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      10-06-2020, 06:29 PM   #1
mr_lab_rat
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Throttle sensitivity options

DCT owners probably don't care as much but if you have a manual, chances are that the default driving modes are not ideal:
  • comfort - lazy mapping
  • sport - good response but TCS and ASC take away the fun
  • sport+ - almost perfect but the pedal feels like on/off switch, just too aggressive
  • traction - MDM mode is great fun but the throttle response is lazy like comfort mode and it uses standard cooling
  • TCS/ASC off - almost perfect but no rev matching and I kinda prefer the safety of the MDM mode. I believe the throttle mapping and engine cooling is the same as Sport which is what I want.

The mode I really want is Sport+ with the Sport throttle response and I don't think I'm alone.

But getting there is tricky.

Here is what I found so far:
  1. BM3 custom tune - cost probably around $1000. Advantage - extra power, deal with stuff like cold start noise, possibility to enable rev match with TCS/ASC off.
  2. Pedal tuner - small piggy back box to modify pedal input, around $300. Some of them only offer sharper response but some have an "eco" setting that could probably dull the response in Sport+

Is there another option? I basically just want two modes with easy switching in between them:
Street driving - Sport pedal, TCS/ASC on, regular cooling, rev match
Track/spirited drive - Sport pedal, MDM mode, sport cooling, rev match
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      10-06-2020, 09:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
DCT owners probably don't care as much but if you have a manual, chances are that the default driving modes are not ideal:
  • comfort - lazy mapping
  • sport - good response but TCS and ASC take away the fun
  • sport+ - almost perfect but the pedal feels like on/off switch, just too aggressive
  • traction - MDM mode is great fun but the throttle response is lazy like comfort mode and it uses standard cooling
  • TCS/ASC off - almost perfect but no rev matching and I kinda prefer the safety of the MDM mode. I believe the throttle mapping and engine cooling is the same as Sport which is what I want.

The mode I really want is Sport+ with the Sport throttle response and I don't think I'm alone.

But getting there is tricky.

Here is what I found so far:
  1. BM3 custom tune - cost probably around $1000. Advantage - extra power, deal with stuff like cold start noise, possibility to enable rev match with TCS/ASC off.
  2. Pedal tuner - small piggy back box to modify pedal input, around $300. Some of them only offer sharper response but some have an "eco" setting that could probably dull the response in Sport+

Is there another option? I basically just want two modes with easy switching in between them:
Street driving - Sport pedal, TCS/ASC on, regular cooling, rev match
Track/spirited drive - Sport pedal, MDM mode, sport cooling, rev match
Get the BM3 license and it will let you edit the stock tune. There's configurable maps for throttle modes, you can copy/paste the table values from sport to sport+. You can also configure it to keep rev match on in any mode. You won't get any power increases though since this is the stock map.

PTF locks the map tables for their OTS tunes so you wouldn't be able to edit the throttle mapping but it does let you configure rev match for any mode.

Last edited by PackPride85; 10-06-2020 at 09:43 PM..
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      10-06-2020, 10:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Get the BM3 license and it will let you edit the stock tune. There's configurable maps for throttle modes, you can copy/paste the table values from sport to sport+. You can also configure it to keep rev match on in any mode. You won't get any power increases though since this is the stock map.

PTF locks the map tables for their OTS tunes so you wouldn't be able to edit the throttle mapping but it does let you configure rev match for any mode.
Oh sweet, I didn't know the stock tune can do that. That's even better as it cuts the price of that solution in half.
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      10-07-2020, 02:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
DCT owners probably don't care as much but if you have a manual, chances are that the default driving modes are not ideal.........
I had identical wants, my research indicated BM3 the only tune/software available that could change/customise throttle mapping for driving modes. PTF advised me I could use the throttle custom options but only if keeping the stock tune, incorporating throttle changes with a tune requires a custom job. I ended up going the custom tune route, Sport+ throttle deleted & replaced with Sport so I now have identical throttle (Sport) in every mode except Comfort (which I only use to get engine to operating temp quicker). I also added rev-match to DSC OFF. It all works perfectly.

