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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > Carbon ceramic brakes: why (not) getting the 2NK option (M-CCB) ?

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      09-14-2020, 05:47 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty racer View Post
What's the cost to add the CCB option in US car? My SA is saying they don't have pricing yet but he is assuming $8.5k
Thats right.
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      10-04-2020, 07:59 PM   #68
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Thought this would be the right place to show this, any of you seen this video before, really incredible the process for making these brakes.

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      10-04-2020, 08:26 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
This is the part I understand the most. Either set of brakes will be great but this car is unique because of things like the CCB option,
I'm leaning towards having them.
This ^^. Misano blue, gold wheels, PSC2s, CCBs -- all unique to the CS. Can't go wrong by ticking these boxes.
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      10-04-2020, 08:30 PM   #70
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Two earlier comments:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
About carbon ceramic brakes in general: last Spring a Porsche tech rep sparked controversy:
  • see here ("«Forget what you think you know about carbon ceramic brakes»: Porsche");
  • and here ("Porsche tech rep says carbon brakes are not the best for track use - PCCB system best for «people who don't like cleaning their wheels»").
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
The refurb cost is a nice benefit. I would argue that this would be a better way to go carbon than equipping the CS with CCB. In my opinion the surface transform rotors are superior to Brembo.
Allow me to steal 5 minutes of your life to show you how Brembo is making these things:

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      10-05-2020, 02:13 AM   #71
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I've gone for the standard upgraded steel brakes for several reasons

1. cost
2. It looks like for street driving the steels brakes have less risk of squeal and don't need to be warmed up or have lesser efficacy in wet conditions
3. Even if I were to consider tracking I've seen the joe Achilles view that the CCBs for the CS are too large for the wheel size which means they overheat and render the car not workable after some time under track conditions (which seems against the whole point of the CCBs)

In these situations the only reasons I can see for the CCBs are the
1. Look of the gold callipers
2. Exclusivity to CS

Both seems pretty questionable reasons unless you don't have anything better to spend the money on.
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      10-05-2020, 06:11 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thxbuff2001 View Post
If you track, use steel. If you will do daily, then CCB.
Now i have it in my f10 m5 and will add it again. Will do occasional driving events.
Isn't the only reason that the manufactures include the CCB option is for better track performance? The carbon ceramics have virtually no brake fade under heat, and I would guess the people that buy M2CS will have money to replace their track toy rotors...

Edit:
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/wa...for-track-use/
It seems like it's degrading very fast on track. Sounds like an quite confusing option when it's designed for track but not actually recommended for track.
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      10-05-2020, 06:39 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Isn't the only reason that the manufactures include the CCB option is for better track performance? The carbon ceramics have virtually no brake fade under heat, and I would guess the people that buy M2CS will have money to replace their track toy rotors...

Edit:
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/wa...for-track-use/
It seems like it's degrading very fast on track. Sounds like an quite confusing option when it's designed for track but not actually recommended for track.
This is one of those items, much like the CS in general, that including "cost" into the equation muddies the water. The CCB option is mostly superior to the steel option across the board.

Equal braking, less thermal variance in performance, no brake dust, lighter weight, don't rust, longer life, look really good.

Squeal seems to be limited by propper bed in. Don't underestimate how long of a process this is, and can't be found in any bmw literature. Look to Corvette forum.

Initial wet weather bite is reduced. This appears to be real, adapting your driving style to this phenomenan seems to be the cure. Bed in may help and so may choosing I different brake pad compound. It's due to s slightly longer time required to get heat into brakes. I had this same issue with steal brakes on my Jaguar. It's not a fun feeling.

Why I didn't equip:

1. Cost
2. Worry
3. Wet weather performance since this is DD.

Worrying about getting a chipped rotor from road debris, reducing life with hard driving, ensuring pad replacement at 50% life, degraded wet weather performance. Not being able to buy my tires at Costco for fear they chip a rotor.

Last edited by medphysdave; 10-05-2020 at 06:48 AM..
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      10-05-2020, 08:28 AM   #74
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The only drawback is cost. I have had multiple carbon brake vehicles and the wet performance is no worse than steel brake cars. All cars initial bite is reduced when it's wet, Mercedes has been dragging their pads in the rain for many years to prevent this.

Yes, they are expensive if you track the car a lot. If you don't track it then they are actually a maintenance free brake setup as 99.9% of us will never wear the rotors or even pads out. They don't wear out by time....ask yourself, are you going to put 100k plus miles on this car? I doubt I'll put 10k on it....

Iron brakes produce loads of dust, like more than any other manufacturer I have ever seen. Carbon, close to zero. They are lighter and it is noticeable. They bite better, they resist fade better (if you track it). They are just a much nicer brake system.

As I said, the only real drawback is cost, everything else is justification for not getting them. I am a huge carbon brake fan for street use. Track use, it's a bad financial decision not to swap to steel rotors. Girodisc makes a steel rotor kit that fits the carbon system calipers on 911's. That's the good play.
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      10-05-2020, 08:58 AM   #75
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If I could have got red callipers on carbon I would probably have gone for that. Don't like the gold.
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      10-05-2020, 11:07 AM   #76
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In general:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
What the papers said: about servicing M-CCB, see pages 20 to 26 here (2013).

Way more delicate to handle than steel brakes.

