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      10-14-2020, 11:25 PM   #1
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M2 to M2 comp track experiences

This isn't a "VS" thread

Thinking about the option to trade-in for a comp and I'm looking for opinions and experiences of those of you who have driven both of these cars on track. It'd be great if there's as little cognitive bias/dissonance as possible. I think it's pretty safe to say the competition is the faster car, but what I am curious about is if it's also more enjoyable and reliable on track.

I think the heart of the comparison for me really lies in the N55/S55 differences. The pros and cons all seem to go back and forth other than that

M2 Competition Pros
S55 power
S55 cooling
S55 rev range
Nifty carbon chassis bracing (does this make a difference :shrug: )

M2 Competition Cons
More weight
19" wheels required
More money to operate

I'm grappling with this because I do not like to modify power/reliability components, but after a strange howling noise and the thought of frustrating track weekends because of heat issues, I'm looking at charge pipes and coolers. Then comes the question of, "Shit, if I'm spending money on this stuff, why not just get the comp and a new warranty?" Am I overthinking it? Is the comp qualifiably better?

PS: I looked around for threads, but most are just about seats, and mirrors, and which car makes [s]better[/s] worse fart noises.

Last edited by M1500Z; 10-14-2020 at 11:59 PM..
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      10-14-2020, 11:55 PM   #2
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I made the change. No regrets. Your “pros” and “cons” above are spot on. You say you don’t like to mod but.....a stage 1 BM3 tune will get you 100 rwhp....no other mods. Amazing.
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      10-15-2020, 12:47 AM   #3
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M2C on the track. I've driven one but own an OG.

Faster? Yes

More reliable? Probably. More so if you are running >10-15 minutes per session where cooling might be a concern with the N55.

More enjoyable? Meh. Depends how you define enjoyable.

If enjoyable to you is focussed on absolute numbers for lap times and the ability to go faster than other people then the M2C will move your enjoyment factor up a notch. But as an "early intermediate" track day driver, I'm yet to get the best out of my OG M2. Almost each trip to the track results in a new PB for me although the gains are getting progressively smaller each outing. Put another way, the performance limitation is still me, not the car.

Of course if I started over and had a choice of the two, M2C is the logical choice. But the changeover price to upgrade now is significant and I will find more enjoyment by putting that cost towards more frequent attendance and consumables like tyres. I say stick with what you've got unless it is causing you problems or holding you back.

As an aside, I'm fortunate enough to also have a small FWD hatchback that is an absolute blast to drive on the track. It's slower than the M2 by some margin but I'd rate it as equally as much fun for one fifth the price of entry. Lately I've been tracking it more often than the M2.

Good luck with the decision
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      10-15-2020, 01:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1500Z View Post
This isn't a "VS" thread

Thinking about the option to trade-in for a comp and I'm looking for opinions and experiences of those of you who have driven both of these cars on track. It'd be great if there's as little cognitive bias/dissonance as possible. I think it's pretty safe to say the competition is the faster car, but what I am curious about is if it's also more enjoyable and reliable on track.

I think the heart of the comparison for me really lies in the N55/S55 differences. The pros and cons all seem to go back and forth other than that

M2 Competition Pros
S55 power
S55 cooling
S55 rev range
Nifty carbon chassis bracing (does this make a difference :shrug: )

M2 Competition Cons
More weight
19" wheels required
More money to operate

I'm grappling with this because I do not like to modify power/reliability components, but after a strange howling noise and the thought of frustrating track weekends because of heat issues, I'm looking at charge pipes and coolers. Then comes the question of, "Shit, if I'm spending money on this stuff, why not just get the comp and a new warranty?" Am I overthinking it? Is the comp qualifiably better?

PS: I looked around for threads, but most are just about seats, and mirrors, and which car makes [s]better[/s] worse fart noises.
If trading up to an M2C has no material effect on your financial well-being then do it. If you have to skip meals or swap wagyu, prime ribs to macca beef patties then I wouldn’t
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      10-15-2020, 01:58 AM   #5
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There are around a 1/2 dozen M2’s (mix of OG and Comps) that I’m on the track with regularly, and I can’t say I’ve noticed the power differential, so I’m not sure I’d let stock for stock power motivate your decision. I’m sure the power advantage is there, it’s just too small to not be lost in the noise among other differences.

But I can see the appeal of the superior cooling, stiffer chassis, and bigger brakes. Cooling and brakes especially in Texas.

The N55 in the OG got a few choice upgrades (others can rattle these off more intelligently than me) from the S55 that leave me feeling pretty confident in durability.

I’m interested to see what the G chassis M2 brings to the table and maybe it’ll be a big enough jump to make it worthwhile, or perhaps my M2 will start showing its age by then. For me, the OG vs Comp difference is too close to be anything but subjective preference with each having it’s pros and cons.

