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      10-13-2020, 08:37 PM   #45
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PRE-INSTALL UPDATE
We received the parts back from Jet Het Coatings after receiving their Ultra Extreme 2500 coating, and quickly shipped the exhaust manifold and turbo housing off to 300 Below for cryogenic processing.
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      10-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #46
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      10-14-2020, 09:09 PM   #47
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Damnnnnnnn, that's a nice manifold , can't wait to see the final dyno results
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      10-24-2020, 01:11 PM   #48
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Are you planning on running with the MAF sensor once you begin tuning? I personally had issues running MAFless. Curious to know what you have planned.
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      10-30-2020, 02:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ghost135i View Post
Are you planning on running with the MAF sensor once you begin tuning? I personally had issues running MAFless. Curious to know what you have planned.
I am planning to run the MAF, which is why we went with the Turbosmart Big Bubba blowoff valve that recirculates back into the intake. There was discussion about converting to speed density, but for now we're going this route and will see how it goes.
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      10-30-2020, 03:04 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost135i View Post
Are you planning on running with the MAF sensor once you begin tuning? I personally had issues running MAFless. Curious to know what you have planned.
I am planning to run the MAF, which is why we went with the Turbosmart Big Bubba blowoff valve that recirculates back into the intake. There was discussion about converting to speed density, but for now we're going this route and will see how it goes.
Seems like that's the general consensus. Looking forward to seeing how this works out. I'll be keeping an eye on the thread. Who is tuning you?
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      10-31-2020, 12:46 PM   #51
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Who is tuning you?
Not trying to be rude, but the answers to both your last question about the MAF and this question about who is tuning me are both in the original post on the first page. Might be worth a read if you're interested.
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      11-16-2020, 08:59 PM   #52
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Exclamation

TL;DR Power stutter combined with fuel and ignition issues has led to the decision to scrap the project based upon reliability concerns.

This is not the update I had planned to make, but it is with very mixed emotions I am letting the community know I am pulling the plug and abandoning this project. To understand why, you need to understand how I got to this point in the first place.

Since the installation of the Pure Stage 2 turbo and XDi-35 HPFP, I have experienced a random power stutter which seems to be a very widespread problem across similar configurations. Seeking a solution, I have replaced the spark plugs 3x with both OEM Bosch and NGK95706 and tried a range of different gaps. I replaced the O2 sensor. I tried two different tuning platforms, MHD and BM3, as well as tunes from different well known tuners and different OTS maps. I finally figured replacing the turbo, HPFP and all of the associated parts would be the likely solution - which is how this big turbo project was born.

Recent discussions with another forum member experiencing the same power stutter revealed that none of my new parts would likely solve the problem. I briefly figured it might be the ignition system and almost purchased the PR ignition kit, until I read another person with the same issue already tried that and still has the stutter. The other forum member also replaced their coils with OEM BMW units and still has the problem.

At this point, I have a theory the stutter is related to either the fuel injectors or the design of the HPFP. Regardless, the solution would mean adding port injection with secondary fuel injectors and either JB4 or a Split Second controller which adds another level of complexity to the project I was hoping to avoid.

I realized the project is reaching a level of customization and complexity where reliability will be questionable, and I do not endeavor to have a project car consuming all of my income. Reaching this decision wasn't easy; and although it has cost me several sleepless nights, I believe it is best in the long run to move to a different platform that will provide the power and handling I am looking for with a factory warranty.

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Last edited by nothingman; 11-17-2020 at 10:47 AM..
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      11-16-2020, 09:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
TL;DR Power stutter combined with fuel and ignition issues has led to the decision to scrap the project based upon reliability concerns.

This is not the update I had planned to make, but it is with very mixed emotions I am letting the community know I am pulling the plug and abandoning this project. To understand why, you need to understand how I got to this point in the first place.

Since the installation of the Pure Stage 2 turbo and XDi-35 HPFP, I have experienced a random power stutter which seems to be a very widespread problem across similar configurations. Seeking a solution, I have replaced the spark plugs 3x with both OEM Bosch and NGK95706 and tried a range of different gaps. I replaced the O2 sensor. I tried two different tuning platforms, MHD and BM3, as well as tunes from different well known tuners and different OTS maps. I finally figured replacing the turbo, HPFP and all of the associated parts would be the likely solution - which is how this big turbo project was born.

Recent discussions with another forum member experiencing the same power stutter revealed that none of my new parts would likely solve the problem. I briefly figured it might be the ignition system and almost purchased the PR ignition kit, until I read another person with the same issue already tried that and still has the stutter. The other forum member also replaced their coils with OEM BMW units and still has the problem.

