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      03-11-2016, 01:31 PM   #1
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M2 stage 1 tune

What do you guys think about some companies that already announce some numbers about stage 1 tune ?

http://www.br-performance.fr/brp-par...m2/?stage=6803

https://www.shiftech.eu/fr/reprogram...nce/3.0i-m-370

Probably most of us know that the m2 comes with a "super" N55 instead of a tuned N55, but how is it possible to make 420 hp on pump gas and same turbo without any hardware improvement ? "Normal" N55s need a catless DP, intake, intercooler, .. to get 420 cv (some even fbo don't get these numbers without e85 or meth)
We can also ask how is it possible to promise numbers without even seeing a car
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      03-11-2016, 01:51 PM   #2
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Probably crank numbers... so ~370 whp... I could believe that.

But then again, what kind of flash is this? The flash tuning world in the F series cars is rather dark and no one knows what is really being tuned.
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      03-11-2016, 02:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader View Post
What do you guys think about some companies that already announce some numbers about stage 1 tune ?

http://www.br-performance.fr/brp-par...m2/?stage=6803

https://www.shiftech.eu/fr/reprogram...nce/3.0i-m-370

Probably most of us know that the m2 comes with a "super" N55 instead of a tuned N55, but how is it possible to make 420 hp on pump gas and same turbo without any hardware improvement ? "Normal" N55s need a catless DP, intake, intercooler, .. to get 420 cv (some even fbo don't get these numbers without e85 or meth)
We can also ask how is it possible to promise numbers without even seeing a car
It's not the same turbo. Different part number. There was a thread that discussed this at length awhile back....
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      03-11-2016, 02:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
It's not the same turbo. Different part number. There was a thread that discussed this at length awhile back....
Do you have an official link ? Does someone know something more about the turbo except his part number ?
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      03-11-2016, 02:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader View Post
Do you have an official link ? Does someone know something more about the turbo except his part number ?
Check this thread and the links within it for starters. There's another thread on here someplace that covers this issue as well.

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...0#post19461480
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      03-11-2016, 03:57 PM   #6
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The N55 0T0 (aka, the M2's N55) had some significant internal upgrades - which allow it to make more power and reliably so. I'm sure the car is under rated like the M3/4.

The N55 in the 235 had the PPK flash from BMW. No internal upgrades. That engine can't make more than 365 horsepower reliably without significant upgrades.

Dackel posted a great thread about it a while back.
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      03-11-2016, 04:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
The N55 0T0 (aka, the M2's N55) had some significant internal upgrades - which allow it to make more power and reliably so. I'm sure the car is under rated like the M3/4.

The N55 in the 235 had the PPK flash from BMW. No internal upgrades. That engine can't make more than 365 horsepower reliably without significant upgrades.

Dackel posted a great thread about it a while back.
There is a forged crank on Mx35i N55, not on regular N55.
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      03-11-2016, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenotte View Post
There is a forged crank on Mx35i N55, not on regular N55.
But there are several differences between the PPK flashed N55 and the 0T0 version - that's all I meant.

BMW was very sly with their marketing of the 235.
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      03-11-2016, 08:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Check this thread and the links within it for starters. There's another thread on here someplace that covers this issue as well. http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...0#post19461480
The links seem to be dead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
The N55 0T0 (aka, the M2's N55) had some significant internal upgrades - which allow it to make more power and reliably so. I'm sure the car is under rated like the M3/4.

The N55 in the 235 had the PPK flash from BMW. No internal upgrades. That engine can't make more than 365 horsepower reliably without significant upgrades.

Dackel posted a great thread about it a while back.
Yes, that's why I called it a super N55. We all know closed deck, forged crank, S55 parts, ...
Some bimmerpost members are driving 500whp+ N55s, what is your source about the max power for a standard N55 ?

I hope for m2 owners that their turbo will allow them to put more horses But I find strange that companies can know how much they can gain without any tests. Do some american tuners give numbers at this moment ?
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      03-11-2016, 09:43 PM   #10
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Have you even tried to simply ask them.
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      03-12-2016, 02:17 AM   #11
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This tuner supposedly can tune the X4 M40i (detuned M2 engine) to 420hp/390tq and 440hp/420tq

And similar numbers for the M2

Not sure how they know, but dont think anyone really knows until they have dyno'ed it.
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      03-12-2016, 07:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBNYC View Post
This tuner supposedly can tune the X4 M40i (detuned M2 engine) to 420hp/390tq and 440hp/420tq

And similar numbers for the M2

Not sure how they know, but dont think anyone really knows until they have dyno'ed it.
Hey bro! Happy to see that you also moved to the M league!
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      03-12-2016, 06:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader View Post
The links seem to be dead...



Yes, that's why I called it a super N55. We all know closed deck, forged crank, S55 parts, ...
Some bimmerpost members are driving 500whp+ N55s, what is your source about the max power for a standard N55 ?

I hope for m2 owners that their turbo will allow them to put more horses But I find strange that companies can know how much they can gain without any tests. Do some american tuners give numbers at this moment ?
Like I said, Dackel had a thread on it a while back - a German company made a souped up 235 before the M2 was confirmed - the conclusion after the engine tear down was that 360 was the max the engine could make reliably.

Can you tune it up higher? Sure - but at the cost of longevity.

The N55 ain't the N54....which had forged internals and could make substantially more power without upgrading those same internals.
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      03-12-2016, 10:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader View Post
The links seem to be dead...