I’m with Caduceus - spend the money saved by not upgrading on more track time. The $20k or so you’ll be out will buy a lot of tires, brakes pads and entry fees.
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      10-15-2020, 03:34 AM   #6
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If you are really after more power and want more reliability go M2C. The cooling on the S55 is amazing with the oil temp staying steady (and sometimes even diping below the normal threshold) no matter what you throw at it.

I also ovetake most things on track like they are standing still and can bring the fire to Porsche GT cars and the like. Its adictive to get the ass to slide a bit, wait till it hooks, and mash the throttle towards the horizon.

as Karmic said if you dont put yourself into financial strain with this move I would seriously consider it. As to the brakes you can always "downgrade" to the OG brakes as they are a straight swap. Or get a front BBK that fits 18s and run a setup similar to the M2CS racing (alcon 6 pot fronts + cooling and OEM Brembo 4 pot rears with cooling mods) .
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      10-15-2020, 06:13 AM   #7
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As Megator said, if you’re OK with stock power, pick which car you like more. I’m an M2 guy.

If you want to add power and hit the track, you’re going to need a long list of cooling related mods to make it work in the M2.

Altho, the engine warranty is thrown out the window at that point for either car, and the required mod list is no more expensive than the price delta bn M2 & M2C cars. You’re just not going to be able to get as much reliable power on track out of the N55 vs S55, is all.
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      10-15-2020, 06:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
As Megator said, if you’re OK with stock power, pick which car you like more. I’m an M2 guy.

If you want to add power and hit the track, you’re going to need a long list of cooling related mods to make it work in the M2.

Altho, the engine warranty is thrown out the window at that point for either car, and the required mod list is no more expensive than the price delta bn M2 & M2C cars. You’re just not going to be able to get as much reliable power on track out of the N55 vs S55, is all.
I realized this also this year. I have not been able to make much headway in terms of my lap times on the ring this summer. I was stuck around 8:14-8:20 in multiple days in July and August. It left me frustrated and puzzled. Then the last day I did was late September, with ambient temps about 20-25F lower than before, and I shaved ~14s off my time.

Stock engine and cooling OG M2, same tires in all sessions. I could tell the car pulled harder out of the corners and up the hills. I’d like to think I suddenly found my inner Stig, but that’s only partially true.
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      10-15-2020, 08:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I realized this also this year. I have not been able to make much headway in terms of my lap times on the ring this summer. I was stuck around 8:14-8:20 in multiple days in July and August. It left me frustrated and puzzled. Then the last day I did was late September, with ambient temps about 20-25F lower than before, and I shaved ~14s off my time.

Stock engine and cooling OG M2, same tires in all sessions. I could tell the car pulled harder out of the corners and up the hills. I’d like to think I suddenly found my inner Stig, but that’s only partially true.
Argh so close to the 8min mark! Can you check when its pulling power due to temp? I would have thought the ring was fast enough not to cause troubles.
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      10-15-2020, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Argh so close to the 8min mark! Can you check when its pulling power due to temp? I would have thought the ring was fast enough not to cause troubles.
In my experience, the car pulls power when IATs get above 105F.

While the Ring has some long straights for air flow, those long 4-5-6 gear pulls generate more heat than the stock IC can handle.

I only ever got no power pulled on track when ambient was below 55F, before my cooling mods.
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      10-15-2020, 10:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1500Z View Post
This isn't a "VS" thread

Thinking about the option to trade-in for a comp and I'm looking for opinions and experiences of those of you who have driven both of these cars on track. It'd be great if there's as little cognitive bias/dissonance as possible. I think it's pretty safe to say the competition is the faster car, but what I am curious about is if it's also more enjoyable and reliable on track.

I think the heart of the comparison for me really lies in the N55/S55 differences. The pros and cons all seem to go back and forth other than that

M2 Competition Pros
S55 power
S55 cooling
S55 rev range
Nifty carbon chassis bracing (does this make a difference :shrug: )

M2 Competition Cons
More weight
19" wheels required
More money to operate

I'm grappling with this because I do not like to modify power/reliability components, but after a strange howling noise and the thought of frustrating track weekends because of heat issues, I'm looking at charge pipes and coolers. Then comes the question of, "Shit, if I'm spending money on this stuff, why not just get the comp and a new warranty?" Am I overthinking it? Is the comp qualifiably better?

PS: I looked around for threads, but most are just about seats, and mirrors, and which car makes [s]better[/s] worse fart noises.
From what it sounds like the comp might be a better fit for you. The OG heat soaks quickly & pulls power hard. Even if you were okay with upgrading the cooling there is still a ceiling on the improvement you will see. This becomes a major uphill battle here in Texas most months & honestly can get old pretty quick. When pushing a bit any available aftermarket cooling options are still going to quickly struggle here - more drastic measures are really want to keep the car cool and want to run at a good pace.

