01-21-2016, 01:40 AM | #67 |
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99% of the time the only *real* difference between the M2 and the M235i is going to be placebo effect. I've owned far too many M cars *and* same gen standard BMWs *in parallel* to be convinced otherwise. BMW fans always have "M goggles".
The Porsche, on the other hand, is an *entirely* different experience. And it's absolutely daily driveable. If I didnt need 4 seats I'd be all over a "last of the NA" 981S. The M2, on the other hand, isn't on my radar at all. On the track yes, it will be much better than the 235 as it should be. On the drive to work? Please. The Porsche is a dramatically different experience than those 2 cars in every way, 24x7, wherever you are. As an analog I strongly suggest testing a fully "MSported out" 435i and an M4 back to back. I did recently. If I'm being honest? For daily driving? Same shit. Now if you're an "M badge" *mega fan* (I'm not... Ive bought/owned/driven everything) then of course you'll get an insta boner just *starting* the M4. Last edited by mlambert890; 01-21-2016 at 01:48 AM.. |
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01-21-2016, 01:52 AM | #68 |
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Maybe that holds true for the current gen M4, but it hasn't for other M cars I have driven. I used to get 328i loaners and couldn't wait to bring them back as soon as I left the parking lot because of the inferior steering feel, throttle mapping, brakes / brake feel, and just overall road feel. Let's not even start on the suspension.
I do agree with you that the Porsche is going to be more of an occasion. |
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01-21-2016, 06:50 AM | #69 | |
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What you say resonates for me. I think for CERTAIN kinds of drivers, the m experience is not that different than the non m. I had a Z4 coupe 3.0Si and I didn't find that around town as a road car, the m offered that much driving joy. if anything the si was more liveable as a street car. It was easier to drive smoothly. If you are a very hard driver and take your cars on the track then m cars might offer a much different experience, but as a pure road car for someone who just likes a little spirited driving, not sure they offer that much more. I drove a m235i and it could not compare to my 981S in overall driving experience. Great car but not at the same level. Not sure the M2 will bridge that gap. Last edited by baege; 01-21-2016 at 06:57 AM.. |
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01-21-2016, 09:08 AM | #70 | |
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However , MANY PEOPLE DO IT. Every 1M test review it seemed, mentioned the Cayman R. Now M2 and Cayman GTS are mentioned. The M2 will likely punch above its weight and compare well. I can see comparing used Cayman vs new M2 however it sure seems to me a Cayman and M3 are not in the same price range. Neither is base M2 vs M4 (15k is a huge chunk of payment) but it's interesting how flexible/unsure of themselves how many people appear to be when buying a vehicle. Of course, it's the lack of specific decisions by buyers will that allow sales people to quickly pivot from M2 to selling customers an M235, an M4, or even a 335 that is in stock. |
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01-21-2016, 10:12 AM | #71 | |
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Take a survey of the real world people walking in to a Porsche dealer shopping for a Cayman S, I bet you less than 10% will say they are considering a BMW M2. The ones that do would say the M2 is their bargain basement budget option 'in case' they need 2 small rear seats. Most Cayman S buyers want the prestige of the badge and the mid engine balance, they aren't going to settle for a parts bin entry model chassis BMW (in their eyes). Some people shopping for new M2's might consider stretching for a used Cayman S (hence this thread) but they likely aren't the comparing a new M2 to a new optioned Cayman S order car. The real world price difference is 20K or more new to new similarly optioned. Last edited by CosmosMpower; 01-21-2016 at 10:24 AM.. |
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01-21-2016, 10:16 AM | #72 | |
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Last edited by CosmosMpower; 01-21-2016 at 10:24 AM.. |
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01-21-2016, 10:53 AM | #73 | |
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The issue is that I was unable to get the right color with the right options, I was going for the Red one then realized that it's missing the CDR audio and some carbon interior bits but it has the PCM option. I'm thinking of going GT4 now, they have a well spec'ed one on the way. I was also offered a 2015 Carerra S for the price of the GT4, they want to get rid of their C2S Inventory. www.porsche-code.com/PF3FDS22 No sport exhaust 😡 |
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01-21-2016, 11:01 AM | #74 |
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01-21-2016, 11:52 AM | #75 | |
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The system for the 981, including the console switch, was just reduced from $2095 to $1795...and no sales tax.
