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      07-07-2021, 05:56 AM   #1
j23
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M2 vs Lotus Emira

I realize it's sort of apples and oranges, but both have roughly 400 hp (if you opt for the V6 Emira) at similar price points (if compared to M2CS). And allegedly the Emira base comes in at roughly $82k USD, which I think is a bargain.

- 3100 lbs curb weight
- manual transmission
- mid-engine
- hydraulic steering
- great looks (to me)

Anyone else excited about this car?
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      07-07-2021, 11:12 AM   #2
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You think 82K base price is a bargain for a car powered by a detuned 4 cylinder from an AMG hatchback or a supercharged Camry V6? The exterior looks great but the powerplant options are poor and lazy. There is no reason to buy this car (except maybe exclusivity) when you get can get a Cayman GTS 4L for around the same price and does everything better.
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      07-07-2021, 11:24 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
There is no reason to buy this car (except maybe exclusivity) when you get can get a Cayman GTS 4L for around the same price and does everything better.
You can't say that until the cars are fully tested side by side, and the true retail prices compared.

I know my Exige makes every Porsche I drive seem like a wounded rhino, specs be damned.

People don't drive numbers...
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      07-07-2021, 11:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
You can't say that until the cars are fully tested side by side, and the true retail prices compared.

I know my Exige makes every Porsche I drive seem like a wounded rhino, specs be damned.

People don't drive numbers...
Meh, I owned a MP62 supercharged Elise for 3+ years. Lotus owners love to overstate the driving dynamics. The steering is super heavy, the cars understeer bad from the factory and need a lot of aftermarket help with negative camber in the front to turn in.

My base 997.1 GT3 already destroys Elise/Exige in just about every category, not to mention 997.2 RS or 991-992 GT2/GT3 RS
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      07-07-2021, 11:48 AM   #5
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I thought the base price was estimated at around $70k?

Edit: sounds like $70k likely for the AMG 2 liter, with the v6 starting in the 80's.
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      07-07-2021, 12:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by alan7467 View Post
I thought the base price was estimated at around $70k?

Edit: sounds like $70k likely for the AMG 2 liter, with the v6 starting in the 80's.
If it's 70k I'll have a hard time not trading in my m2. It just looks amazing
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      07-07-2021, 01:45 PM   #7
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Meh, I owned a MP62 supercharged Elise for 3+ years. Lotus owners love to overstate the driving dynamics.
I guess the entire industry overstates the driving dynamics as well. Weird, that.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
The steering is super heavy...
Only in a parking lot, as no-power steering tends to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
...the cars understeer bad from the factory...
As all road cars do, it's the manufacturer's idea of how to make cars safe.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
...and need a lot of aftermarket help with negative camber in the front to turn in.
Not the case at all. You can have -2° by swapping 2 bolts...free. You also need to know how to drive to get the most out of a Lotus, and in that instance, I know a few guys that get the stock car to turn in quite well.

Sounds like to me you didn't learn much about your car in your 3 years of ownership.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
My base 997.1 GT3 already destroys Elise/Exige in just about every category, not to mention 997.2 RS or 991-992 GT2/GT3 RS
Look at the price difference.

Try a 311 and your posh Porsche's would be toast.
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      07-07-2021, 03:01 PM   #8
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I already made requests to my local Lotus dealership to discuss the car. In all likelihood, I expect to keep the M2 for 4 or so years and pick up the first refresh of the Emira.
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      07-08-2021, 05:34 AM   #9
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It looks super. I think it should be a big hit. Especially with the AMG power plus DCT combo. Cayman killer. Not sold on the Camry rig. However. I would personally choose an original Elise with the K series engine if going in this direction. The new one is huge and massively wide. My CS is already my big car and I already have my little car. But I've always had a huge soft spot for that original Elise.
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      07-08-2021, 09:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I guess the entire industry overstates the driving dynamics as well. Weird, that.



Only in a parking lot, as no-power steering tends to be.



As all road cars do, it's the manufacturer's idea of how to make cars safe.



Not the case at all. You can have -2° by swapping 2 bolts...free. You also need to know how to drive to get the most out of a Lotus, and in that instance, I know a few guys that get the stock car to turn in quite well.

Sounds like to me you didn't learn much about your car in your 3 years of ownership.



Look at the price difference.

Try a 311 and your posh Porsche's would be toast.
Such a fanboy with lame arguments...sad.

I don't know if you've ever setup your Exige yourself but there are no camber bolts on the front of the car. The only way to adjust front camber from the factory is to remove shims. Even if you remove all the shims you don't even get 1 full degree of negative camber. You either have to remove the arms and mill some material away or get some offset bushings to get enough negative camber. I can get -4 degrees of front negative camber using only factory adjustments in my GT3.

You said your Exige compares favorably to ANY Porsche so don't bring up the price difference and back pedal now. I was comparing street cars of a similar year (07 GT3, 07 Exige).

Comparing a Lotus 311 race car with no windshield to a full weight GT street car, what a dumb comparison. Let's compare a 911 RSR to a 311 or any modern Lotus race car and see how that pans out

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      07-08-2021, 10:09 AM   #11
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Such a fanboy with lame arguments...sad.
I think it's the other way around. Your justifications are quite weak, and don't hold up at all.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I don't know if you've ever setup your Exige yourself but there are no camber bolts on the front of the car. The only way to adjust front camber from the factory is to remove shims. Even if you remove all the shims you don't even get 1 full degree of negative camber. You either have to remove the arms and mill some material away or get some offset bushings to get enough negative camber. I can get -4 degrees of front negative camber using only factory adjustments in my GT3.
Again, you didn't know your car.

