10-20-2015, 09:08 PM | #23 |
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Thanks for starting this thread, this is the same decision I'm gonna have to make in about a year--but it's never too early to start trying to figure it out. It's nice to see others going through the same pros and cons.
Initially I was leaning towards the M2, but as the details came out it became less appetizing (crap colors, no cf roof, no M seats, etc), and I've also gone back to the drawing board on our two-car strategy (was formerly thinking of getting wife a 328GT as family/touring car and eventually M2 to replace my M235i). Now I'm considering an alternate plan where we get the F80 first to act as our family/touring car and then a year later get an i3 to replace the M235i as our city/local commute car. So many decisions and possibilities One of the key things is how much fun the F87 vs F80 will be. I *love* my M235i, both in daily driving and hooning it up on country backroads a few times a month, and I want my next fun car to bring more power and a tighter suspension. One question I have that maybe some of y'all have looked into is, apples to apples, what is the weight difference with 6MT F87 vs F80? I'm sure the F80 will clearly win in terms of power-to-weight, but there is something to be said for the agility that comes with lower weight. My other question, that I can't find answered anywhere, is: are the 'vents' with the M2 badges behind the front wheel arch real, functional vents? Or is it just totally fake? If it's fake, that would really, really bother me. We already know the rear fender vent-like depressions are fake since they are filled with the world's most obnoxious reflectors. :thumb down Thanks in advance for any insight and info y'all might have.
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10-20-2015, 09:16 PM | #24 | |
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How do you like the 6MT? I am seriously considering it for the two if I go that route. My dealer has a bunch of M235is on the lot and I was going to go and test drive one for at least some comparison. Oh well... |
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10-20-2015, 09:16 PM | #25 |
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I was on the fence for a while. I've had a deposit in and a #1 slot for 6 months. Then I started lusting after the m3 in Daytona violet. Dealer offered me an allocation and we negotiated price. However, after much thought I declined as I felt the car was too big. I've had an e36, 2 e46s, and an e90. They kept getting bigger. Then I visited a local auto cross. I didn't run but several friends who I go to HPDEs were there. There was 2 M3s and an M4. They got whipped by many of the cars out there. They were out of place - too big and certainly not nimble. Maybe awkward and clumsy are the better words to describe it. Seeing this just reconfirmed that I made the right call in declining the M3 allocation. I know I know that auto cross is not what the m3 was made for. That said the e46 m3s were very competitive at auto cross and also track worthy and street worthy. While I don't plan on auto crossing the M2 you can bet it will be at the track right after break in.
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10-20-2015, 09:36 PM | #26 |
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I love the manual in my M235i. It's a daily pleasure getting to use it, I can't imagine having the car without it. Of course I'd never buy a performance car with anything besides a manual, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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10-20-2015, 09:51 PM | #27 | |
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That's one of the reasons I was trying to get specific details about the weights, because I see a lot of people talking about the agility of the M2, but does that just come from he smaller body and wheelbase? Or is it that much lighter? It uses the same suspensions as the F80/82, right? Just trying to figure out what is making the difference.
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10-20-2015, 10:00 PM | #28 |
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My guess is that the m3 or m4 will out perform the m2 on most tracks because of its power advantage. The m2 may out perform on others. Shorter tight tracks will tend to favor the m2. Larger tracks will tend to favor the m3. Which one 'wins'? Who knows. I do expect though that the m2 will outmaneuver the m3 simply due to its size. I would expect that it will out perform the m3 at auto cross. Several 135s killed the m3s and m4s at the auto cross.
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10-20-2015, 10:08 PM | #29 |
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Think I may be leaning towards leasing the f80. Love that there is more color options/better interior, HK standard, CF roof, etc. Deals are pretty damn good right now too. Hard to pass up.