At this point, I have a theory the stutter is related to either the fuel injectors or the design of the HPFP. Regardless, the solution would mean adding port injection with secondary fuel injectors and either JB4 or a Split Second controller which adds another level of complexity to the project I was hoping to avoid.

I realized the project is reaching a level of customization and complexity where reliability will be questionable, and I do not endeavor to have a project car consuming all of my income. Reaching this decision wasn't easy; and although it has cost me several sleepless nights, I believe it is best in the long run to move to a different platform that will provide the power and handling I am looking for with a factory warranty.

My nest step is to return the car to stock and sell it. I will be making a post in the member classifieds section tomorrow listing everything for sale off of the car. Be on the lookout if you are interested in anything off of the car listed on the first page.
Damn, sorry to hear about this turn of events. What platform are you going to be moving to next?
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      11-16-2020, 10:39 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
Damn, sorry to hear about this turn of events. What platform are you going to be moving to next?
I knew I wanted either an M2 CS or a Porsche GT4, so today I went and talked to a BMW dealer with an incoming CS as well as a couple of Porsche dealers. I saw this video showing the CS is neck-and-neck with the last gen GT4 in a drag race (and the new GT4 adds another 30hp) and this page showing the GT4 beating the CS around Hockenheim.

I ended up putting a deposit down on a 2021 Gentian Blue Porsche GT4 with a February build slot and April 2021 delivery.

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      11-17-2020, 01:49 PM   #55
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Awesome choice, a Porsche seems like the natural progression from BMW for most of us. And the GT4 is just amazing for the price.
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      11-17-2020, 07:26 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
TL;DR Power stutter combined with fuel and ignition issues has led to the decision to scrap the project based upon reliability concerns.

This is not the update I had planned to make, but it is with very mixed emotions I am letting the community know I am pulling the plug and abandoning this project. To understand why, you need to understand how I got to this point in the first place.

Since the installation of the Pure Stage 2 turbo and XDi-35 HPFP, I have experienced a random power stutter which seems to be a very widespread problem across similar configurations. Seeking a solution, I have replaced the spark plugs 3x with both OEM Bosch and NGK95706 and tried a range of different gaps. I replaced the O2 sensor. I tried two different tuning platforms, MHD and BM3, as well as tunes from different well known tuners and different OTS maps. I finally figured replacing the turbo, HPFP and all of the associated parts would be the likely solution - which is how this big turbo project was born.

Recent discussions with another forum member experiencing the same power stutter revealed that none of my new parts would likely solve the problem. I briefly figured it might be the ignition system and almost purchased the PR ignition kit, until I read another person with the same issue already tried that and still has the stutter. The other forum member also replaced their coils with OEM BMW units and still has the problem.

At this point, I have a theory the stutter is related to either the fuel injectors or the design of the HPFP. Regardless, the solution would mean adding port injection with secondary fuel injectors and either JB4 or a Split Second controller which adds another level of complexity to the project I was hoping to avoid.

I realized the project is reaching a level of customization and complexity where reliability will be questionable, and I do not endeavor to have a project car consuming all of my income. Reaching this decision wasn't easy; and although it has cost me several sleepless nights, I believe it is best in the long run to move to a different platform that will provide the power and handling I am looking for with a factory warranty.

ALL ITEMS FOR SALE ARE LISTED IN MEMBER CLASSIFIEDS! COME AND GET IT!
Sorry to hear you experienced all these issues, but could you elaborate a bit more on these power stutters?
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      11-18-2020, 04:59 PM   #57
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Sorry to hear. I think you will be very happy with the experience the GT4 will provide however. Please elaborate on this stuttering issue you are talking about, it is news to me. Are there any active threads discussing it?
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      11-18-2020, 05:18 PM   #58
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Sorry to hear. I think you will be very happy with the experience the GT4 will provide however. Please elaborate on this stuttering issue you are talking about, it is news to me. Are there any active threads discussing it?
What I have seen is alot of the xdi users are seeing this issue compared to other upgraded HPFP users.

It also sounds like it's occuring under high gear, low rpm, and high load which is a phenomenon called lugging - which is extremely bad for your engine, hence why you should down shift before accelerating under these high gear low rpm scenarios.
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      11-18-2020, 05:22 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost135i View Post
Sorry to hear. I think you will be very happy with the experience the GT4 will provide however. Please elaborate on this stuttering issue you are talking about, it is news to me. Are there any active threads discussing it?
What I have seen is alot of the xdi users are seeing this issue compared to other upgraded HPFP users.

It also sounds like it's occuring under high gear, low rpm, and high load which is a phenomenon called lugging - which is extremely bad for your engine, hence why you should down shift before accelerating under these high gear low rpm scenarios.
Yeah lugging any engine is terrible for it.

