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      08-17-2020, 09:39 AM   #1
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Oil Burn

Hey guys.

I haven’t seen this info thrown around on the forum, so I wanted to start a thread specifically for the track guys about how much oil we’re burning so we can understand what’s normal/not normal for our high use track driving scenarios.

Reply back with your details in this format:

MY: 2017
Miles: 37k
Oil: 5W-40 300V
Fuel: Half 93/E85
Tune: Stage 2+
Burn: 1-qt every 10 track days

PS. A “track day” for this purpose is a normal HPDE day with ~1.5hr of seat time, so convert your open track days into the appropriate amount of HPDE days for this purpose.
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      08-17-2020, 10:46 AM   #2
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MY: 2018
Miles: 25k
Oil: alternate between whatever dealer is using and Castrol Edge 0w-40
Fuel: 92 octane
Tune: stock
Burn: none shown on digital dipstick and seems to fill the nearly 7qts to package for recycling when I change at home.

I do ~20 track days per year and change the oil at home when the oil life monitor hits roughly 50% of the starting miles remaining. I’ve seen minimal consumption, if any.

Sounds like maybe something is starting to wear in your case.

Last edited by bentom2; 08-17-2020 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: Fixed model year. Had originally stated 2017.
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      08-17-2020, 11:16 AM   #3
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I didn’t have any significant burn until I started running Emixes and higher boost, so could just be ethanol diluting the oil and higher cylinder pressures.

Previous oil analysis showed OK, but I need to do it again on my next change. But, this is why wanted to get some data points from you guys before I try a different oil and whatnot.

Thanks!
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      08-18-2020, 03:19 PM   #4
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I don't have much to report, but I have one of the more extreme "don't change oil" philosophies than most. So just another data point.

MY: 2017
Miles: 20k
Oil: 0W-40 BMW LL
Fuel: Pump RON 95 for daily, 98 or 100 for track days (European gas)
Tune: Stock
Burn: Nothing measurable

Last oil change: March 2019
Miles since: ~10,000
Track days on Current Oil: 6 (One more coming up in September)
Next oil change according to iDrive: March '21 or another 6K miles. Not a day before.

Do you guys think I'm pushing factory oil too much? Not asking to argue, my mind is made up. Just curious what others think.

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      08-18-2020, 04:03 PM   #5
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Like bentom2 I would change my oil once in between the normal maintenance interval.

I never had much burn when I was running stock or even with Dinan Stage 4 and doing 25 track days per year. It started after going to custom tuning with ethanol, but I’m still curious to get data from you guys.

Thanks.
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      08-18-2020, 05:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I don't have much to report, but I have one of the more extreme "don't change oil" philosophies than most. So just another data point.

MY: 2017
Miles: 20k
Oil: 0W-40 BMW LL
Fuel: Pump RON 95 for daily, 98 or 100 for track days (European gas)
Tune: Stock
Burn: Nothing measurable

Last oil change: March 2019
Miles since: ~10,000
Track days on Current Oil: 6 (One more coming up in September)
Next oil change according to iDrive: March '21 or another 6K miles. Not a day before.

Do you guys think I'm pushing factory oil too much? Not asking to argue, my mind is made up. Just curious what others think.

Several shops have done tests including HP Autosport I (believe) showing how horrible the factory oil is on the M2 (in regards to tracking). And they recommended changing after 1-2 track days max. It was bad.
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      08-19-2020, 08:00 AM   #7
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Actually I must correct my previous statement. I just checked and I was down 3/4 of a qt. Adder 3/4 of a bottle and it's back to full according to the digital measurement.
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      08-19-2020, 10:06 AM   #8
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I should add that I don’t get any smoke and my plugs always looks good.

I’ll check that my oil analysis is still good and try Redline 5W-40 to see if it burns less, or if this is just bc of a high boost/Emix tune. The engine is pushing around 500hp (420-430whp, will dyno confirm in a couple weeks), and I drive it harder than most folks, so maybe this is my new typical.

Would like to hear input from other folks too. Thanks.
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      08-19-2020, 02:32 PM   #9
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So, I was doing a bit of research and I'd like to start a different conversation around suggested oils for track use and daily driving in between track events.

I figure we can have a more productive oil conversation over here in the Track section with our extreme use cases, vs the all over the place oil conversation in the Maintenance section of the forum. For instance, LL-01 isn't needed for those of us changing our oil more regularly than BMW's recommendation.

Goal 1 for a track oil is high HTHS, preferably above 4.0. This throws out a lot of 0W/5W-40 oils, except for Redline & Motul, and this narrowed my list to the oils below. If you find some others, let us know.

https://www.redlineoil.com/0w40-motor-oil
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w40-motor-oil
https://www.redlineoil.com/10w40-motor-oil
https://www.redlineoil.com/euro-series-5w40-motor-oil
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492016006
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492016005

Goal 2 for me is low viscosity at lower temps for the tight tolerances in our engines.

What's interesting in looking at the oils above is the standard Redline 5W-40 is extremely thick at 40C compared to the typical 0W oils we use and even the 300V 5W/10W-40 oils. Heck, the Redline 5W-40 is very similar in specs to their 10W-40!

