[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

I think we agree.

Maybe I am wrong but doesn't the supra have the same ZF trans as the m240, g8x, ect? I guess now you can get it with a manual which I think makes it better (except everyone will complain about the crappy bmw manual). I will admit I think my disdain for the supra is the way it looks, just don't love it (then again don't love the m240 either).

Same ZF trans - perfectly adequate but still not much character. But that’s also one pitfall of the Supra, quite numb / insulated. As a track car it is rapid though - $50k for a brand new platform that with a few simple mods for less than $10k more and good driver skill can beat out that other brand of German cars on track days all day long. I agree with you that it’s not the prettiest thing, but it’s not off putting to me either… there are much worse looking BMWs out there rn.

I think the 6spd will give the Supra and B58 some excitement for street drivers (already know a stupid fast guy who’s grabbing one for the track… manuals are far from dead there!)

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

1. Not what you said

2. Idk why we are even talking about this, it has nothing to do with the point I was making as functionally it makes no difference

Yes, that's what i said, the oil pan is exactly the same in the gts as in the rest of the s55.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

1. Not what you said

2. Idk why we are even talking about this, it has nothing to do with the point I was making as functionally it makes no difference

He means dimensionally the same. Anyway no big deal.

[tadmcmichael]

So what about sound? Drove an M2 and then a M2 C. Loved every thing better about the M2 C except for the sound. Does the S58 sound appreciably better with the equal length exhaust? I guess anything with the twin turbos is at a disadvantage when it comes to noise. Planning on a G87.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by RC84

Bottom line, they both appear to be great engines, but is the b58 better? Both use a closed deck bottom with forged internals. The b58 also has "improved" cooling, so I'm wondering how that compares to to the "improved" cooling on the s55.

Just to make it clear, because information available on the web is wrong in most cases - some of the internals are forged, but many aren't. Pistons aren't forged on the B58 or S55, for example, only on the S58.

[MmmmmM2]

Having had an 8ZF in a 340i and a DCT in my M2C, I can tell you, the 8ZF does not even come close to the DCT.

[RC84]

For the record...I pulled the trigger on a 21 f87 manual today.

We will see how the g87 matures over the next couple years.

[pabrognara]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

Having had an 8ZF in a 340i and a DCT in my M2C, I can tell you, the 8ZF does not even come close to the DCT.

I second you. Had the m340xi for moths and It cant get closer to dct+s55 in m2c. I cant understand how the m340i wasnt so responsive having the b58. The s55/dct was much more quicker and responsive. Maybe related to car size? But in my opinion I feel no lack in lowend torque commuting my m2c!

One note, having used downpipe in my m2c increased a lot the performance!!

[bioman]

I think I’ve owned every variation of the S55 (M3, M4 GTS, M2c and M2cs). The S58, to me, is the better engine in every single way. More responsive, better low end torque, flatter power band and top end power. Also smoother day to day.

I have had a tuned S55 too and though it makes a significant difference in power from stock, the curve is still largely the same, just higher peaks with little change to low end.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by bioman

I think I’ve owned every variation of the S55 (M3, M4 GTS, M2c and M2cs). The S58, to me, is the better engine in every single way. More responsive, better low end torque, flatter power band and top end power. Also smoother day to day.

I have had a tuned S55 too and though it makes a significant difference in power from stock, the curve is still largely the same, just higher peaks with little change to low end.

I am curious how the detuned s58 on new M2 sill feel compared to the M3/4

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by bioman

I think I’ve owned every variation of the S55 (M3, M4 GTS, M2c and M2cs). The S58, to me, is the better engine in every single way. More responsive, better low end torque, flatter power band and top end power. Also smoother day to day.

I have had a tuned S55 too and though it makes a significant difference in power from stock, the curve is still largely the same, just higher peaks with little change to low end.

Your opinion seems to have a lot of merit having had all the S55 cars you have had. The S58 must be a special engine. From what I have read a mild piggyback tune makes them very powerful, without the worry of the crank hub failure.

I actually like the G87 M2, I bet it will be a terrific car. Wheels with better offsets and massive tires will make this car look even better.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by bioman

I have had a tuned S55 too and though it makes a significant difference in power from stock, the curve is still largely the same, just higher peaks with little change to low end.

I don't know what tune you tried, but on the m2c almost any tune turns the s55 into a monster, especially in low end...

The s58 has bigger turbos so i gather have less torque at low revs than the s55.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

The s58 has bigger turbos so i gather have less torque at low revs than the s55.

Which would explain why the F87N manual is much faster 80-120 km/h in 4th and 5th gear than the G87 manual (it's information available on the tech spec sheets)

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

Which would explain why the F87N manual is much faster 80-120 km/h in 4th and 5th gear than the G87 manual (it's information available on the tech spec sheets)

I haven't seen the comparison, but it is logical, still no one has managed with larger turbos to have more torque at low rpms.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by M3R1

Your opinion seems to have a lot of merit having had all the S55 cars you have had. The S58 must be a special engine. From what I have read a mild piggyback tune makes them very powerful, without the worry of the crank hub failure.

I actually like the G87 M2, I bet it will be a terrific car. Wheels with better offsets and massive tires will make this car look even better.

BMW 100% leaked those garbage pictures because compared to those, this red car pictures are not that bad. With some choice mods it could look pretty nice.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

BMW 100% leaked those garbage pictures because compared to those, this red car pictures are not that bad. With some choice mods it could look pretty nice.

I think the black and grey cars will look good modded. The red and white im not a huge fan of. The blue is simply awful. I wish I was in the room with the people that decide on these colors. Even the F87 and the 1M had less than stellar color offerings.

[stefan]

I have PTSD from working on timing chains and don't think the CCB is worth fussing about. I like my torque to be built linearly and lower down if possible. For those reasons I prefer the S55 but can see why the S58 is appealing.

The B58 is interesting. It has S motor levels of performance and tuning potential without the M tax and headaches. Could be a sweet spot.

[///MFrankie]

Originally Posted by bioman

I think I’ve owned every variation of the S55 (M3, M4 GTS, M2c and M2cs). The S58, to me, is the better engine in every single way. More responsive, better low end torque, flatter power band and top end power. Also smoother day to day.

I have had a tuned S55 too and though it makes a significant difference in power from stock, the curve is still largely the same, just higher peaks with little change to low end.

You're the only person I have ever seen claim the S58 has more low-down torque than the S55, and also the only person I have ever known to say the S55 tuned is almost no different low-down.

I'm not calling you a liar but your analysis of the engines is odd.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by ///MFrankie

You're the only person I have ever seen claim the S58 has more low-down torque than the S55, and also the only person I have ever known to say the S55 tuned is almost no different low-down.

I'm not calling you a liar but your analysis of the engines is odd.

Trolling attempt i think

[stefan]

Originally Posted by ///MFrankie

You're the only person I have ever seen claim the S58 has more low-down torque than the S55, and also the only person I have ever known to say the S55 tuned is almost no different low-down.

I'm not calling you a liar but your analysis of the engines is odd.

Well.. he is completely wrong. The S55 makes torque lower down. There was a distinct attempt to retain S motor power delivery characteristics particularly in the later model years. The S58 trades that for outright grunt.