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      02-09-2016, 08:58 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
That should be obvious.
Wow, tremendous response!

OK, I'll repeat myself, what basis do you have assuming that? Or, again, as you attempted to refute...is it just wishful thinking?

Sad as it may seem, BMW doesn't care about how much headroom they give their customers for aftermarket gains.

So again, while we all hope it's an up-sized snail...we have nothing to support that it is. In fact, because they've publicly mentioned all the other improvements over the standard N55, and haven't mentioned a larger turbo...one could argue that fact as evidence that they are the same.

Certainly, it would go some way in protecting M4 sales. After all, an M2 with a stock turbo supporting 450 whp would certainly make a more compelling case vs. the M4.

P.S. I say all of this...while too think it's a bigger turbo...but not based on anything but a guess/hope/wishful thinking. Moreso that I don't think they can sell the M2 alone a VERY underrated B58 M240 unless the M2 is underrated itself.
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      02-09-2016, 09:52 PM   #68
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Take a look at historical precedent. 10% whp gain for each platform is the norm. A different turbo for each hp target is the norm. If an M235i turbo was used for this application, it'd be near the top of its operating range.
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      02-10-2016, 12:32 PM   #69
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Tried searching the forum for this as well as on the tech PDF, does M2 have passive or active suspension?

In the technical PDF, it says "reversal-load damping" is affected by the different driving experience modes. Does this mean active suspension?
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      02-10-2016, 01:12 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
Tried searching the forum for this as well as on the tech PDF, does M2 have passive or active suspension?
In the technical PDF, it says "reversal-load damping" is affected by the different driving experience modes. Does this mean active suspension?
M2 Project Manager Frank Isenberg in the CAR interview (December 2015):
The suspension is matched to bespoke springs and dampers but there's no adaptive suspension. "The problem with adaptive dampers is you're changing the damper, not the spring, so you end up with a spring that is a compromise between two settings", explains Isenberg.
Have a look at the thread about the M2 M Performance coilovers that will be made available this Spring: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1220019
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      02-10-2016, 01:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Take a look at historical precedent. 10% whp gain for each platform is the norm. A different turbo for each hp target is the norm. If an M235i turbo was used for this application, it'd be near the top of its operating range.
10% is the norm? Do tell!

Let's see...N54 and N55 (let's use the normal version) are both rated at 300 bhp.

The N54 has MUCH MORE headroom in the stock turbos. On a tune only, the N54 is good for 80+ whp. Much more on full bolt ons (stock snails are good for 500ish bhp). The N55 is good for about 60 whp, and maxes out quickly after that. Nowhere near one another in potential. And both of them are more than 10% whp gain. More like 20-50%, depending on N54 vs. N55.

Let's look at the S55...shall we?

Stock, dynos around what, 410-420 whp? And the stock turbos max out at about what, 525 whp?

10% huh?

Again, I've already said I don't think BMW would be maxing out the stock N55 snail, for the very reason that the B58 is so underrated. So we both think it will have a bigger turbo.

That doesn't mean you should continue to post made-up, factually incorrect information to allegedly support that position.
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      02-10-2016, 01:55 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
M2 Project Manager Frank Isenberg in the CAR interview (December 2015):
The suspension is matched to bespoke springs and dampers but there's no adaptive suspension. "The problem with adaptive dampers is you're changing the damper, not the spring, so you end up with a spring that is a compromise between two settings", explains Isenberg.
Have a look at the thread about the M2 M Performance coilovers that will be made available this Spring: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1220019
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
10% is the norm? Do tell!

Let's see...N54 and N55 (let's use the normal version) are both rated at 300 bhp.

The N54 has MUCH MORE headroom in the stock turbos (like at least 75 bhp more) vs. the N55. And both of them are more than 10% whp gain. More like 20-50%, depending on N54 vs. N55.

Let's look at the S55...shall we?

Stock, dynos around what, 410-420 whp? And the stock turbos max out at about what, 525 whp?

10% huh?

Stop talking out of your ass.

Again, I've already said I don't think BMW would be maxing out the stock N55 snail, for the very reason that the B58 is so underrated. So we both think it will have a bigger turbo.

That doesn't mean you should continue to post made-up, factually incorrect information to allegedly support that position.
STOP ARGUING BMW M2 BIMMERPOST DRIVE REVIEW COMING OUT TOMORROW
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      02-10-2016, 01:58 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
STOP ARGUING BMW M2 BIMMERPOST DRIVE REVIEW COMING OUT TOMORROW
Your caps lock is on.

