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      04-05-2020, 07:58 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
JustChris

Is that literal or figurative? I mean, is BMW going to only offer a (1) true MT or (2) automatic with no manual mode in future models? In other words, literally no more DCT?

///AVM
I think it's literal; eventually, the M-DCT will be replaced with the new 8-Speed conventional auto.

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      04-05-2020, 10:57 PM   #332
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I think it's great that BMW offers the automatic/DCT since that's what ladies prefer.
This comment is not necessary and it's why this conversation always ends up in uncivil discourse, putting DCT owners on the offensive.

No, I don't believe DCT/Auto are marketed or designed for females; it's just an alternative option to a third-pedal manual but is just not for everyone, that might appreciate a little more control, when available.
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      04-05-2020, 11:15 PM   #333
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Manual for engagement on the street, but on track I'd always rather be in a DCT to keep both hands on the wheel and not worry about missing a shift. I had DCT in my E90 M3 and it was a great transmission, I get a ton of satisfaction from the manual in the M2C even just putting around. Really can't go wrong with either transmission, sometimes I wish I had one of each!
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      04-06-2020, 12:18 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Is that literal or figurative? I mean, is BMW going to only offer a (1) true MT or (2) automatic with no manual mode in future models? In other words, literally no more DCT?

///AVM
They are doing the slush box with paddles approach. For someone that wants an auto it is a better solution than DCT. No argument.

For a DCT lover like me that's a non starter so I would hypothetically be getting the marketing transmission (MT) if I got into a newer model.

However. My plan is to get CS with DCT and keep it for a long long time. So it's likely this decision won't affect me. If for some reason the CS does not arrive then I'll be keeping my M2C for a long long time.
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      04-06-2020, 12:57 AM   #335
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      04-06-2020, 02:48 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Indeed.....and infact quite the opposite....DCT is no more...

JustChris

Is that literal or figurative? I mean, is BMW going to only offer a (1) true MT or (2) automatic with no manual mode in future models? In other words, literally no more DCT?

///AVM
As far as we know manual is safe into next round of M2/3/4. This was shared by BMW.

Then I'm fairly sure these are the last DCT cars this generation. Starting with the F90
M5s these cars were all going 8AT rather than DCT.

So automatics live on (and are the norm) but DCT itself seems to be replaced.
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      04-06-2020, 03:50 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Indeed.....and infact quite the opposite....DCT is no more...

JustChris

Is that literal or figurative? I mean, is BMW going to only offer a (1) true MT or (2) automatic with no manual mode in future models? In other words, literally no more DCT?

///AVM
As far as we know manual is safe into next round of M2/3/4. This was shared by BMW.

Then I'm fairly sure these are the last DCT cars this generation. Starting with the F90
M5s these cars were all going 8AT rather than DCT.

So automatics live on (and are the norm) but DCT itself seems to be replaced.
It was predicted a long time ago that the dual clutch gearbox wouldn't survive another decade, sometime around 2016, when Ford made a mess of their attempt at the technology and not to mention, the production cost penalty involved, increasing a vehicle's MSRP.

Although it allots for lightening fast shift speeds, bar none to most; it never really became mainstream as the automatic transmission does, which modern automatics are equivalent in shifts and power to its dual clutch counterpart, not to mention it adds $0 to the sticker price.

Cool tech and I appreciate its existence but it never really found its niche market to retain staying power..

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...sion-problems/
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      04-06-2020, 07:07 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
I think it's great that BMW offers the automatic/DCT since that's what ladies prefer.
This comment is not necessary and it's why this conversation always ends up in uncivil discourse, putting DCT owners on the offensive.

No, I don't believe DCT/Auto are marketed or designed for females; it's just an alternative option to a third-pedal manual but is just not for everyone, that might appreciate a little more control, when available.
Absolutely agree! And if you're competing, it's DCT or bust.