This seems too thick for my liking, and rules out standard Redline 5W-40 & 10W-40, IMO. Between the Redline 0W-40 and Redline Euro 5W-40, the Euro 5W-40 is the obvious winner b/c of higher HTHS, close to Redline 0W-40 40C viscosity, and lower NOACK.

So, how does the Redline Euro 5W-40 compare to 5W-40 & 10W-40 300V? The 5W-40 300V has the highest HTHS and lowest 40C viscosity of the three oils. In fact, it's 40C viscosity is similar to many of the 0W oils we all consider. So, on the spec sheet it really does seem like the perfect track day/daily driving in between oil for us and should be fine to use year round. Altho, there are some other considerations....

First, 300V's suggested mileage life is 3-5K miles--very short, which makes it an expensive oil for continuous use. And, some folks are concerned that the full ester oils attract too much moisture and don't have enough detergents for cars that see daily driving between events, not to mention 300V's NOACK is a bit higher than the Redline Euro 5W-40.

Lastly, when I first started tuning with ethanol, I was burning thru OEM 0W oil as quick as I was with 5W-40 300V (which is practically a 0W-40 oil based on the viscosity numbers). I ran 10W-40 300V last summer (which is actually thinner than Redline's 5W-40 at 40C) and never had to add oil. So, I think my oil burn issue was/is the ethanol simply diluting the 0W OEM and similarly thin 300V 5W-40 oils a bit too much causing the additional burn.

The Redline Euro 5W-40 is a tiny bit thicker than the 300V 10W-40, but has a higher HTHS, lower NOACK, more detergents, and longer life. All that sounds good, but it is LL-04 rated, so I need to do a bit more research.

Lesson learned: Weights don't mean anything. Do your own oil spec sheet homework to find what best fits your use scenario!

Last edited by ZM2; 08-19-2020 at 03:08 PM..
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      08-19-2020, 02:51 PM   #10
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Follow up on LL-04, good info here on Bimmerworld's site: https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

Sounds good enough for my use case, but will still need to limit oil changes to shorter intervals.

It's also funny that Bimmerworld states that 1-liter of oil consumption per 1500-miles is "normal". Hah!

Last edited by ZM2; 08-19-2020 at 03:08 PM..
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      08-19-2020, 09:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Follow up on LL-04, good info here on Bimmerworld's site: https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

Sounds good enough for my use case, but will still need to limit oil changes to shorter intervals.

It's also funny that Bimmerworld states that 1-liter of oil consumption per 1500-miles is "normal". Hah!
Good thread here, I'll add my two cents:

I've switched to the Motul 5/30 X-Clean after my first oil change at the dealer. I change my oil no more than every 3-4 track weekends, and never have to add oil. I'll typically do 7-8 track weekends a year, so I end up with two oil changes of my own and typically one from the dealer.
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      08-31-2020, 04:10 AM   #12
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If I have an all stock N55, does it make sense to change my oil to 0W-40 if I only do a most 3-5 track days a year? I do change my oil every 5k but I've been using the OEM 0W-30 - haven't noticed any oil burn.
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      08-31-2020, 04:46 AM   #13
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Not an N55 owner so wont comment on oil consumption but,

LL-04 spec is for particulate filter cars, something about the oil additives not damaging the OPF/DPF. Hence why its prob not available in the USA from BMW.

The oil level sensor in the car seems to be very sensitive to the levelness of the car. I have gotten differing readings within 50-100km of each other. Makes me worried about adding oil and I think I may have overfiled it before (only 200ml or so).

BMW themselves say that M engines can consume up to 1.5L of oil per 1000km!

"Because of their increased power output and torque, M engines have a maximum permissible oil consumption of 1.5 l/1000 km."

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...fluids/2v3QS5F
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      08-31-2020, 08:07 AM   #14
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20,000 mile and 50 plus days on my 2017 M2. Doesn't seem to consume any oil.

Edit: Running stock in terms of engine/power
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      08-31-2020, 08:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
If I have an all stock N55, does it make sense to change my oil to 0W-40 if I only do a most 3-5 track days a year? I do change my oil every 5k but I've been using the OEM 0W-30 - haven't noticed any oil burn.
You should be fine since you’re stock and not tracking much. Once you start tuning and hitting the track more on hot summer days is when the engine begins to work hard for cooling and high temp oil performance becomes a concern.
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      08-31-2020, 08:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Not an N55 owner so wont comment on oil consumption but,

LL-04 spec is for particulate filter cars, something about the oil additives not damaging the OPF/DPF. Hence why its prob not available in the USA from BMW.

The oil level sensor in the car seems to be very sensitive to the levelness of the car. I have gotten differing readings within 50-100km of each other. Makes me worried about adding oil and I think I may have overfiled it before (only 200ml or so).

BMW themselves say that M engines can consume up to 1.5L of oil per 1000km!

"Because of their increased power output and torque, M engines have a maximum permissible oil consumption of 1.5 l/1000 km."