And your post is irrelevant.
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      02-10-2016, 02:00 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
STOP ARGUING BMW M2 BIMMERPOST DRIVE REVIEW COMING OUT TOMORROW
Is that fact? Video or article?
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      02-10-2016, 02:15 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
M2 Project Manager Frank Isenberg in the CAR interview (December 2015):
The suspension is matched to bespoke springs and dampers but there's no adaptive suspension. "The problem with adaptive dampers is you're changing the damper, not the spring, so you end up with a spring that is a compromise between two settings", explains Isenberg.
Have a look at the thread about the M2 M Performance coilovers that will be made available this Spring: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1220019
Ah thanks for that, answers my question perfectly! The way it was phrased in the interview, it seems that passive damper is the way to go as long as you don't mind a slightly harsher ride 24/7.

However this gives rise to another question; what is this "reversal-load damping" change that's mentioned in the tech training pdf?
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      02-10-2016, 02:17 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBBDrew View Post
Is that fact? Video or article?
Nope they have an embargo until Tuesday

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      02-10-2016, 02:44 PM   #77
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"Again, I've already said I don't think BMW would be maxing out the stock N55 snail, for the very reason that the B58 is so underrated. So we both think it will have a bigger turbo."

Even if they use the stock turbo, tuners might offer a rebuilt one, like Dinan did on the N54. And in this case only one turbo would have to be rebuilt--cheap!!
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      02-10-2016, 02:48 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
10% is the norm? Do tell!

Let's see...N54 and N55 (let's use the normal version) are both rated at 300 bhp.

The N54 has MUCH MORE headroom in the stock turbos. On a tune only, the N54 is good for 80+ whp. Much more on full bolt ons (stock snails are good for 500ish bhp). The N55 is good for about 60 whp, and maxes out quickly after that. Nowhere near one another in potential. And both of them are more than 10% whp gain. More like 20-50%, depending on N54 vs. N55.

Let's look at the S55...shall we?

Stock, dynos around what, 410-420 whp? And the stock turbos max out at about what, 525 whp?

10% huh?

Again, I've already said I don't think BMW would be maxing out the stock N55 snail, for the very reason that the B58 is so underrated. So we both think it will have a bigger turbo.

That doesn't mean you should continue to post made-up, factually incorrect information to allegedly support that position.
As much as I want the turbo to be different from the standard N55 I think they would have mentioned it somewhere. Can anyone think of a reason that it hasn't been a highlight of the M2's awesomeness?
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      02-10-2016, 03:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Interesting how the gearbox clearly has drive logic modes, they even show the gearbox button in the doc, but no actual physical switch next to the gear lever..

Also like how the flaps are always open in sport but open in comfort above a certain rpm.

Design is all about making good decisions for a user - interesting to see them put all the functions down to the comfort/ sport / sport+ switch rather than individual buttons.

Kinda like it - sport will defiantly be my main mode
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
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      02-10-2016, 03:27 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers View Post
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
Do you know if it will save the last settings when the car was turned off or do we have to set it everytime we get in?
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      02-10-2016, 03:29 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Interesting how the gearbox clearly has drive logic modes, they even show the gearbox button in the doc, but no actual physical switch next to the gear lever..

Also like how the flaps are always open in sport but open in comfort above a certain rpm.

Design is all about making good decisions for a user - interesting to see them put all the functions down to the comfort/ sport / sport+ switch rather than individual buttons.

Kinda like it - sport will defiantly be my main mode
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
Haha - The choice between Manual / DCT was the hardest - my head was telling me DCT while my heart was saying Manual. For the time being I've settled on DCT as I really want a Duel Clutch in my life and the shifts should be really good.
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      02-10-2016, 03:30 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers View Post
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
Do you know if it will save the last settings when the car was turned off or do we have to set it everytime we get in?
All bimmers I've had resort back to Comfort mode at start up. Guessing this will be the same.
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      02-10-2016, 03:32 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Interesting how the gearbox clearly has drive logic modes, they even show the gearbox button in the doc, but no actual physical switch next to the gear lever..

Also like how the flaps are always open in sport but open in comfort above a certain rpm.

Design is all about making good decisions for a user - interesting to see them put all the functions down to the comfort/ sport / sport+ switch rather than individual buttons.

Kinda like it - sport will defiantly be my main mode
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
Haha - The choice between Manual / DCT was the hardest - my head was telling me DCT while my heart was saying Manual. For the time being I've settled on DCT as I really want a Duel Clutch in my life and the shifts should be really good.
Oh yeah the DCT is a peach for sure and if DD duties over say 15,000 MPA essential IMO.

You won't be disappointed, have driven a DCT before, takes a little adjustment, no creep and slightly awkward at low some and parking close used to be a minor fret. Once on the open road them, my god amazing, no power loss instant play station shifts!
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      02-10-2016, 03:41 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris10Bimmers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Jason
Interesting how the gearbox clearly has drive logic modes, they even show the gearbox button in the doc, but no actual physical switch next to the gear lever..