What a ridiculous comment by gatorfast
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      04-06-2020, 09:20 AM   #339
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Poochie and JCZ5 are right. DCT and PDK are faster than manual. The DCT in the CS is 0.2 seconds faster than the manual. Most new 911's today come with PDK. It is a shame that the next generation M2, M3, and M4 won't have a DCT just a ZF8 automatic.
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      04-06-2020, 11:17 AM   #340
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Oh no! More fuel to the fire!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/
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Although the dual-clutch saw minimal gains, it’s the six-speed manual that most impressed us. The manual gearbox enables better control of the explosive torque off the line and requires a single—albeit crunchy—shift to reach 60 mph, conquering the feat in 3.9 seconds. Yes, the manual is quicker than the automatic (applause!) even if just barely.
Look, at the end of the day, we should be glad that the car is offered with an automatic transmission. Simply put, it sells cars. It's an amazing car and if it was an auto only, a good portion of us wouldn't be driving it.
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      04-06-2020, 02:00 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
This comment is not necessary and it's why this conversation always ends up in uncivil discourse, putting DCT owners on the offensive.

No, I don't believe DCT/Auto are marketed or designed for females; it's just an alternative option to a third-pedal manual but is just not for everyone, that might appreciate a little more control, when available.
I was kidding! Obviously automatics are not only for ladies. There are plenty of effeminate men who enjoy them as well
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      04-06-2020, 02:17 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
This comment is not necessary and it's why this conversation always ends up in uncivil discourse, putting DCT owners on the offensive.

No, I don't believe DCT/Auto are marketed or designed for females; it's just an alternative option to a third-pedal manual but is just not for everyone, that might appreciate a little more control, when available.
I was kidding! Obviously automatics are not only for ladies. There are plenty of effeminate men who enjoy them as well
Yea, I picked up on that but it's obviously a touchy subject, so you have to choose your words carefully because some owners takes it as provocation and it just all ends up in flames..

I would love the discuss the nuances and quirks of both gearboxes, in an amicable manner but it somehow always morphs into a pissing match, so that will never happen but one can dream.
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      04-06-2020, 02:23 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
This comment is not necessary and it's why this conversation always ends up in uncivil discourse, putting DCT owners on the offensive.

No, I don't believe DCT/Auto are marketed or designed for females; it's just an alternative option to a third-pedal manual but is just not for everyone, that might appreciate a little more control, when available.
I was kidding! Obviously automatics are not only for ladies. There are plenty of effeminate men who enjoy them as well
Yea, I picked up on that but it's obviously a touchy subject, so you have to choose your words carefully because some owners takes it as provocation and it just all ends up in flames..

I would love the discuss the nuances and quirks of both gearboxes, in an amicable manner but it somehow always morphs into a pissing match, so that will never happen but one can dream.
I know. Every manual vs auto thread for every model on every car forum goes about the same way. Just the nature of the beast. Different strokes for different folks.
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      04-07-2020, 07:09 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
I was kidding! Obviously automatics are not only for ladies. There are plenty of effeminate men who enjoy them as well
Yes. There are many men that cast judgement on other men's choices whilst desiring nothing more then to have their hands all over a knob. I'm not judging. Just enjoy what you like.
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      04-07-2020, 08:35 AM   #345
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I feel like we need a team building event to bring unity to the M2 forum. How about we mosey on over to the i3 forum and let those guys know how we feel about electric vs. internal combustion engines?
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      04-07-2020, 12:18 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Oh no! More fuel to the fire!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/


Look, at the end of the day, we should be glad that the car is offered with an automatic transmission. Simply put, it sells cars. It's an amazing car and if it was an auto only, a good portion of us wouldn't be driving it.
Eh, i dont know. What would be the alternative? Especially new? I did quite a bit of shopping around at this price point before i settled on the M2C (granted a big part of that was i always wanted a BMW M Car), but honestly there isnt much out there with this kind of performance for this price. Maybe i would have ended up with an M240i instead...but that car is still a far cry from how good the M2 Competition is.