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...fluids/2v3QS5F
Funny that BMW, Bimmerworld, and other groups give similar metrics for acceptable oil burn. I don't know anyone burning that much oil! Maybe it helps with Ferrari style oil burn cheating.

I'm going to give the Red Line Euro 5W-40 a shot. I know it's LL-04, but it has better specs than 300V and the other Red Line oils, and if it creates less "soot" all the better.

I haven't read anything anywhere accept hearsay that the differences in metals/additives would have any impact on a non-OPF/DPF car. It's what Bimmerworld uses in their race cars and I'll be changing the oil every 5K or so anyways, so should be fine.
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      08-31-2020, 09:04 AM   #17
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Garage List
2019 BMW M2C  [0.00]
MY: 2019 (S55)
Miles: 9k km
Oil: 5w-30 Liqui-Moly Top Tec 4600 (just swapped from stock LL04 oil)
Fuel: 93
Tune: Stock
Burn: circa 1-Liter up to 9k km (mid interval) oil change. 3x Track Days (~6 HPDEs as stated in initial post)
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      08-31-2020, 09:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Funny that BMW, Bimmerworld, and other groups give similar metrics for acceptable oil burn. I don't know anyone burning that much oil! Maybe it helps with Ferrari style oil burn cheating.

I'm going to give the Red Line Euro 5W-40 a shot. I know it's LL-04, but it has better specs than 300V and the other Red Line oils, and if it creates less "soot" all the better.

I haven't read anything anywhere accept hearsay that the differences in metals/additives would have any impact on a non-OPF/DPF car. It's what Bimmerworld uses in their race cars and I'll be changing the oil every 5K or so anyways, so should be fine.
Its BMW that requires LL-04 for OPF cars, im sure it wont hurt non-OPF cars. As to why its important I never found out. I imagine it had to do with the life/function of the OPF and preserving it. So prob more refined for less soot as you say.

The TIS page I linked had some interesting info on "oil consumption" and things I'd never thought about. Like you might get huge oil consumption after a lot of short trips followed by a long trip as the long trip lets fuel collected in the short trips evaporate out of the oil.

It is well worth a read.

I have heard of S55 needing 1L every 5k km or so but no direct exp. (and 6 of my friends have S55 cars )

I think any big brand oil will do esepcially if you swap it out frequently. I would love to go to 0W40 but no LL-04 0W40 around.

EDIT: So the redline looks good but its almost 3 times more expensive than the OEM stuff so Id rather do 3 times as many oil changes.

The S55 keeps things very cool in OEM trim so im not too worried about going up a grade.
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      08-31-2020, 01:18 PM   #19
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I’ll add that the oil temp impact of running 300V was noticeable vs OEM oil (15-20F cooler and took longer to heat up).

If the Red Line Euro 5W-40 doesn’t have a similar impact, I’ll probably switch back to 10w-40 300V, which is actually a tiny bit thinner at low/high temps than the RL Euro 5W-40 which is significantly thinner than regular RL 5w-40.
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      08-31-2020, 10:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Not an N55 owner so wont comment on oil consumption but,

LL-04 spec is for particulate filter cars, something about the oil additives not damaging the OPF/DPF. Hence why its prob not available in the USA from BMW.

The oil level sensor in the car seems to be very sensitive to the levelness of the car. I have gotten differing readings within 50-100km of each other. Makes me worried about adding oil and I think I may have overfiled it before (only 200ml or so).

BMW themselves say that M engines can consume up to 1.5L of oil per 1000km!

"Because of their increased power output and torque, M engines have a maximum permissible oil consumption of 1.5 l/1000 km."

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...fluids/2v3QS5F
That was good to read, thanks for posting.
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      10-07-2020, 08:19 PM   #21
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Hey guys.

Quick update that my Blackstone analysis didn't show any abnormal wear. In fact the oil looked great. So, I'm pretty sure the Motul 5W-40, which is actually more like a 0W-40, is just too thin when running a high ethanol mix & boost tune.

Altho, they did say that my silicon levels were a little high and pointed to not good enough air filtration. I had put in the aFe dry drop in filter when I changed the oil last, so back to the stock air filter!

I put Redline Euro 5W-40 in this time, so we'll see how the burn goes since it's thicker like a typical 5W-40. Its viscosities are similar to the Motul 10W-40 I used previously (which is a thin 10W-40) and didn't have any burn. Time will tell.

Last edited by ZM2; 10-07-2020 at 08:48 PM..
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      11-22-2020, 08:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hey guys.

Quick update that my Blackstone analysis didn't show any abnormal wear. In fact the oil looked great. So, I'm pretty sure the Motul 5W-40, which is actually more like a 0W-40, is just too thin when running a high ethanol mix & boost tune.

Altho, they did say that my silicon levels were a little high and pointed to not good enough air filtration. I had put in the aFe dry drop in filter when I changed the oil last, so back to the stock air filter!

I put Redline Euro 5W-40 in this time, so we'll see how the burn goes since it's thicker like a typical 5W-40. Its viscosities are similar to the Motul 10W-40 I used previously (which is a thin 10W-40) and didn't have any burn. Time will tell.
interested in this.. I need to decide what oil I'm going to run on my next oil change.
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