There are a couple of brands of 'pedal tuners' but they aren't cheap and I didn't explore whether they could 'memorise' settings for different driving modes, would be a pain if you had to adjust the pedal setting when going between Sport/Sport+.
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      10-07-2020, 07:51 PM   #5
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I had a pedal tuner on my M240 that was great. Highly recommend, but havent heard anything about one for the DCT gearbox.
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      10-07-2020, 08:57 PM   #6
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From your post it sounds like you have an og m2.
M2c mapping is independent of traction mode. 👍
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      10-07-2020, 09:59 PM   #7
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I suppose if you regularly switch between modes, the variation in throttle sensitivity can make it a bit annoying.

But the car is just as responsive and just as powerful in every different mode, provided your right foot provides the right amount of input. Sport+ "feels" more responsive but in reality, you can get just as much response out of the car by simply pressing harder on the throttle.

So rather than spending money to recalibrate my throttle, I've just allowed my brain to recalibrate by getting used to it. I see no disadvantage in performance at all.

Comfort and traction actually have a very linear throttle response. The other modes have a negative exponential response where almost everything happens in the first half of the pedal travel and the remainder does very little. I prefer the extra finesse available at part throttle but as always, YMMV.

If any of you have any experience flying RC aircraft and programming "expo" on your transmitter, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
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      10-07-2020, 10:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
I suppose if you regularly switch between modes, the variation in throttle sensitivity can make it a bit annoying.

But the car is just as responsive and just as powerful in every different mode, provided your right foot provides the right amount of input. Sport+ "feels" more responsive but in reality, you can get just as much response out of the car by simply pressing harder on the throttle.

So rather than spending money to recalibrate my throttle, I've just allowed my brain to recalibrate by getting used to it. I see no disadvantage in performance at all.

Comfort and traction actually have a very linear throttle response. The other modes have a negative exponential response where almost everything happens in the first half of the pedal travel and the remainder does very little. I prefer the extra finesse available at part throttle but as always, YMMV.

If any of you have any experience flying RC aircraft and programming "expo" on your transmitter, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
This is essentially what the throttle tables look like. The problem with sport+ is that you lose resolution. At 69% throttle input you're getting 90% max torque request. In sport it 69% throttle averages at around 75% max torque(depends on RPM). That extra resolution makes a world of difference in some situations.
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Last edited by PackPride85; 10-07-2020 at 10:31 PM..
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      10-08-2020, 06:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
I suppose if you regularly switch between modes, the variation in throttle sensitivity can make it a bit annoying.

But the car is just as responsive and just as powerful in every different mode, provided your right foot provides the right amount of input. Sport+ "feels" more responsive but in reality, you can get just as much response out of the car by simply pressing harder on the throttle.

So rather than spending money to recalibrate my throttle, I've just allowed my brain to recalibrate by getting used to it. I see no disadvantage in performance at all.

Comfort and traction actually have a very linear throttle response. The other modes have a negative exponential response where almost everything happens in the first half of the pedal travel and the remainder does very little. I prefer the extra finesse available at part throttle but as always, YMMV.

If any of you have any experience flying RC aircraft and programming "expo" on your transmitter, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
The problem I see with the Comfort (& therefore Traction) throttle is the slow engine response (not amount) of rev-match and the delayed drop in rpm off throttle or when clutch depressed (rev hang). It doesn't go well with fast shifting/hard driving.

Sport+ throttle imo doesn't go well with near/on-limit driving, on track I find there is very very little difference in throttle between a fast near perfect corner exit and going sideways. With my original iStep (July 17 LCI) it was less an issue as even with MDM the traction control would intervene, not so after my iStep was update Dec 18 (to F020-18-11-531). I suspect even the best professional racer wouldn't like Sport+ throttle.

With Sport throttle the engine rpm responds (up & down) like an old cabled accelerator. At 0-20% of peddle the power delivery is identical to Comfort and thereafter the increase is gradual (at least to me). It's a lot easier (& safer) pushing the car on the limit.

To me it's apparent the manual transmission didn't get too much consideration when they decided on set-up of the OG driving modes (& lack of user customisation), not unlike the arm rest design (height) which is clearly a result of auto/DCT transmission R&D cars.