Honestly if this car only came in DCT, i'd probably still buy it. However if i strictly wanted a MT, i probably would have jumped back into another 86, or waited for the GR 86 to come out.
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      04-07-2020, 12:22 PM   #347
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Honestly if this car only came in DCT, i'd probably still buy it.
I wouldn't have. This is a fun car and should come with a proper transmission. But you're right, choices are REALLY limited when it comes to sports cars with an actual 6 speed. M4, 911 (which is out of my budget), 718 Cayman, maybe a C7 but I would rather get a C8.
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      04-07-2020, 01:36 PM   #348
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I wouldn't have. This is a fun car and should come with a proper transmission. But you're right, choices are REALLY limited when it comes to sports cars with an actual 6 speed. M4, 911 (which is out of my budget), 718 Cayman, maybe a C7 but I would rather get a C8.
Yeah my absolute limit for cost was this car. Anything more and its just out of my budget. Unless i went with the used market, i wouldnt be able to afford any of the cars you listed. At least not in the trim and spec that would have made me happy.

Even though i would have bought this if it only came with a DCT, i am very happy i got it in a MT. It is so satisfying to drive for me. Its probably why i would have just gone with another 86.
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      04-07-2020, 03:04 PM   #349
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Eh, i dont know. What would be the alternative? Especially new? I did quite a bit of shopping around at this price point before i settled on the M2C (granted a big part of that was i always wanted a BMW M Car), but honestly there isnt much out there with this kind of performance for this price.
Mustang? Camaro? Dare I say it...Challenger? At least 2/3 of those cars are in the same ballpark as the M2C on a track for substantially less money.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I cringe a little bit when I imagine myself owning any of those cars. The way your cat feels when you try to pet it back to front is how I feel when I drive a pony car.

But they still exist and are still fantastic deals. Don't forget the $60K Mustang has a higher redline AND makes 500+ hp. And all of them can be had with a manual.

Personally, if the M2C didn't come with a manual, i'd have probably just hung on to my money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking/tolerating an auto/automated manual, but that's not me. Just a personal preference.
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      04-07-2020, 05:05 PM   #350
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Mustang? Camaro? Dare I say it...Challenger? At least 2/3 of those cars are in the same ballpark as the M2C on a track for substantially less money.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I cringe a little bit when I imagine myself owning any of those cars. The way your cat feels when you try to pet it back to front is how I feel when I drive a pony car.

But they still exist and are still fantastic deals. Don't forget the $60K Mustang has a higher redline AND makes 500+ hp. And all of them can be had with a manual.
Yeah in my mind i dont even put them in the same category. I dont know, fun handling RWD and muscle car just dont seem to go hand in hand in my experience. Dont get me wrong i love Mustangs...but every single time i've driven one i've always felt its just too wide and too heavy with not enough steering input. Granted the last one i drove was a 2017 GT so who knows, maybe things are different. And even Randy Pobst says that the Camaro 1LE is a fantastic track car. But i think its just all personal preference. Other than the mustang, i dont like how muscle cars look, the interior looks cheap, they are hard to work on, and they are everywhere. I drive by at least 10 mustangs a day (even with the SIP happening) and i always see chargers and camaros whenever i'm out. They just arent special to me at all. The M2 is a rare sight, and the Competition even more so. Then you add in the fact its an awesome canyon carver with a very nice interior and a great daily driver, RWD, twin turbo coupe, that you can fit a set of track wheels in the back..and its hard for me to find anything else that meets those specifications for the same price point.
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      04-07-2020, 05:40 PM   #351
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I learned how to drive on a stick back in the early 90s with a 30 year old car. Even less power than a CRX. A whopping 36hp 1200cc V-dub that I happen to still have. It was my Granny's and then my mom's and now mine.

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Right On!!! Learned in my Dad's Bug but it was early 80's

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      04-07-2020, 07:30 PM   #352
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My parents bought my first car when I turned 16. They went all out and got me that last existing Ford Escort on the road.

With MT, that thing was fast as hell. . . I am thinking 0-60 in 3.9 minutes.

Good times

///AVM
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