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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      06-04-2020, 04:39 PM   #595
eeyang92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I don't think you will gain any power but it will surely prevent the engine from cutting timing when your stock intercooler is totally overwhelmed after a 20min session.

I really felt it on long stretches with the oem intercooler, I now have the comp 1 and I saw a difference. For now I find the stock power adequate for track day but It was frustrating to feel the loss of power.
This so true. I would notice my top speed go down by several MPH on stock IC after just a few laps, every single session. I recently installed a new intercooler as well, can't wait to test it out.
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      06-04-2020, 05:36 PM   #596
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I'm convinced even on the road I have experienced pulled timing .

Car just doesn't seem as fast and aggressive. Car cools a bit then next pull is mega again like the car has been temporarily mapped.
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      06-04-2020, 05:50 PM   #597
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It was 80-90 degrees today depending on where I was and I did some highway pulls and some back road driving in offline mode with BM3 but it failed to log ANY of the data probably because I didn't log in. Super annoying.

Anyway with Wagner Evo Comp 2 IAT seemed to float around 90-110 so I guess average around 100 depending on what I was doing. Using ACN stage one tune on BM3. Definitely much cooler on the back roads because it doesn't feel safe to rev it all the way up top over and over on these roads so I never even get close to really heat soaking the IC. The back to back to back pulls on the highway to redline seems to stress the IC more.

If I recall correctly with the stock IC it was getting to like 135+ on a hot day with like one pull so obviously this intercooler is a lot better than stock. How good is it relative to a competing product, and does it really cool off faster between WOT I couldn't say.

Last edited by akkando; 06-04-2020 at 06:00 PM..
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      06-04-2020, 08:11 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It's not so much power you will gain it's power you will lose when the ECU pulls timing because IAT temps.
This is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
This so true. I would notice my top speed go down by several MPH on stock IC after just a few laps, every single session. I recently installed a new intercooler as well, can't wait to test it out.
This is also correct. The car will pull timing if IATs get too high. Which is why you want the most thermal capacity when selecting an intercooler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
I'm convinced even on the road I have experienced pulled timing .

Car just doesn't seem as fast and aggressive. Car cools a bit then next pull is mega again like the car has been temporarily mapped.
This happens, especially when a car is at a standstill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It was 80-90 degrees today depending on where I was and I did some highway pulls and some back road driving in offline mode with BM3 but it failed to log ANY of the data probably because I didn't log in. Super annoying.

Anyway with Wagner Evo Comp 2 IAT seemed to float around 90-110 so I guess average around 100 depending on what I was doing. Using ACN stage one tune on BM3. Definitely much cooler on the back roads because it doesn't feel safe to rev it all the way up top over and over on these roads so I never even get close to really heat soaking the IC. The back to back to back pulls on the highway to redline seems to stress the IC more.

If I recall correctly with the stock IC it was getting to like 135+ on a hot day with like one pull so obviously this intercooler is a lot better than stock. How good is it relative to a competing product, and does it really cool off faster between WOT I couldn't say.
The Evo2 has more thermal capacity than the stock intercooler (It takes longer to heat up) but it cools down at the same rate. In fact, the Evo 2 does not cool down faster than any of the other intercoolers of the same size.
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      06-15-2020, 01:19 PM   #599
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Wagner EVO III

Thank you ZM2!

Alright, here are some logs on the first version of my E45 Jordan Tuned map. The map itself feels similar to OTS Stg 2 E30, so we'll amp it up in coming revisions. I'll limit my comments in this thread to just IATs.

In general, the Evo3 stays ~20F above ambient when rolling around town or just cruising, and ~25-35F if you're in traffic or stop & go. But, it drops to ~15F above ambient as soon as you accelerate or go WOT, and temps remain stable thru 5th gear. Examples:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...0b432aeba26ce8
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...729b0f2d41897e

Here's a similar pull where I was in traffic before pulling out for clean air and doing a pull. Ambient/IAT delta starts at 35F, but drops to 19F thru 4th gear:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...90c61ca6d7fd52

And here are some back to back 3-4 pulls with hard braking in between. Ambient/IAT delta drops to 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increases to 26F after the 7th pull. This compares to a 50F ambient/IAT delta increase with my Evo2 in back to back pulls (second link):

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...729b0ea9b3c476
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d72...90c6192c630438

Overall, it's interesting how this IC behaves. Ambient/IAT delta when driving normally isn't anything to write home about, but isn't bad either. But, when under load the Evo3's ability to shed heat and keep the ambient/IAT delta in check is pretty impressive, especially into 5th gear.

How it will perform on a hot track day is still an open question. Altho, from previous experience I can say that my method of back-to-back street pulls and hard braking are pretty taxing and just about as taxing (temp wise) as when I'm on track. As SeanWRT once said, my street logs highlight the excellent stopping power of my AP Racing BBK.


Lastly, I didn’t have room to wring it out thru 5th on each pull like I wanted, so I’ll do try to do that as I get tune revisions so we can see how things hold up as I’m really taxing the car.

Either way, I'm pretty stoked about the Evo3 and what looks to be good WOT IAT management during back to back pulls from an IC that doesn't increase lag, doesn't weight 40lbs, and that mounts securely to the crash bumper.
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      06-15-2020, 10:22 PM   #600
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Thanks Mike.

Here are some good 3-4-5 pulls with the Evo3 and hard braking in between. This is also with revision 1 (18.7psi, 11deg timing) of my Cary Jordan base map (17.2psi, 11deg timing) and it feels like we're making a decent bit more power!

In summary, ambient/IAT delta maintained 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increased to 25F in the longest back to back 5th gear pull. Not bad considering we keep upping the hp on a Stg 2+ E45 map with Dinan turbo. Already requested revision 2!

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee7...0b431db2fb3a94

Last edited by ZM2; 06-15-2020 at 10:28 PM..
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      06-15-2020, 10:51 PM   #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Thanks Mike.

Here are some good 3-4-5 pulls with the Evo3 and hard braking in between. This is also with revision 1 (18.7psi, 11deg timing) of my Cary Jordan base map (17.2psi, 11deg timing) and it feels like we're making a decent bit more power!

In summary, ambient/IAT delta maintained 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increased to 25F in the longest back to back 5th gear pull. Not bad considering we keep upping the hp on a Stg 2+ E45 map with Dinan turbo. Already requested revision 2!

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee7...0b431db2fb3a94
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      08-19-2020, 12:11 PM   #602
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      10-10-2020, 02:44 PM   #603
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Hey Mike, so is the Wagner EVO I or II Competition the only tube and fin IC you currently offer?
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      10-10-2020, 04:24 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
Hey Mike, so is the Wagner EVO I or II Competition the only tube and fin IC you currently offer?
Correct, Wagner Tuning Competition line is the only tube and fin intercoolers we offer
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