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10-20-2015, 10:15 PM | #30 | |
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With M2 I could find myself comparing to M3 on things but if I went M3 would there be anything on the M2 id wish I had besides smaller size? The only thing I can think of is if it gets the street cred and hailed by the journos as the better drivers car. Even then you could just say yeah but I've got the better engine, seats and m mirrors |
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10-20-2015, 10:26 PM | #31 | |
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Clarkson: "It is... pretty much perfect... Why don't I have one of these cars?" Harris: "The saloon is definitely the M3 of choice." |
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10-21-2015, 07:50 AM | #32 | |||
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As for the vent, they are non-functional, but there are so many M's that have this. If we were nit picky, then the M2 really should not have quad exhausts at all either. There's absolutely no need for it. Quote:
On a proper track, I expect that's where the M3/4 will come alive and the size wouldn't matter as much. It also remains to be seen how good of a job BMW did with the M2's cooling, as this is very stout on the S55. Having said that, I foresee the M2 being a super fun car at the track and autox. Quote:
However, I think there would just be too much overlap considering I already have an E92. Personally, I really don't have an interest in the E30 M3 for what they are going for now. Far too expensive IMHO. And the M2 CSL would be amazing, but I already know that if it comes out, it'll be out of my budget and chances are it'll be DCT only. Another thought about the M2 while we are at it. I don't think it would be too difficult to find one lightly used in a couple of years optioned out the way I like. I know almost for a fact that an F80 how I'd order it would be nearly impossible. Austin Yellow (rare), cloth (rare), LED AND 6MT (less common than DCT) while having a CF roof. That might as well be 1/1. The odds would be even more impossible should you decide on going with Indvidual. On the other hand, finding a low mileage LBB/6MT/LED (if they offer them) should not be hard at all. Especially considering all the interiors are identical.
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10-21-2015, 10:13 AM | #33 | |
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The M2 is only 2 kg lighter than the M3/M4. Source: http://www.bimmertoday.de/2015/10/14...ps-sportcoupe/ I'm leaning towards a 2017 M2.
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10-21-2015, 03:20 PM | #34 |
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I'm in this boat too. If the M2 isn't a pain to buy (e.g., marks ups, limited allocations) I'm probably going that route. Which means it will probably a year before I can purchase an M2 on my terms. If that is the case I may just purchase an F80 now and revisit the M2 in a few years. Really can't go wrong.
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10-22-2015, 05:20 PM | #35 | |
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Other friends, E46 330s, E36 M3s and E46 328s (heavily, track modified) seemed much quicker and, frankly, more fun for the tight, technical nature of the auto-X. I did a few passenger rides with them and the smaller size and lower power seemed like a better match for that specific event. That said, the F80, at the BMW school, owned the track and was a sheer joy. My favorite event and favorite car of all the events and platforms we got to drive. While either car will be a daily driver and weekend racer, I will definitely be doing more auto-Xing than full on track driving, hence I keep going back to the M2. Colors and what not, I feel like the M2 was slightly sold short on the current interior and "M" details but I can get over it. However, I am a little turned off by the non-functioning vents and the non-M seats, but again, if it is fun and fast, who gives a shit. Seeing the newly posted interior pictures of the LBB, it is the first "lively" color that I really like. My M3 is built with Silverstone which I think is so classy though. Another thing, and this comes with the process of buying a car, between the USAA discounts on the F80 and the BMWCCA membership discounts (which roughly equate to one another), I am now back in the boat of not having a financial priority. Obviously, even at MSRP, the M2 will be cheaper. I plan on a few options, but those are largely going to be the diffuser and Alcantara wheel, and then whatever performance options scream out at me. I am set, dead set though on not paying above MSRP for the M2 and if someone tries to hose me, then I walk. Anyone closer to making a decision? Any ideas when press cars will start being circulated so we can start reading reviews? Last edited by DDR MFS; 10-22-2015 at 10:32 PM.. |
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10-24-2015, 08:03 PM | #36 |
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The more I drive the F80, the more I'm loving it. This one was a 6spd and had the M-Performance exhaust which sounded damn great. And this car is just stupid fast. Driving it back to back with the E92 really showed what torque meant.
If I'm not getting the M2, The F80 is definitely going to be the one for me. Oh my friend in the GT4 was also there. This picture is what my dream garage would look like: The M2 has until late Summer 2016/Fall 2017 to convince me that it's worthy of a spot in the garage
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10-24-2015, 09:32 PM | #37 | |
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Do you have 18s or 19s? I have 19s on the "is" and I'm in the 18 camp for the F80. Love the look, more contact for HPDE, and better ride for DD. Not to mention the potholes here have given me a few scares. Suggestion? How is your car optioned? I plan on only adding M Suspension and DCT. Extended leather and Silverstone round it out. I'll add the Alcantara wheel later. Was the M exhaust a factory or dealer option?
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10-24-2015, 09:59 PM | #38 |
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So, to answer some of my own questions here are some comparisons of size, weight, and power between F87 M2 and both F80 M3 and F82 M4. All of this info is direct from BMW, weights are BMW-stated curb weights for US--all are with manual transmissions because who cares about anything else?