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01-21-2016, 11:56 AM | #76 | |
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I get why people are making the comparison with a new M2 vs a used Porsche, but buying a used car is full of the unknown, you never know what's been done to a car in the past and finding the color and options you want can make the search a full time job. I would still consider buying a used car but when you are paying $60,000.+ it does have liability. |
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01-21-2016, 12:58 PM | #77 |
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I miss being in the States, dealers take full advantage here in Gulf countries due to the monopoly system. We are pretty much stuck with one dealer.
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01-21-2016, 05:26 PM | #78 | |
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Not much for me to say about the GT4 except if you have the opportunity to get one...just do it. It is one of the best cars I have ever driven and I have driven my share of AMG, M, RS, and Porsches. (Although I feel the Z06 would be up there as well, but I havent driven one) The Carrera S is a nice car, but my brother has a 911 GTS (which is better). And after driving my brother's 911 GTS, the GT4 is still more exciting to me than the 911 GTS was. (Although I do love his car, especially how it looks!) The only 911 (at least from the 991.1) I would take over the GT4, would be: GT3, GT3RS, 911 Turbo. And with the turbo-4s coming in for the 718s, the GT4 is going to be highly sought after. No future 718 Cayman will ever sound as good as the outgoing GT4. But let's see if they stay with a NA engine in the next GT4... Heard they would... Regardless, the outgoing 981 platform, whether it's a Cayman S, GTS, or GT4, are going to becoming somewhat of classics IMO. I am personally very eager to read reviews of the 718, because the chassis itself is perfect, but the engine change is what is scaring everyone obviously. Hopefully, Porsche makes lemonade out of the lemons the government has handed them! Last edited by csbear; 01-21-2016 at 06:02 PM.. |
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01-22-2016, 04:27 AM | #79 | |
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The car is basically new and the statement about the Cayman being double the M2, that's bogus. Over exaggerated unless If you want every single option known to mankind. But if you are trying to match what you need and the best options that have been recommended by people - it ends up being only a few options. And deals can be made and you can get this car -2015 year for 60K. Hardly a "double" the price. The prices are not that far off. If you are talking GT4 or even GTS or boxster spyder then you are looking at 20k more but for an S. The S with under 4K miles still matches well with the BMW M2. and performs about the same. Some people aren't pricing a new Cayman they are just pricing a Cayman (New or used). For Used, you get easily get a deal. That's the point. If you want to pay for new because you feel like it, go ahead. But deals have can be made so let's not bring price into this. And it wasn't hard for me to find two alternatives to M2 (incase M2 goes sour) Let's just look at it from performance and intangibles other than price. |
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01-22-2016, 05:16 AM | #80 | |
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i went from a 135 to a 1M and there was a significant difference in handling, agility, dynamics, and overal feel. I was originally NOT going to jump into a 1M but it was just so good in every way that it felt i had to. I've driven an M235 before and found it to be soft and uncommunicative....i'm sure the M2 won't be like that. |
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01-22-2016, 08:36 AM | #81 | |
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It's dumb to compare a new car to a used car. In a year or so the M2 will be in the low to mid 40's used and a Cayman S that is new today will be in the low to mid 60's used so the gap is always around 20K. Go to the Porsche website and do a nationwide search on 981 Cayman S with under 5K miles, the cheapest 2014's are still in the low 60's which is still 10K more than a new M2 today and that's comparing a new BMW to a 2 year old Porsche. The current model year Cayman S like new with a few thousand miles just doesn't exist for anywhere near the price of a new M2. The cheapest 2016 Cayman S with under 5K miles is 72K+ right now and the cheapest 2015 Cayman S with under 5K miles is mid 60's. You just can't ignore price in the equation. Last edited by CosmosMpower; 01-22-2016 at 08:53 AM.. |