Last edited by David.m; 10-08-2020 at 05:41 PM..
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      10-08-2020, 04:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j0oftheworld View Post
From your post it sounds like you have an og m2.
M2c mapping is independent of traction mode. 👍
Oh, the M2C can change throttle response independent of the traction control? That's cool.

Yes, I have the OG so I'll have to find another way.
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      10-08-2020, 04:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
I suppose if you regularly switch between modes, the variation in throttle sensitivity can make it a bit annoying.

But the car is just as responsive and just as powerful in every different mode, provided your right foot provides the right amount of input. Sport+ "feels" more responsive but in reality, you can get just as much response out of the car by simply pressing harder on the throttle.

So rather than spending money to recalibrate my throttle, I've just allowed my brain to recalibrate by getting used to it. I see no disadvantage in performance at all.

Comfort and traction actually have a very linear throttle response. The other modes have a negative exponential response where almost everything happens in the first half of the pedal travel and the remainder does very little. I prefer the extra finesse available at part throttle but as always, YMMV.

If any of you have any experience flying RC aircraft and programming "expo" on your transmitter, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
Yeah, I get your point and I do understand how the mapping curves work. But in my case I'm completely missing a mode for track driving - sport throttle, sport cooling, MDM. And I find it really annoying trying to shift smoothly when the throttle pedal does different thing in each mode.
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      10-08-2020, 07:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
Yeah, I get your point and I do understand how the mapping curves work. But in my case I'm completely missing a mode for track driving - sport throttle, sport cooling, MDM. And I find it really annoying trying to shift smoothly when the throttle pedal does different thing in each mode.
No worries. The complaint seems more common with 6MT drivers and I can understand why. I've had plenty of manual cars (still have one) but my M2 is DCT and I drive it almost exclusively with the paddle shifters which of course don't require throttle lift or manual rev-matching when changing gears.

Sport throttle and MDM would be the sweet spot for a lot of people on the OG M2. I wish we had that choice but apparently, die Deutschen wissen es am besten.
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      10-08-2020, 07:35 PM   #13
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Speaking of Germans knowing best, it reminds me of a discussion I had with a German friend of mine about which direction sequential shifting gearboxes should work.

Some makers will have 1st gear towards the driver and you push forward to move up gears - these are typically developed from cars with older style automatics that used to have D, 2, 1 on the selector. My previous Volvo was like that.

Then there is the PDK, BMW, etc method with 1st gear away from the driver and pull towards you for second etc.

My friend said in his thick accent:

It's simple, you can do it the German way or you can do it the wrong way.
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      10-09-2020, 10:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
Speaking of Germans knowing best, it reminds me of a discussion I had with a German friend of mine about which direction sequential shifting gearboxes should work.

Some makers will have 1st gear towards the driver and you push forward to move up gears - these are typically developed from cars with older style automatics that used to have D, 2, 1 on the selector. My previous Volvo was like that.

Then there is the PDK, BMW, etc method with 1st gear away from the driver and pull towards you for second etc.

My friend said in his thick accent:

It's simple, you can do it the German way or you can do it the wrong way.
Heh, I have German friends and they say the same thing. In case of sequential shifting I see it being logical - follow the G forces - downshift forward, upshift back.
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      10-09-2020, 11:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
No worries. The complaint seems more common with 6MT drivers and I can understand why. I've had plenty of manual cars (still have one) but my M2 is DCT and I drive it almost exclusively with the paddle shifters which of course don't require throttle lift or manual rev-matching when changing gears.

Sport throttle and MDM would be the sweet spot for a lot of people on the OG M2. I wish we had that choice but apparently, die Deutschen wissen es am besten.
Agree 100%. This car needs the option of Sport throttle mapping coupled with traction control off but stability control on (MDM mode.) It is far too tail happy to be running such an extreme throttle curve in Sport+... small inputs just have too dramatic an effect. Conversely, it is far too conservative putting power down in Sport because traction control is on.
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      10-09-2020, 02:26 PM   #16
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another option is m2c
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