The shims are for minor adjustments.

Yes, you can get milled steering arms, but easier than that is to move the strut up onto the top strut mount instead of the bottom one, giving you an immediate -2°.

Perfection for the front of a Lotus is -2.2°, which is easily achievable with $0 if you know what you're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
You said your Exige compares favorably to ANY Porsche so don't bring up the price difference and back pedal now. I was comparing street cars of a similar year (07 GT3, 07 Exige).
The experience of driving the Lotus compares very favorably to the experience of driving a similarly priced Porsche. In fact, better in most eyes.

And if you want to compare numbers, no problem there either, just put the same money into the Lotus as you have in the GT3 and you'll be there and then some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Comparing a Lotus 311 race car with no windshield to a full weight GT street car, what a dumb comparison. Let's compare a 911 RSR to a 311 or any modern Lotus race car and see how that pans out
Just because your posh Porsche has a windshield doesn't make it any more of a normal car. Race car to race car you lose, setting up the car on any track other than high-speed power-plays.

Not sure it's as obvious to everyone as it is to me, but you have no clue what you're talking about. Because you don't understand something means it can't be right?

That'll be my last reply to you.
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      07-08-2021, 10:20 AM   #12
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I'm very interested in the Emira, when I first saw the car I fell in love immediately and knew that it is a car I'm going to own in the future.

We will see what the final cost is to order one a year or two in, hopefully let them iron out a few bugs. Chances are we will pay super high prices in Australia but that's already expected here.

I will be keeping my m2 comp as well.
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      07-08-2021, 10:44 AM   #13
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I think this Emira is many things. It's a money-saving platform, turning 3 cars into 1. It's beautiful, so sales will be high. It's sporty, but not a race car. It's posh, but not a true GT. I can see how much it's trying to compromise, and if I could only have 1 car I might be on that page.

But to me it's a beautiful all-season tire, and I hate all-season tires. I'd rather have a true, super grippy Summer tire, and a true, climb-a-mountain Winter tire. That's why I have an M2 and an Exige instead of a 718 GT4.

I think this Emira is great, it's just not for me, as it seeks to replace both cars I already have, it it just couldn't.
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      07-08-2021, 11:20 AM   #14
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I'd like to see how the 8 speed DCT on the Emira compares to the M2's 7 DCT. A 2.0L single, twin-scroll turbo AMG I4 making nearly the exact same HP as a 3.0L double single-scroll I6 is honestly mind-blowing. Boost pressure in that M139 AMG must be ignorant.

If the 0-60 times are similar and the trunks can live up to daily drive duties, I can totally see someone trading in an M2C for an extremely unique Emira. Unless you need those back seats. Shame we don't get the Mercedes A45/A45S in the states to do some track comparisons.
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      07-08-2021, 11:46 AM   #15
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I honestly wouldn't mind the A45 AMG power plant paired with a DCT, even though I'm a manual guy.

This thing has Ferrari looks at 1/4th the cost, which is what I'm stoked about.
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      07-08-2021, 01:00 PM   #16
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I do not rate the comparison of an M2 vs Emira at all. Two extremely different cars with a different purpose. The Emira is a sports car on a platform that was designed to do that and nothing else. 400lbs difference in curb weight is huge.

The Emira seems like it will be awesome. It could not replace my M2 or my 911 but still it seems quite a package.
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      07-08-2021, 01:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
You think 82K base price is a bargain for a car powered by a detuned 4 cylinder from an AMG hatchback or a supercharged Camry V6? The exterior looks great but the powerplant options are poor and lazy. There is no reason to buy this car (except maybe exclusivity) when you get can get a Cayman GTS 4L for around the same price and does everything better.
This - also, this car has zero practicality. No back seat means no deal for me.
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      07-08-2021, 01:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Meh, I owned a MP62 supercharged Elise for 3+ years. Lotus owners love to overstate the driving dynamics. The steering is super heavy, the cars understeer bad from the factory and need a lot of aftermarket help with negative camber in the front to turn in.

My base 997.1 GT3 already destroys Elise/Exige in just about every category, not to mention 997.2 RS or 991-992 GT2/GT3 RS
Unrelated - please post pictures
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      07-08-2021, 02:06 PM   #19
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I'm interested. I wouldn't mind a well rounded Lotus. Curious to see how this car drives and this has more more excited than any BMW as of late.
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      07-08-2021, 03:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Unrelated - please post pictures
Here are a few and one on track with some friends, nothing special just a run of the mill mostly stock white 997.1 GT3 with OEM euro club sport back half cage, Recaro SPGs, Forgeline GA3R wheels.
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      07-08-2021, 04:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Here are a few and one on track with some friends, nothing special just a run of the mill mostly stock white 997.1 GT3 with OEM euro club sport back half cage, Recaro SPGs, Forgeline GA3R wheels.
LOVE IT.

Semi serious question - is it daily livable? Not that you would, but could you?
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      07-08-2021, 04:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
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LOVE IT.

Semi serious question - is it daily livable? Not that you would, but could you?
Sure if you left it stock it'd be fine as a daily. Mine has a GMG center muffler delete, race seats, harness, back half cage, track brake setup and the alignment is tuned to be track oriented so not really daily livable anymore. Still has full interior, A/C, stereo etc though so can easily be street driven.

I'd recommend a 991 or 992 GT3 if you wanted a do it all fun daily driver and weekend toy in one. Those are a bit more refined, newer tech, and you can get a PDK if you want.
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