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M2 M4 Dif Weight 3450 3530 M2 is 80lbs (2%) lighter Height 55.5 54.4 M4 is 1.1in (2%) lower Wheelbase 106 110.7 M2 is 4.7in (4%) shorter Length 176.2 183.9 M2 is 7.7in (4%) shorter Width 73 73.6 M4 is .6in (1%) wider Power 365 425 M4 has 60hp (16%) advantage Torque 343 406 M4 has 63lb-ft (18%) advantage Code:
M2 M3 Dif Weight 3450 3540 M2 is 90lbs (2%) lighter Height 55.5 56.3 M2 is 1.1in (1%) lower Wheelbase 106 110.7 M2 is 4.7in (4%) shorter Length 176.2 183.9 M2 is 7.7in (4%) shorter Width 73 73.9 M3 is .9in (1%) wider Power 365 425 M3 has 60hp (16%) advantage Torque 343 406 M3 has 63lb-ft (18%) advantage I know enthusiasts really fetishize smaller cars and are outspoken opponents of models always getting bigger, so I guess that explains why everyone has already pronounced the M2 as *the* model for enthusiasts and driving purity--even though no one has actually driven one yet. Just based on the numbers, it feels like crowing the M2 as the purist (current) performance BMW is a bit premature. Does a 4% shorter wheelbase really make it more fun to drive than having 16% more power? Anyway, these numbers, as well as my other gripes in my previous post pretty much have me looking at an M3 instead of an M2. Outside of costing a lot more, doesn't seem like there are really any compromises going with the M3, and much gained.
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10-24-2015, 10:08 PM | #39 | |
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I will say that I think the three and the DCT are matched in near perfect harmony. If I go three, it's definitely a DCT. Two is more a manual for me. Also concluding that you can't go wrong with either car. F-ing decisions...
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10-24-2015, 10:57 PM | #40 | |
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There is definitely a lot gained for that $15K for the M3. I'm still indecisive too... I am more drawn to the M3, but the M2 just feels so "young and fun" like every day and every drive will be a hoot. Lastly...the M2 rear fenders are so good! Last edited by G8rGrl; 10-24-2015 at 11:07 PM.. |
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10-25-2015, 08:39 AM | #41 |
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Yeh, I am planning to go with my wife to the dealer and we are both going to drive a F80 and a M235i to see what works size wise. I could go either way right now after seeing the write up on the M2 first impressions recently posted in the M2 Discussion Forum.
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10-25-2015, 09:47 AM | #42 | |
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As for the Motor, I might be disappointed with tuning potential of the M2. I would suspect the trap speed of the M2 would be near 110mph and the M3/4 is near 120mph. To me the power of the S55 vs N55 cannot be overlooked... Perhaps the M2's forged crank and S55 style pistons will allow for more boost, even beyond the M235's N55 potential? Some hear will flame me for talking about trap speeds stating that these cars are not meant to drag race, however all of the cars being compared will have similar handling limits. My point is that the S55 cars will likely be significantly faster. I lightly used F80 M3 might look pretty good after the M2 reviews are out and all the dust settles.
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10-25-2015, 10:47 AM | #43 | ||
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As for the wheels, I'm very torn. I prefer the looks and weight of the 18s obviously. Plus knowing myself pretty well, it wouldn't be long before I started looking at aftermarket options. What's great about the 19s is that you are getting a forged wheel (so are the 18s), but you have the option to fit 275/295 on them. With the 18s, there are really not many choices. With the 19s, I could turn them into all season wheels if I want to, or put some Cup2's if I want to. When I go to order mine, I plan on getting: Austin Yellow/Cloth/6MT/LED headlights/Maybe 19s. Very low optioned. The exhaust was port installed, and was a whopping $4900 Oh I also want to mention that I test drove an M4 with 19s and passive shocks and the car rode fine. It wasn't even remotely what I'd consider stiff personally, especially when you compare it to my E36 that's set on full stiff Quote:
And while I agree that the M2 flares look good (better than the M4 anyway), one just cannot ignore the crazy flares they decided to put on the F80. It blows both of them away Ah, decisions decisions. That is the way to go, I'm telling you. Everyone on the fence about the M2 and M3 should definitely do that. When I drove the M3 and M235i back to back, I found the 2er to fit me "better". It's a very classic BMW driving experience IMHO. The reason I'm most likely sticking with the F80 is because I already have an E36, and that in itself is a very typical BMW driving experience.
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10-25-2015, 10:57 AM | #44 | |
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