Also like how the flaps are always open in sport but open in comfort above a certain rpm.

Design is all about making good decisions for a user - interesting to see them put all the functions down to the comfort/ sport / sport+ switch rather than individual buttons.

Kinda like it - sport will defiantly be my main mode
Yes it's a nice approach. There are pros and cons to this vs the full adjustability of the F8X. I found I tinkered a lot rather than just enjoying it. I think it will work very well. Can't wait to use with the 6MT as without Adaptive and DCT holding the gear longer on its own it's just sound and throttle response = full time sport for me
Haha - The choice between Manual / DCT was the hardest - my head was telling me DCT while my heart was saying Manual. For the time being I've settled on DCT as I really want a Duel Clutch in my life and the shifts should be really good.
Oh yeah the DCT is a peach for sure and if DD duties over say 15,000 MPA essential IMO.

You won't be disappointed, have driven a DCT before, takes a little adjustment, no creep and slightly awkward at low some and parking close used to be a minor fret. Once on the open road them, my god amazing, no power loss instant play station shifts!
Nice! The M2 will be a DD for me - I've never driven a M-DCT although my dealer said he'd let me go in a M4 to make sure - I'll have to remind him about that!
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      02-10-2016, 04:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
10% is the norm? Do tell!

Let's see...N54 and N55 (let's use the normal version) are both rated at 300 bhp.

The N54 has MUCH MORE headroom in the stock turbos. On a tune only, the N54 is good for 80+ whp. Much more on full bolt ons (stock snails are good for 500ish bhp). The N55 is good for about 60 whp, and maxes out quickly after that. Nowhere near one another in potential. And both of them are more than 10% whp gain. More like 20-50%, depending on N54 vs. N55.

Let's look at the S55...shall we?

Stock, dynos around what, 410-420 whp? And the stock turbos max out at about what, 525 whp?

10% huh?

Again, I've already said I don't think BMW would be maxing out the stock N55 snail, for the very reason that the B58 is so underrated. So we both think it will have a bigger turbo.

That doesn't mean you should continue to post made-up, factually incorrect information to allegedly support that position.
As much as I want the turbo to be different from the standard N55 I think they would have mentioned it somewhere. Can anyone think of a reason that it hasn't been a highlight of the M2's awesomeness?
I actually think they would NOT mention it.

Subaru ? Sure
Mitsubishi? Heck yes.
Ford ? Probably so

But I don't see BMW AG putting out any info that they used xxx turbo or that the turbo has changed. They barely even provide max boost info.
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      02-10-2016, 04:40 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I actually think they would NOT mention it.

Subaru ? Sure
Mitsubishi? Heck yes.
Ford ? Probably so

But I don't see BMW AG putting out any info that they used xxx turbo or that the turbo has changed. They barely even provide max boost info.
Good point and I hope you're right!
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      02-10-2016, 05:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I actually think they would NOT mention it.

Subaru ? Sure
Mitsubishi? Heck yes.
Ford ? Probably so

But I don't see BMW AG putting out any info that they used xxx turbo or that the turbo has changed. They barely even provide max boost info.
You read all the press releases...so how could you honestly think that?

They specifically pointed out that this "N55" had a new closed deck block, a forged crank, upgraded pistons, etc. They literally drafted marketing material for the purpose of distinguishing the M2's engine from the regular N55. They made sure to put people's minds at ease that this wasn't a standard N55.

And...for some reason...you think they left out a larger turbo? Either accidentally or intentionally?

How does that make any sense?
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      02-10-2016, 06:00 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
You read all the press releases...so how could you honestly think that?

They specifically pointed out that this "N55" had a new closed deck block, a forged crank, upgraded pistons, etc. They literally drafted marketing material for the purpose of distinguishing the M2's engine from the regular N55. They made sure to put people's minds at ease that this wasn't a standard N55.

And...for some reason...you think they left out a larger turbo? Either accidentally or intentionally?

How does that make any sense?

It makes a lot of sense to me.. I think BMW isn't into releasing proprietary info.

I DO think there is a new turbo and here is why..

- there is reference to a redesigned manifold/turbo

sounds like a new location/turbo to me

- dyno curves

Did you see the difference in the N54B30TO and N55B30TO dyno curves?
The new motor makes a TON more power at 6500 rpm and is still making power where the N54 has already given up... It looks like it really fully pulls to 7000.... I don't think that's just tuning and beefed up internals..

- everyone doubts BMW M... and they always find a way to throw down a trump card.

As you mentioned.... there is a lot of work done to the M2 motor.... and I can't see keeping the same snail when so much else has changed from the regular N55 - this is BMW M..
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