Out of the box the comp is going to give you better cooling. There is also a noticeable bump in power. If you plan to keep the car stockish and retain warranty - I feel it would be a more enjoyable choice. The biggest drawbacks of it to me though are the brakes and the exhaust. Being forced to 19" tires combined with the fitment constraints of this platform is kind of frustrating. There are options though whether you stick with the oem brakes or decide to go to a 18" friendly setup. The exhaust, well that is subjective...

To me the OG shines when you are open to modding - but even at that you still might have to go pretty deep to keep it happy on the track around here. It certainly can be tracked & enjoyed around here stockish - but there is a good chance heat could quickly start pulling power.
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      10-15-2020, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Argh so close to the 8min mark! Can you check when its pulling power due to temp? I would have thought the ring was fast enough not to cause troubles.
yeah, 8:07 lap time, but with about ~5-6s lost due to traffic, and ~2s due to turning in too early into Bergwerk. The rest of the lap felt pretty solid execution wise. I posted the full video of lap in the Lap Time thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
In my experience, the car pulls power when IATs get above 105F.

While the Ring has some long straights for air flow, those long 4-5-6 gear pulls generate more heat than the stock IC can handle.

I only ever got no power pulled on track when ambient was below 55F, before my cooling mods.
Thanks for the info. The high that last day was 58F, so makes sense why the car felt stronger.

I have ~9 months left before I re-patriate back, so I want to plan my last 2 track days in the M2 in April next year, before it gets warm.
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      10-15-2020, 10:16 AM   #13
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yeah, 8:07 lap time, but with about ~5-6s lost due to traffic, and ~2s due to turning in too early into Bergwerk. I posted the full video of lap in the Lap Time thread.



Thanks for the info. The high that last day was 58F, so makes sense why the car felt stronger.

I have ~9 months left before I re-patriate back, so I want to plan my last 2 track days in the M2 in April next year, before it gets warm.
Dude you gotta do Zandvoort before you go. Its a kick ass track with all the elevation changes. Ill guide you through it
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      10-15-2020, 10:18 AM   #14
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Dude you gotta do Zandvoort before you go. Its a kick ass track with all the elevation changes. Ill guide you through it
Thanks! Sounds fun. I may need to negotiate with the Boss since that's too far for a one day excursion. If not Spa is also on my list for next year!
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      10-16-2020, 05:41 PM   #15
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Decisions decisions — I appreciate the opinions and experiences shared. If I had to give my car any demerit points, it would be that the cooling system isn't matched to the engine and it could use a few more RPM.

Laptimes, I think I can probably say for most of us, are important and aren't important. When comparing against largely equal variables, they are important, but I don't want to fall for the trap of buying a faster car to get faster laps.

@Caduceus I am curious if you could elaborate more on your experience. I had a similar experience driving both on the street and only felt the steering was improved (and then I coded comp steering into my car).

@OG Shark do you have a thread discussing what's done to your car and your experiences? I am not totally opposed to altering only the cooling system. As I said, I have no desire to make more power — there are other ways to find speed.
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      10-17-2020, 08:42 AM   #16
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I have one other question. We all agree that M2C will do better on the cooling front.

But has anyone confirmed that in the summer climates of TX, FL AZ or CA the M2C doesn't pull timing? Or verified at what temp it starts to? I'd be interested to know as M2C might be on my list of potential cars when I get back stateside next year.

Right now that list is very limited. SS 1LE and Mustang Mach 1. The second one is close to price to a one year old M2C so, I might as well consider it also.
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      10-17-2020, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I have one other question. We all agree that M2C will do better on the cooling front.

But has anyone confirmed that in the summer climates of TX, FL AZ or CA the M2C doesn't pull timing? Or verified at what temp it starts to? I'd be interested to know as M2C might be on my list of potential cars when I get back stateside next year.

Right now that list is very limited. SS 1LE and Mustang Mach 1. The second one is close to price to a one year old M2C so, I might as well consider it also.
I have pushed the M2C at the track in Texas heat on multiple occasions and never had the first hint of high fluid temps...or loss of power....and I monitor oil and water temps continuously throughout each track session on the LED Read-out On the M-Sport steering wheel. It’s the first production based car I’ve owned that didn’t require upgrades to the fluid cooling systems..for DE type track use in the summer months (30 minute Sessions at 9/10th). BMW did their homework on the s55 cooling systems...I’d say.
I’m not aware of cooling issues in the 1LEs either...and they are fast. GM appears to have done their homework on them as well. On the other hand, several of the Mustang guys I’ve visited with track-side seem to experience cooling issues..unless they’re in a Gt350R..which must have some extra cooling capacity. The blue oval guys also Seem to complain about difficulty with warranty claims, while the GM guys say GM Coverage has been great with the 1LEs, including replacing blown engines in track cars.
.