Yes, that's why I called it a super N55. We all know closed deck, forged crank, S55 parts, ...
Some bimmerpost members are driving 500whp+ N55s, what is your source about the max power for a standard N55 ?

I hope for m2 owners that their turbo will allow them to put more horses But I find strange that companies can know how much they can gain without any tests. Do some american tuners give numbers at this moment ?
Like I said, Dackel had a thread on it a while back - a German company made a souped up 235 before the M2 was confirmed - the conclusion after the engine tear down was that 360 was the max the engine could make reliably.

Can you tune it up higher? Sure - but at the cost of longevity.

The N55 ain't the N54....which had forged internals and could make substantially more power without upgrading those same internals.
I'm no engineer but this is so far from the truth. First of all the n54 does NOT have forged internals, Just the crank. Anyone stating that the n54 is leaps and bounds stronger than the n55 is just spewing hearsay at this point. The flash tuning limitations are what's really holding the n55 down. False knock and fueling etc.

Furthermore, 360 crank max? That's even low for DINAN. The most conservative BMW tuner on earth. They wouldn't be offering 130hp Deltas if that was the case.
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      03-12-2016, 10:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
I'm no engineer but this is so far from the truth. First of all the n54 does NOT have forged internals, Just the crank. Anyone stating that the n54 is leaps and bounds stronger than the n55 is just spewing hearsay at this point. The flash tuning limitations are what's really holding the n55 down. False knock and fueling etc.

Furthermore, 360 crank max? That's even low for DINAN. The most conservative BMW tuner on earth. They wouldn't be offering 130hp Deltas if that was the case.
This is true. Saw on another forum that they are over 600 whp on the N55 after a turbo and fueling upgrade. We are still waiting on what the turbo in the M2 N55 can do.
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      03-13-2016, 03:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Like I said, Dackel had a thread on it a while back - a German company made a souped up 235 before the M2 was confirmed - the conclusion after the engine tear down was that 360 was the max the engine could make reliably. Can you tune it up higher? Sure - but at the cost of longevity. The N55 ain't the N54....which had forged internals and could make substantially more power without upgrading those same internals.
Yes, this company is Tuningwerk. It's the only company which was able to kill a N55 with light mods. It doesn't mean anything compared to thousands of 400+ N55 running without problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
This is true. Saw on another forum that they are over 600 whp on the N55 after a turbo and fueling upgrade. We are still waiting on what the turbo in the M2 N55 can do.
Yes, it is the brazilian company ACF. It is the world record on N55, if I remember well it's almost 650whp.
Can't wait to see some dyno and 1/4 mile of tuned M2s.

Just for comparison, stage 1 tune on RS3/TTRS gives 420-430 crank hp.
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      03-13-2016, 10:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Like I said, Dackel had a thread on it a while back - a German company made a souped up 235 before the M2 was confirmed - the conclusion after the engine tear down was that 360 was the max the engine could make reliably. Can you tune it up higher? Sure - but at the cost of longevity. The N55 ain't the N54....which had forged internals and could make substantially more power without upgrading those same internals.
Yes, this company is Tuningwerk. It's the only company which was able to kill a N55 with light mods. It doesn't mean anything compared to thousands of 400+ N55 running without problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
This is true. Saw on another forum that they are over 600 whp on the N55 after a turbo and fueling upgrade. We are still waiting on what the turbo in the M2 N55 can do.
Yes, it is the brazilian company ACF. It is the world record on N55, if I remember well it's almost 650whp.
Can't wait to see some dyno and 1/4 mile of tuned M2s.

Just for comparison, stage 1 tune on RS3/TTRS gives 420-430 crank hp.
I'm so excited about ACF. I don't know what witchcraft they are brewing down there but it's good.
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      03-13-2016, 01:56 PM   #18
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      03-26-2016, 02:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABPReader View Post
The links seem to be dead...



Yes, that's why I called it a super N55. We all know closed deck, forged crank, S55 parts, ...
Some bimmerpost members are driving 500whp+ N55s, what is your source about the max power for a standard N55 ?

I hope for m2 owners that their turbo will allow them to put more horses But I find strange that companies can know how much they can gain without any tests. Do some american tuners give numbers at this moment ?
Like I said, Dackel had a thread on it a while back - a German company made a souped up 235 before the M2 was confirmed - the conclusion after the engine tear down was that 360 was the max the engine could make reliably.

Can you tune it up higher? Sure - but at the cost of longevity.

The N55 ain't the N54....which had forged internals and could make substantially more power without upgrading those same internals.
Lol that's so not true!

My m235i is running a flash on a stock car except catback exhaust, and it's doing 360hp at the wheels, which is over 400 hp at the crank.
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      03-26-2016, 03:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
T. No internal upgrades. That engine can't make more than 365 horsepower reliably without significant upgrades.
The regular N55 is VERY capably of making significant horsepower upgrades, reliably, on the stock internals.

Don't confuse the issue.

The regular N55's turbo size is a limiting factor in making power on a tune.

The M2 has a significantly upgraded "N55", if you can even call it that. It's essentially a different engine, with it's new block, rotating assembly, etc.

That is hardly the same thing as saying the standard N55 is a weak engine. To the contrary, it, like the N54...is a notoriously strong/reliable powerplant.

There's a big difference between calling an engine unreliable at certain power levels, and saying an OEM chose to make upgrades to a certain engine as it upped its output. Maybe consider your words more carefully?
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      04-14-2016, 07:32 PM   #21
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A question MissionPerformance maybe able to answer. Alex is really breaking down the DME on the N55 and has made a lot of discoveries.
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