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      03-11-2019, 06:29 AM   #243
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Anyone here running a LCI DCT M2 with a JB4 and Wagner Evo2 Comp IC as the only mods? I would like to know what Map you are using with 98 RON fuel
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      03-11-2019, 07:02 AM   #244
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Anyone here running a LCI DCT M2 with a JB4 and Wagner Evo2 Comp IC as the only mods? I would like to know what Map you are using with 98 RON fuel
If using stock DP, I'd stick with map 1 or try autotuning map 5.

If you datalog both and see/feel some good gains with map 5 vs map 1, then use map 5 datalogs to create a custom map [map 6].

FWIW, I'd suggest upgrade stock DP to either a decat of 200CPI HFC DP to get most out of yr JB4 on yr m2.
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      03-11-2019, 10:33 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVersi View Post
Anyone here running a LCI DCT M2 with a JB4 and Wagner Evo2 Comp IC as the only mods? I would like to know what Map you are using with 98 RON fuel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
If using stock DP, I'd stick with map 1 or try autotuning map 5.

If you datalog both and see/feel some good gains with map 5 vs map 1, then use map 5 datalogs to create a custom map [map 6].

FWIW, I'd suggest upgrade stock DP to either a decat of 200CPI HFC DP to get most out of yr JB4 on yr m2.
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      03-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
WideT,

If you are concerned about lag due to upgraded FMIC, I can recommend - 1st hand - adding Pure or FTP hi flo inlet pipe [removes a restriction on the inlet side of the turbo] to offset the lag.

Works very well, provided you are choosing the right FMIC ie one with low pressure losses between inlet and outlet.

FWIW, I had Wagner Comp Evo II on my stg 2 JB4'd M135i and will be fitting CSF to my BM3'd M2.

BP
Hi BP,

I was only talking about this part with a friend yesterday as I was unsure how much benefit would really be realised without a bigger turbo. Was you experience with the hi flo turbo inlet based on a stock or already tuned car?

I'm very interested in anything that minimised turbo lag.

Cheers.
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      03-11-2019, 02:07 PM   #247
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Re IAT's - obviously the lower the better, but is there a temperature range that is usually aimed for?

Also, what would be the max temps seen before an engine started protecting itself?
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      03-11-2019, 02:21 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
WideT,

If you are concerned about lag due to upgraded FMIC, I can recommend - 1st hand - adding Pure or FTP hi flo inlet pipe [removes a restriction on the inlet side of the turbo] to offset the lag.

Works very well, provided you are choosing the right FMIC ie one with low pressure losses between inlet and outlet.

FWIW, I had Wagner Comp Evo II on my stg 2 JB4'd M135i and will be fitting CSF to my BM3'd M2.

BP
Hi BP,

I was only talking about this part with a friend yesterday as I was unsure how much benefit would really be realised without a bigger turbo. Was you experience with the hi flo turbo inlet based on a stock or already tuned car?

I'm very interested in anything that minimised turbo lag.

Cheers.
+1 I really like to hear this as well because I'm thinking either use FTP's Inlet pipe or Pure Turbo(with bigger size than stock) if I stay in the stock turbo.

Thanks
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      03-11-2019, 07:02 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
WideT,

If you are concerned about lag due to upgraded FMIC, I can recommend - 1st hand - adding Pure or FTP hi flo inlet pipe [removes a restriction on the inlet side of the turbo] to offset the lag.

Works very well, provided you are choosing the right FMIC ie one with low pressure losses between inlet and outlet.

FWIW, I had Wagner Comp Evo II on my stg 2 JB4'd M135i and will be fitting CSF to my BM3'd M2.

BP
Hi BP,

I was only talking about this part with a friend yesterday as I was unsure how much benefit would really be realised without a bigger turbo. Was you experience with the hi flo turbo inlet based on a stock or already tuned car?

I'm very interested in anything that minimised turbo lag.

Cheers.
WideT

M2 stock inlet pipe is same part as fitted to early F2x m135i and F3x 335i with PWG turbo. Inlet ID is ideal for smaller PWG turbo compressor wheel. The later EWG turbo - as fitted to m2 - has larger comp wheel hence oem inlet pipe is restrictive by default.

