....
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      01-27-2020, 12:48 PM   #1318
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@///AVM you're not entirely wrong. I have been a huge proponent for the CS. But I have gotten my deposit back. If I were to go for a M2, it would be the M2C.
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      01-27-2020, 12:53 PM   #1319
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What is particularly sad is the most common and, apparently, only reason most anyone would pay the unwarranted $30K+ premium is for 'exclusivity.' Seriously?! That is pathetic!
Exclusivity plays a role in literally everything us, as consumers, buy. The "I have it and you don't" mentality is apparent in almost all purchases today. I don't see why a limited production car SHOULDN'T have a higher price tag than it's non-limited production sibling. It makes perfect sense. Why did VIN no. 001 C8 Vette sell for $3 million the other day...? Because there is never going to be another number 1 for that chassis, exclusivity...

Now I'm not saying it makes $30,000 worth of sense, but there are other factors in that price. Hell, I don't think the car is worth what they're asking for it, but consider the M2C for a second. Now consider adding on nicer leather, different interior finish panels, new suspension, a tune, wheels, tires, carbon aero, carbon roof, etc. What would all that run, probably north of $15k. You get all of that WITH a warranty with the CS, while also getting a 1 of 2200 car.

BMW sales and marketing know more than you and I both, so I'm sure they did their research. Would they really sell a marked up M2C with some aero bits for $25-30k more without doing 0 market research...? Come on now.
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      01-27-2020, 01:20 PM   #1320
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Exclusivity plays a role in literally everything us, as consumers, buy. The "I have it and you don't" mentality is apparent in almost all purchases today. I don't see why a limited production car SHOULDN'T have a higher price tag than it's non-limited production sibling. It makes perfect sense. Why did VIN no. 001 C8 Vette sell for $3 million the other day...? Because there is never going to be another number 1 for that chassis, exclusivity...

Now I'm not saying it makes $30,000 worth of sense, but there are other factors in that price. Hell, I don't think the car is worth what they're asking for it, but consider the M2C for a second. Now consider adding on nicer leather, different interior finish panels, new suspension, a tune, wheels, tires, carbon aero, carbon roof, etc. What would all that run, probably north of $15k. You get all of that WITH a warranty with the CS, while also getting a 1 of 2200 car.

BMW sales and marketing know more than you and I both, so I'm sure they did their research. Would they really sell a marked up M2C with some aero bits for $25-30k more without doing 0 market research...? Come on now.
Agree with this. A limited production car like the CS should hold value better than a normal production vehicle. Simple economics supply and demand.

Cars depreciate like crazy so buying a limited production car should slow depreciation down. Some like myself only buy/finance cars, so we need our cars to be worth more dollars in trade in value to reduce the cost of the future car's loan.

Lastly I'm not sure why people continually post messages knocking down a car they have not driven, have not seen one review yet, and are not interested in. Is it just an attempt to make themselves feel better? I aspire to one day own a 911 but I don't go on Rennlist and call 992 911's overpriced, etc. just because I can't afford one currently. If I still want one, I will one day budget dollars to be able to finance one. I won't bash it or say it is overpriced simply because I can't afford it.
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