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01-22-2016, 11:39 AM | #82 |
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01-22-2016, 07:14 PM | #83 |
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01-23-2016, 04:59 AM | #84 | |||
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01-23-2016, 10:17 AM | #85 | |
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If that doesn't materialize, do you recommend skipping the Glossy "GTS exterior PKG" and the PSM for the X73, sport tailpipe and light design PKG? They have two white GTSs left. thanks |
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01-23-2016, 03:30 PM | #86 | |
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As for the suspension (X73 vs PASM): - I prefer a lower stance, and firmer suspension, especially on a true sports car, so I would go with the X73 suspension on the GTS. That being said, I also don't feel PASM is that much more comfortable than the X73. Someone would have to be pretty picky honestly to get PASM over X73 on a car like the Cayman GTS. I personally couldn't tell a big difference on the GT4 PASM when I had Sport vs Normal chassis. BUT, that may be because the GT4 suspension is pretty sporty regardless of setting. It might be more noticeable on the track, but I haven't tracked yet. On Rennlist, from what other Cayman owners who have X73 say, there hasn't been any complaints at all, and only comments like, "I wouldn't have it any other way." It seems people who go for X73 over PASM are pretty decisive, as they just want the sportiest stance and ride, period. Although, a lot depends on your roads as well, but if you want the best handling on a GTS, get the X73. The Cayman is a world-class handling sports car, so why not get the best handling suspension if it is available? GTS exterior pkg: - The Glossy GTS exterior pkg does look nice, but you won't miss it I feel. And it looks like you have seen it with and without I assume. The GT4 itself does not have any glossy exterior option and it still looks great... I would even further say that the matte exterior bits lend to a more hardcore, sporty look. You are more likely to see rock chips (unless you Xpel) on the glossy exterior though. But still a cool aesthetic option... Light Design pkg: - On Rennlist people seem to be liking this pkg, even on a track-oriented car like the GT4. So although it is also an aesthetic preference, since it is packaged with the X73 (as you mention above), I would be ok with it. Sport Tailpipe: - Minor addition, but since it is also packaged with X73, that's fine. Sooooooo, if it is "GTS exterior and PASM" VS. "X73, Sport Tailpipe, and Light Design," I would go with the second list (X73, sport tailpipe, light design). HOWEVER, if for any reason you can't, there is nothing wrong with the first option as well. The clincher for me really is the X73 suspension, and hey, you are getting a really cool interior option with the light design pkg as well! And if you are not a fan of wheel gap, the X73 will improve the exterior aesthetic anyway! #4 is reasonable on the waitlist for the GT4. I feel Porsche will continue the GT4 lineup just like the GT3. The demand for the GT4 was huge, and sport car fans have been clamoring for a GT Cayman for a long time. I was number #3 on the list and actually moved up since people do drop out. You may have to wait it out a little, but it is worth it! But at #4 (even #3)you may not hear anything for many months, keep that in mind if you are looking to buy soon. The GT4 Rennlist forum is the best place to keep abreast of allocations. The ONE option on the GT4 you should get if you get an allocation: the lightweight carbon bucket seats. Even if you have to give up other options you really want. You could do a stripper GT4 with the LWBS as the only option and you are good to go. (I don't have them due to the limited supply at the time). It is the most coveted option on the GT4 bar none and probably one of the most coveted Porsche options for enthusiasts. They are beautiful seats and obviously very functional. The interior of the car changes completely with them. Even if you are not tracking, consider them because resale value will definitely be higher for bucket seats vs the 18 or 2 way seats. The bucket seats are around $5,000 as a GT4 option, but I believe $18,000 or so retail if you for some reason got them separately!! Last edited by csbear; 01-23-2016 at 03:39 PM.. |
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