On my JB4 tuned EWG n55 in my m135i - the Pure hi Flo inlet pipe helped the car to punch harder longer higher up the rev range. Areas under power and torque curves grew by about 20 & 30% respectively. No brainer imho for n55 in my m2.
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      03-11-2019, 07:06 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
WideT,

If you are concerned about lag due to upgraded FMIC, I can recommend - 1st hand - adding Pure or FTP hi flo inlet pipe [removes a restriction on the inlet side of the turbo] to offset the lag.

Works very well, provided you are choosing the right FMIC ie one with low pressure losses between inlet and outlet.

FWIW, I had Wagner Comp Evo II on my stg 2 JB4'd M135i and will be fitting CSF to my BM3'd M2.

BP
Hi BP,

I was only talking about this part with a friend yesterday as I was unsure how much benefit would really be realised without a bigger turbo. Was you experience with the hi flo turbo inlet based on a stock or already tuned car?

I'm very interested in anything that minimised turbo lag.

Cheers.
WideT

M2 stock inlet pipe is same part as fitted to early F2x m135i and F3x 335i with PWG turbo. Inlet ID is ideal for smaller PWG turbo compressor wheel. The later EWG turbo - as fitted to m2 - has larger comp wheel hence oem inlet pipe is restrictive by default.

On my JB4 tuned EWG n55 in my m135i - the Pure hi Flo inlet pipe helped the car to punch harder longer higher up the rev range. Areas under power and torque curves grew by about 20 & 30% respectively. No brainer imho for n55 in my m2.
Cheers BP.

Added to the shopping list!
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      03-11-2019, 09:29 PM   #251
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The Evolution Racewerks intercooler is a quality FMIC, congrats!!
Thanks Mike
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      03-11-2019, 10:54 PM   #252
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Thanks Mike
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      03-30-2019, 02:08 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Wagner EVO I Competition or VRSF 5" High density
No.

I wouldn't do any of the Wagner products (or any stage 1 intercooler for that matter)

I'm more interested in the ER, VSFR and CF (ATM?) products.


Wagner getting walked all over.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971
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      03-30-2019, 02:26 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No.

I wouldn't do any of the Wagner products (or any stage 1 intercooler for that matter)

I'm more interested in the ER, VSFR and CF (ATM?) products.


Wagner getting walked all over.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971
The Wagner is a tube and fin. Less thermal mass to dissipate heat. Not really fair to compare to a bar and plate as they're significantly heavier... of course their gonna be cooler. Benefit is in weight savings for Wagner. And it does a very, very good job at cooling comparatively for what it is.

But I do agree any 5" intercooler isn't worth it.
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      03-30-2019, 02:29 AM   #255
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The Wagner is a tube and fin. Less thermal mass to dissipate heat. Not really fair to compare to a bar and plate as they're significantly heavier... of course their gonna be cooler. Benefit is in weight savings for Wagner. And it does a very, very good job at cooling comparatively for what it is.

But I do agree any 5" intercooler isn't worth it.
It's a "stage 2" cooler that got walked all over when used appropriately. 10lbs isn't a game changer when people are adding that in unprung weight to the wheels.

It's not that it's a "bad product" there is just clearly a superior option.

I don't see people talk about ER here anymore though - I was under the understanding it was "the best"
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      03-30-2019, 02:39 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
It's a "stage 2" cooler that got walked all over when used appropriately. 10lbs isn't a game changer when people are adding that in unprung weight to the wheels.

It's not that it's a "bad product" there is just clearly a superior option.

I don't see people talk about ER here anymore though - I was under the understanding it was "the best"
7F lower intercooler temp isn't a big difference either. Not gonna be able to push more hp with that in our cars. So I'll take the weight savings. But like I've explained, this isn't a fair comparision. Of course something with more thermal mass is going to dissipate heat better. Everyone knew that already.
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      03-30-2019, 02:54 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
7F lower intercooler temp isn't a big difference either. Not gonna be able to push more hp with that in our cars. So I'll take the weight savings. But like I've explained, this isn't a fair comparision. Of course something with more thermal mass is going to dissipate heat better. Everyone knew that already.
Just buy the superior product the first time through. You’re not going to notice 10lbs either, but here you are pretending it makes a difference.
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      03-30-2019, 02:58 AM   #258
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7" VRSF combined with DEI Water sprayer and Cry02 C02 intercooler sprayer....I can bring my I/C to -40*F before or during a run. Keeps IATS under 90* on hottest days
...
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      03-30-2019, 05:11 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by DKM2Power View Post
7" VRSF combined with DEI Water sprayer and Cry02 C02 intercooler sprayer....I can bring my I/C to -40*F before or during a run. Keeps IATS under 90* on hottest days
...
Very nice, but there are downsides to your setup.