And okay, if this is an issue with XDI users then that's probably why I have not heard of it. I have the older n54 style fuel pump that the early model n55s received.
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      11-18-2020, 05:26 PM   #60
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Yeah lugging any engine is terrible for it.

And okay, if this is an issue with XDI users then that's probably why I have not heard of it. I have the older n54 style fuel pump that the early model n55s received.
It's only speculation that it is xdi only, but from the threads I read up on all the complaints come from XDI owners.
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      11-20-2020, 03:32 AM   #61
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      11-20-2020, 09:47 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
It's only speculation that it is xdi only, but from the threads I read up on all the complaints come from XDI owners.
It's an issue which began immediately after I had the PS2 and XDi HPFP installed. It usually occurs around 2,000-2,500 rpm in 6th or 7th gear between 60-80mph when driving the car normally down the road. Having DCT may make it more evident since I'm not manually shifting gears when I'm just cruising. When it happens, the car pulls a ton of timing for a split second.

My PS2 was installed by Frank at TTFS, who is also the exclusive distributor for the XDi HPHP and wrote the fuel maps. I had Frank check and replace the spring in the DV+, check the turbo installation for leaks, replace the plugs twice with both OEM Bosch and NGK 95706, tried different gaps, replaced the O2 sensor, tried both MHD and BM3, tried different tuners... nothing fixed it. That's why I went the path of this big turbo upgrade thinking replacing everything would fix it by process of elimination. Throwing good money after bad... a foolish mistake and never a good idea.

I uploaded a few of my datalogs taken in August but posted to Datazap on 11/20/2020 in case anyone would like to look through them:
https://datazap.me/u/nothingman/

I've talked to at least 10 other people with the same configuration with the same exact problem. Some of those people have the Dorch HPFP, so it's not strictly XDi. I haven't talked to anyone running Spool. This past weekend, I was messaging back and forth with boldy1, who is also having the same problem and we went back and forth with our findings. He even replaced his ignition coils. I was about to order a Precision Raceworks ignition kit to see if that resolved it, and then came across yet another person with the problem that had already tried that. That's when I decided to abandon the project.

The only people I know (count:2) who are running either a Pure Stage 2 turbo or Stage 3 Speedtech kit and aren't having the problem are using different HPFP solutions. One is using an S55 HPFP retrofit, the other port injection.

I've always wanted to own a blistering fast turbo charged car, but I think chose the wrong platform to pursue it with.
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      11-20-2020, 10:56 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
It's an issue which began immediately after I had the PS2 and XDi HPFP installed. It usually occurs around 2,000-2,500 rpm in 6th or 7th gear between 60-80mph when driving the car normally down the road. Having DCT may make it more evident since I'm not manually shifting gears when I'm just cruising. When it happens, the car pulls a ton of timing for a split second.

My PS2 was installed by Frank at TTFS, who is also the exclusive distributor for the XDi HPHP and wrote the fuel maps. I had Frank check and replace the spring in the DV+, check the turbo installation for leaks, replace the plugs twice with both OEM Bosch and NGK 95706, tried different gaps, replaced the O2 sensor, tried both MHD and BM3, tried different tuners... nothing fixed it. That's why I went the path of this big turbo upgrade thinking replacing everything would fix it by process of elimination. Throwing good money after bad... a foolish mistake and never a good idea.

I uploaded a few of my datalogs taken in August but posted to Datazap on 11/20/2020 in case anyone would like to look through them:
https://datazap.me/u/nothingman/

I've talked to at least 10 other people with the same configuration with the same exact problem. Some of those people have the Dorch HPFP, so it's not strictly XDi. I haven't talked to anyone running Spool. This past weekend, I was messaging back and forth with boldy1, who is also having the same problem and we went back and forth with our findings. He even replaced his ignition coils. I was about to order a Precision Raceworks ignition kit to see if that resolved it, and then came across yet another person with the problem that had already tried that. That's when I decided to abandon the project.

The only people I know (count:2) who are running either a Pure Stage 2 turbo or Stage 3 Speedtech kit and aren't having the problem are using different HPFP solutions. One is using an S55 HPFP retrofit, the other port injection.

I've always wanted to own a blistering fast turbo charged car, but I think chose the wrong platform to pursue it with.

No issues here with the Dorch Stage 2 on the Speedtech Kit. Although I am on EcuTek and part of the tuning process involved dialing in HPFP control after receiving the base tables from Chris at Dorch.
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      11-20-2020, 02:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
It's an issue which began immediately after I had the PS2 and XDi HPFP installed. It usually occurs around 2,000-2,500 rpm in 6th or 7th gear between 60-80mph when driving the car normally down the road. Having DCT may make it more evident since I'm not manually shifting gears when I'm just cruising. When it happens, the car pulls a ton of timing for a split second.