Last edited by M2C AW; 10-17-2020 at 10:43 AM..
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      10-17-2020, 11:49 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I have one other question. We all agree that M2C will do better on the cooling front.

But has anyone confirmed that in the summer climates of TX, FL AZ or CA the M2C doesn't pull timing? Or verified at what temp it starts to? I'd be interested to know as M2C might be on my list of potential cars when I get back stateside next year.

Right now that list is very limited. SS 1LE and Mustang Mach 1. The second one is close to price to a one year old M2C so, I might as well consider it also.
OT, but are you coming back to Michigan next year?
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      10-17-2020, 12:15 PM   #19
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OT, but are you coming back to Michigan next year?
Yes sir, planning to be back before September of next year. Situation allowing.

I ask because I had a 2014 GT Track Pack mustang before. Those cars were also considered fairly reliable for track duty. I went down the rabbit hole with mine. Sways, springs, adjustable dampers, camber plates, brakes, wheels, tires and then CAI/Tune combo.

Car was solid for 5 seasons, but I kept getting quicker, and pushing harder, and being on throttle more, and on the 6th I started overheating it.

I want to make sure I have headroom in the cooling department in my next weekend warrior. Or at least a plan for what to do when I get to that bridge.
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      10-17-2020, 01:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
OT, but are you coming back to Michigan next year?
Yes sir, planning to be back before September of next year. Situation allowing.

I ask because I had a 2014 GT Track Pack mustang before. Those cars were also considered fairly reliable for track duty. I went down the rabbit hole with mine. Sways, springs, adjustable dampers, camber plates, brakes, wheels, tires and then CAI/Tune combo.

Car was solid for 5 seasons, but I kept getting quicker, and pushing harder, and being on throttle more, and on the 6th I started overheating it.

I want to make sure I have headroom in the cooling department in my next weekend warrior. Or at least a plan for what to do when I get to that bridge.
Just in time to hit a couple end of the year track days
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      10-17-2020, 02:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I have one other question. We all agree that M2C will do better on the cooling front.

But has anyone confirmed that in the summer climates of TX, FL AZ or CA the M2C doesn't pull timing? Or verified at what temp it starts to? I'd be interested to know as M2C might be on my list of potential cars when I get back stateside next year.

Right now that list is very limited. SS 1LE and Mustang Mach 1. The second one is close to price to a one year old M2C so, I might as well consider it also.
I've done 8 track days so far in the FL heat and humidity and like M2C AW have yet to experience any elevated engine temps or loss in power

Extremely impressed with the S55 cooling systems so far (knocks on wood)

EDIT - This is on the stock tune. If I were to add considerably more power (such as a Stage 1 tune) I would probably make some upgrades such as a new front heat exchanger and a new top mount intercooler
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      10-17-2020, 05:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C AW View Post
I have pushed the M2C at the track in Texas heat on multiple occasions and never had the first hint of high fluid temps...or loss of power....and I monitor oil and water temps continuously throughout each track session on the LED Read-out On the M-Sport steering wheel. It’s the first production based car I’ve owned that didn’t require upgrades to the fluid cooling systems..for DE type track use in the summer months (30 minute Sessions at 9/10th). BMW did their homework on the s55 cooling systems...I’d say.
I’m not aware of cooling issues in the 1LEs either...and they are fast. GM appears to have done their homework on them as well. On the other hand, several of the Mustang guys I’ve visited with track-side seem to experience cooling issues..unless they’re in a Gt350R..which must have some extra cooling capacity. The blue oval guys also Seem to complain about difficulty with warranty claims, while the GM guys say GM Coverage has been great with the 1LEs, including replacing blown engines in track cars.
.
Lots of version of the GT out there. I know 11-12 cars struggled. The 13-14 TP cars with Boss radiators and oil coolers did better. But were not immune, like mine.

But thank you for the info. Good to hear the M2C seems solid so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition View Post
I've done 8 track days so far in the FL heat and humidity and like M2C AW have yet to experience any elevated engine temps or loss in power

Extremely impressed with the S55 cooling systems so far (knocks on wood)

EDIT - This is on the stock tune. If I were to add considerably more power (such as a Stage 1 tune) I would probably make some upgrades such as a new front heat exchanger and a new top mount intercooler
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. The community knowledge is what's awesome about these forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Just in time to hit a couple end of the year track days
I hope! But it will be hard to source a car in time, unless I buy used. I still hope to make a showing. I'm planning a day on the 'Ring and a day at Spa in '21. Would be nice to finish with Grattan and Mid Ohio back stateside. That would be one epic season! If not '22 for sure!
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