1) Your IC sprayer + CO2 sprayer are consumable, once they run out the IATS will spike again, plus they don't last very long on constant spray for track usage. For drag racing it is a very nice setup, something I've played around with on my various subarus due to the top mount intercooler not getting any air flow when the car is stopped thus getting heat soaked.

2) The water spraying imo isn't very ideal because the engine bay eventually gets really humid and that attributes to corrosion.

3) I don't know if this is a huge issue with the BMW crowd since no one has really pushed very far with CO2 cooling, and the Intercooler is front mounted. But in the subaru community IIRC there was a case where the top mount intercooler was sprayed with excessive CO2 it filled the engine bay and got sucked into the intake and messed up afrs. This only happened when the car was at low speeds.

4) Adding extra water and a CO2 bottle also adds alot of weight, but the gains are very nice.

IMO this setup is probably better for drag racing since you only need to have enough consumables for 1 pull vs. a track session where you can go for 15mins - 1 hour or more.


Overall that sounds like a sweet setup man, do you have any pictures or a thread I can look at?
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      03-30-2019, 08:22 AM   #260
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Just buy the superior product the first time through. You’re not going to notice 10lbs either, but here you are pretending it makes a difference.
I'm not pretending either is better. From the very beginning I took the stance that it's subjective and depends what you want. 10lbs or 7F cooler. Neither make a difference, neither is superior, and neither are comparable. You're the one touting one is better than the other. Don't be a jerk.
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      03-30-2019, 08:56 AM   #261
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Quote:
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Just buy the superior product the first time through. You’re not going to notice 10lbs either, but here you are pretending it makes a difference.
Lots of subjective reviews out there (including the one you linked to) that the larger ICs like ATM, CSF, etc, have more lag than the Evo 2 Comp. Coming from NA and supercharged engines before my Dinan turbo M2, that’s a non-starter for me.

10lbs on the very nose of the car (for the track) and no lag (for the street) is worth more to me than a few deg F. ICs are all a balancing act, just depends on what you want out of them for your situation.
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      03-30-2019, 09:27 AM   #262
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Lots of subjective reviews out there (including the one you linked to) that the larger ICs like ATM, CSF, etc, have more lag than the Evo 2 Comp. Coming from NA and supercharged engines before my Dinan turbo M2, that’s a non-starter for me.

10lbs on the very nose of the car (for the track) and no lag (for the street) is worth more to me than a few deg F. ICs are all a balancing act, just depends on what you want out of them for your situation.
It was 10degs, and no noted lag. He als pointed out that the ATM was superior for the reasons you listed (drivability) than the CSF intercooler.

I just really don’t see the use in recommending someone a ‘stage 1’ intercooler, especially in a brand that really just doesn’t perform as well during aggressive driving.

Last edited by Taskmaster; 03-30-2019 at 11:21 AM..
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      03-30-2019, 09:31 AM   #263
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It was 10degs, and no noted lag. He als pointed out that the ATM was superior for the reasons you listed (drivability) than the CSF intercooler.

I just really don’t see the use in recommending someone a ‘stage 1’ intercooler, it a brand that really just doesn’t perform as well during aggressive driving.
From the review you linked to:

“A Note on Lag
Measurements elsewhere have shown that the Wagner EVO 2 Comp should flow a bit better than the ATM. Paying attention to lag while accelerating from a stop, and also watching my fuel economy meter seem to confirm that. Accelerating form a stop my fuel economy meter drops to about mid to high 8mpgs with the Wagner. With the ATM it's in the low 8s. The lag is slightly more with the ATM”

No thanks.
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      03-30-2019, 09:34 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No.

I wouldn't do any of the Wagner products (or any stage 1 intercooler for that matter)

I'm more interested in the ER, VSFR and CF (ATM?) products.


Wagner getting walked all over.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971
People tend to only compare IAT rise with an intercooler, if thats all that mattered, get the largest core with most fins.

One needs to compare pressure air drop, IAT recovery after each pull and weight (weight is more of a factor on the track). All these would come in favor of tube and fin core like the Wagner.

Lots of really good options available, it just depends on the application and HP goals.
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