My PS2 was installed by Frank at TTFS, who is also the exclusive distributor for the XDi HPHP and wrote the fuel maps. I had Frank check and replace the spring in the DV+, check the turbo installation for leaks, replace the plugs twice with both OEM Bosch and NGK 95706, tried different gaps, replaced the O2 sensor, tried both MHD and BM3, tried different tuners... nothing fixed it. That's why I went the path of this big turbo upgrade thinking replacing everything would fix it by process of elimination. Throwing good money after bad... a foolish mistake and never a good idea.

I uploaded a few of my datalogs taken in August but posted to Datazap on 11/20/2020 in case anyone would like to look through them:
https://datazap.me/u/nothingman/

I've talked to at least 10 other people with the same configuration with the same exact problem. Some of those people have the Dorch HPFP, so it's not strictly XDi. I haven't talked to anyone running Spool. This past weekend, I was messaging back and forth with boldy1, who is also having the same problem and we went back and forth with our findings. He even replaced his ignition coils. I was about to order a Precision Raceworks ignition kit to see if that resolved it, and then came across yet another person with the problem that had already tried that. That's when I decided to abandon the project.

The only people I know (count:2) who are running either a Pure Stage 2 turbo or Stage 3 Speedtech kit and aren't having the problem are using different HPFP solutions. One is using an S55 HPFP retrofit, the other port injection.

I've always wanted to own a blistering fast turbo charged car, but I think chose the wrong platform to pursue it with.
Very strange... I wonder if the base fuel maps are not really one size fits all and hence cause a crap ton of issues... It's probably why edios didn't see any issues when he went fully custom tuned by ecutek, also could be why spool hasn't released maps for it yet.


Makes me consider if I should be going with ecutek.
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      11-20-2020, 04:06 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Very strange... I wonder if the base fuel maps are not really one size fits all and hence cause a crap ton of issues... It's probably why edios didn't see any issues when he went fully custom tuned by ecutek, also could be why spool hasn't released maps for it yet.


Makes me consider if I should be going with ecutek.
cookiesowns at Bend Calibration tuned my car. He can chime in on more specific details, but we have flex fuel running and everything on my 2018 M2 with very little issues. Makes running E-mixes in California VERY easy.
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      11-20-2020, 04:09 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Eidos View Post
cookiesowns at Bend Calibration tuned my car. He can chime in on more specific details, but we have flex fuel running and everything on my 2018 M2 with very little issues. Makes running E-mixes in California VERY easy.
Thanks for the shout out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
TL;DR Power stutter combined with fuel and ignition issues has led to the decision to scrap the project based upon reliability concerns.

This is not the update I had planned to make, but it is with very mixed emotions I am letting the community know I am pulling the plug and abandoning this project. To understand why, you need to understand how I got to this point in the first place.

Since the installation of the Pure Stage 2 turbo and XDi-35 HPFP, I have experienced a random power stutter which seems to be a very widespread problem across similar configurations. Seeking a solution, I have replaced the spark plugs 3x with both OEM Bosch and NGK95706 and tried a range of different gaps. I replaced the O2 sensor. I tried two different tuning platforms, MHD and BM3, as well as tunes from different well known tuners and different OTS maps. I finally figured replacing the turbo, HPFP and all of the associated parts would be the likely solution - which is how this big turbo project was born.
Charlie, I wish I had the pleasure of seeing this thread and a chance to talk to you about your car to see how we can help you before the decision was made.

The points that you mentioned all sound strictly like a tuning issue and can be refined, may just take some time.

We've done quite a few M2's already on both XDI and Dorch pump running flex fuel with ECUTek and none has described the issues you mentioned. Granted our data set may be smaller than others, as only one of them being a DCT car ( rest 6MT ), I'm quite confident we can definitely sort you out on the tuning side.

I'd be more than happy to extend an offer of reviewing your logs, and seeing if we can get you to try out ECUTek to see if it resolves or improves your issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Very strange... I wonder if the base fuel maps are not really one size fits all and hence cause a crap ton of issues... It's probably why edios didn't see any issues when he went fully custom tuned by ecutek, also could be why spool hasn't released maps for it yet.


Makes me consider if I should be going with ecutek.
When you get into modifying the fuel system, or really any other component of such sensitive motors, you really need to dial in the tolerances on everything else, that's more than just fuel maps. Things like torque management, tip in control, HPFP/LPFP control so on so forth, nonetheless what's even more important is having *SOLID* data logging, meaning 15+ datapoint per second if not more, and logging custom ram addresses to get more visibility.

I won't get into the what's better or not debate here, but it's important to pick a tuner that really spends the time to understand the car, the driver, goals, and also the tuning platform and what's available to them.
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