Some M-CCB trivia: here (2014).
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      10-05-2020, 01:55 PM   #77
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good deal on rotors if these are correct size. $11k for rotors and calipers.

https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...JjaCBSZXN1bHRz
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      10-05-2020, 02:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Isn't the only reason that the manufactures include the CCB option is for better track performance? The carbon ceramics have virtually no brake fade under heat, and I would guess the people that buy M2CS will have money to replace their track toy rotors...

<snip...>
I would doubt they offer them for track use, since most manufactures consider track use "abuse" at least for warranty purposes.

My guess is that they offer them either to try and recoup some of their racing development costs or more likely b/c people said they really want them and are willing to pay.
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      10-05-2020, 02:29 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
I would doubt they offer them for track use, since most manufactures consider track use "abuse" at least for warranty purposes.

My guess is that they offer them either to try and recoup some of their racing development costs or more likely b/c people said they really want them and are willing to pay.
Quote:
An optional M carbon-ceramic brake in matt gold is available for racetrack enthusiasts, while the racetrack-ready Cup tyres with semi-slick tread pattern have been specially matched to the M2 CS.
I quoted this directly from BMW's marketing material.. Go figure
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      10-24-2020, 11:28 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
Thought this would be the right place to show this, any of you seen this video before, really incredible the process for making these brakes.


Fascinating. Thanks for sharing
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      10-24-2020, 12:49 PM   #81
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If you are going to daily, CCB.
If you are going to track, Steel.
If you are going to occasional track, CCB.
If you are are keeping the car forever, steel or CCB.

Ived owned numerous cars with CCBs and this my experience and opinion.

What you read in the internet are worst case scenarios.

Eventually the gap in cost will be narrowed in the future jusy like anything else.

Of the CCBs that I have owned, I can rate the CCBs from best to least better.

1. BMW
2. Ferrari
3. Porsche

Thats why I ordered again the CCB in the CS. But I am thinking about changing it and making it a DCT since this would be a track car more than a family car for me.
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Last edited by thxbuff2001; 10-24-2020 at 12:59 PM..
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      10-24-2020, 02:35 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thxbuff2001 View Post
If you are going to daily, CCB.
If you are going to track, Steel.
If you are going to occasional track, CCB.
If you are are keeping the car forever, steel or CCB.

Ived owned numerous cars with CCBs and this my experience and opinion.

What you read in the internet are worst case scenarios.

Eventually the gap in cost will be narrowed in the future jusy like anything else.

Of the CCBs that I have owned, I can rate the CCBs from best to least better.

1. BMW
2. Ferrari
3. Porsche

Thats why I ordered again the CCB in the CS. But I am thinking about changing it and making it a DCT since this would be a track car more than a family car for me.
I'd go DCT for track car. This is from my very limited experience at the PDC in SC. The DCT was really nice to be able to keep hands on wheel all the time.

I think you are right about the CCB. I think there is far more positive experience that you don't hear about. They the discs are more delicate, but maybe the scenerios like rock damage are overblown. I decided to get steel and if I still yearn for them I'll add CCM discs later.
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      10-28-2020, 12:17 PM   #83
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+1 on DCT for track speed.....
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      10-28-2020, 02:13 PM   #84
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I changed my mind. Decided to go for the CCB's. It'll be nice having the lightest possible M2.

I've heard concern about certain wheel cleaning chemicals being bad for the finish on the rotors. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?

I'm planning to either do a stud conversion or use a pin or two in place of a wheel bolt when taking the wheels off. I asked my BMW master tech friend (been a BMW tech for over 18 years) about the official BMW dolly system referenced in this thread for wheel removal. He laughed for a second and said 'we don't even have one. Just be careful'. He also point out that the backing plate behind the rotor would protect the disc if you were to really mess up and drop the wheel while removing or installing. At any rate, I'm not concerned.

Excited for my MB on Gold/Gold! bling bling! hahaha
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      10-28-2020, 09:47 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
I changed my mind. Decided to go for the CCB's. It'll be nice having the lightest possible M2.

I've heard concern about certain wheel cleaning chemicals being bad for the finish on the rotors. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?

I'm planning to either do a stud conversion or use a pin or two in place of a wheel bolt when taking the wheels off. I asked my BMW master tech friend (been a BMW tech for over 18 years) about the official BMW dolly system referenced in this thread for wheel removal. He laughed for a second and said 'we don't even have one. Just be careful'. He also point out that the backing plate behind the rotor would protect the disc if you were to really mess up and drop the wheel while removing or installing. At any rate, I'm not concerned.

Excited for my MB on Gold/Gold! bling bling! hahaha
I made last minute change to CCB for same reason. Goal is light car and this fits that goal. Excited to see/try them out. MB Gold n gold here too.
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      10-29-2020, 04:49 AM   #86
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BMW material states to use PH neutral and non acidic wheel cleaner. Other sources I read or viewed said to not get any soaps with gloss enhancers on the rotor either, so be careful with foam guns.
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      10-29-2020, 10:14 AM   #87
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I took all ///M2CSoptions except two:

-the carbon brakes are not essential they reduce the unsprung masses but do not brake better than the steel brakes and are very fragile and very expensive
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      10-29-2020, 05:10 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
BMW material states to use PH neutral and non acidic wheel cleaner. Other sources I read or viewed said to not get any soaps with gloss enhancers on the rotor either, so be careful with foam guns.
Honest question. Then how do you clean them...



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